[Uriel]

Originally Posted by PUMBA

Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go at you Uriel, I'm not, I'm just putting points across, but with your comments about squats, it sounds good on paper but the proof is in the pudding I believe.

I can't think of a Pro who has not been pictured doing squats.
Tom Platz said squats were best and until someone with legs as big as his tells me they suck!! I'll stick with Mr Platz's advice.

For every pro you find doing squats you'll find two using machines. If we're on a quoting spree than just go ahead and ask Dorian Yates what he thinks of squats. He'll tell you what many people will: they are good for people with the proper body alignments. Platz had insane genetics and squats built him huge quads. Then again he also did sets of 30+ reps and his quads grew nicely out of it...But for the great majority of others squats are a posterior chain builder, not a quad builder. Hell, any powerlifter will tell you that a proper back squat is all about glutes and hams.

[Uriel]

Originally Posted by PUMBA

Your opinion is welcome, I would just feel silly telling a Sports Injury Dr they are wrong and then telling my self that I was wrong feeling no pain after having my forearms worked on.....I am not quoting books or anything here just actual and factual events......As you keep using the word MOSTLY you must agree that there are some cases where this is not correct. Thats why I said you were both right because it happens both ways that you two described YOU saying from Triceps and Peanut saying Forearms I have had it over the years from both LooooL lucky me.

Yes, some forearm muscles originate from the humerus. But they don't even touch the elbow joint. Any pain you might feel in those muscles, although it can be felt in the forearm area, is nothing like the pain of tennis elbow (which has nothing to do with muscles).

[Uriel]

And by the way the pain some people feel in their forearms whenever they use a straigth bar for curls/wrist curls is usualy due to curved bones (hand supine, the ulna and radius curve out slightly) wich cause instability and therefore pain. Again, nothing to do with muscles and overtraining.

[Ironslave]

Uriel please stop trying to sound smart when you're for the most part cuting and pasting from other sites. Look at the difference between a "bodybuilding" squat with narrow stance and a powerlifting squat where they are almost doing a split. Studies show that the squat is primarily quads until below 90 degrees, that is rediculous to say its not a quad exercise.

How are huge compound lifts overrated, when sissy overhead tricep rope extensions are underrated. You really think 15 lb dumbell cuban rotations is gonna selectively target and give you a "freakier" infraspinatus than 250 lb wide grip pull downs? give me a break.

Finally, please tell me how going to failure is counterproductive from a physiological standpoint, and will lead to extreme CNS faituge. Ive had this argument before, and i have substantial evidence for my disagreeing with you.

[Uriel]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Uriel please stop trying to sound smart when you're for the most part cuting and pasting from other sites. Look at the difference between a "bodybuilding" squat with narrow stance and a powerlifting squat where they are almost doing a split. Studies show that the squat is primarily quads until below 90 degrees, that is rediculous to say its not a quad exercise.

How are huge compound lifts overrated, when sissy overhead tricep rope extensions are underrated. You really think 15 lb dumbell cuban rotations is gonna selectively target and give you a "freakier" infraspinatus than 250 lb wide grip pull downs? give me a break.

Finally, please tell me how going to failure is counterproductive from a physiological standpoint, and will lead to extreme CNS faituge. Ive had this argument before, and i have substantial evidence for my disagreeing with you.

1st The pasting comment is just ridiculous
2nd You're totaly missing the point. I never said squats didn't build the quads. They just don't do it nearly as well as they're hyped up to. They build other muscles instead.
3rd To the infraspinatus coment...that's comparing two totaly different exercises. Wanting infraspinatus growth out of wide-grip pulldowns is almost the same as wanting biceps growth of bench presses.

AS far as the failure part, it isn't counterproductive for muscle gains in the short term. But on the long run it is because going to failure is going to limit your training frequency. And for strength gains failure isn't good at all. Ever seen a powerlifter training? Strength gains come a huge deal from the CNS. You DO NOT want it burned up when your goal is strength.

[Nothin' but a peanut!!]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Uriel please stop trying to sound smart when you're for the most part cuting and pasting from other sites. Look at the difference between a "bodybuilding" squat with narrow stance and a powerlifting squat where they are almost doing a split. Studies show that the squat is primarily quads until below 90 degrees, that is rediculous to say its not a quad exercise.

How are huge compound lifts overrated, when sissy overhead tricep rope extensions are underrated. You really think 15 lb dumbell cuban rotations is gonna selectively target and give you a "freakier" infraspinatus than 250 lb wide grip pull downs? give me a break.

Finally, please tell me how going to failure is counterproductive from a physiological standpoint, and will lead to extreme CNS faituge. Ive had this argument before, and i have substantial evidence for my disagreeing with you.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA LMFAO

lol man i laughed my ass off when i read this lol

man u always gotta have a go if you dont agree

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Finally, please tell me how going to failure is counterproductive from a physiological standpoint, and will lead to extreme CNS faituge. Ive had this argument before, and i have substantial evidence for my disagreeing with you.

Hey Hdogg. I train this way anyway, but could you post the evidence for this or the link where you've already covered it as I would like to read it! Cheers buddy!

[Ironslave]

Originally Posted by Uriel

3rd To the infraspinatus coment...that's comparing two totaly different exercises. Wanting infraspinatus growth out of wide-grip pulldowns is almost the same as wanting biceps growth of bench presses.

No its not, at all. The biceps do not serve as any part of a bench pressing, while pulldowns and chin ups absolutely recruit the rotator cuff muscles as stabilizers, you gotta be kidding me if you think chins will only target "upper lats". You really need to get off this whole "shaping" kick, theoretially yes there is still debate on this issue, however i can assure you the effects will most likely be minor, and i guarantee you will not add significant size to your infraspinatus. Why not try this exercise for shaping of the vastus medialis??

AS far as the failure part, it isn't counterproductive for muscle gains in the short term. But on the long run it is because going to failure is going to limit your training frequency. And for strength gains failure isn't good at all. Ever seen a powerlifter training? Strength gains come a huge deal from the CNS. You DO NOT want it burned up when your goal is strength.

Define "burned up"? Describe the physiological pathology behind this "burning up". You realize that when enducing a MVC you enhance release of pre-synaptic neurotransmitter release (acetylcholine), resuling in an increased action potential and increase of seepage of calcium from the sarcoplasmic reticulum which leads to a delayed/impaired reuptake, thus producing more powerful contractions. As well as full motor unit activation (MUA) is achieved upon completion of a MVC?

How will failure limit your training frequency? Will doing an extra 1-2 reps to failure limit frequency that much? How is it not good for strength? A proper training program plans around ways to dissipate fatigue, with back off weeks or tapering. For the most part, training to failure is productive.

[Nothin' but a peanut!!]

awesomly put big man i always sucked in tests how describing action potentials wish it was tta good!

to me a set that isnt maxed is wasted
warm up sets you dont fail on they are the only sets
wheather its 2 rep sets or 15 rep sets you shouild go to fialure i mean really why wouldnt you? and IF you felt like ur systems were overloading (never had it) then why dont you take a week off? whats the point of training if you're not gonna go in there and know you pushed yourself to your limits - not but exceeded them - and then get out to recover??

[PUMBA]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Uriel please stop trying to sound smart when you're for the most part cuting and pasting from other sites. Look at the difference between a "bodybuilding" squat with narrow stance and a powerlifting squat where they are almost doing a split. Studies show that the squat is primarily quads until below 90 degrees, that is rediculous to say its not a quad exercise.

How are huge compound lifts overrated, when sissy overhead tricep rope extensions are underrated. You really think 15 lb dumbell cuban rotations is gonna selectively target and give you a "freakier" infraspinatus than 250 lb wide grip pull downs? give me a break.

Finally, please tell me how going to failure is counterproductive from a physiological standpoint, and will lead to extreme CNS faituge. Ive had this argument before, and i have substantial evidence for my disagreeing with you.

He is only a pup (16 or 17 yr old). But since you have already shot him down in flames about squats it is pointless me even trying to put it any better (doubt I can anyway loool).

Quote Uriel:Yes, some forearm muscles originate from the humerus. But they don't even touch the elbow joint. Any pain you might feel in those muscles, although it can be felt in the forearm area, is nothing like the pain of tennis elbow (which has nothing to do with muscles).

AGAIN my young friend, Muscles have shit all to do with the pain I am talking about.....TENDONS & LIGAMENTS remember. One minute your talking about the pain in my muscles (i did not say this) and then you say it is nothing to do with the muscles CORRECT to a point.

Are you trying to say that during resistance training only the muscles are placed under stress and NOT TENDONS & LIGAMENTS??? Tell me thats not true please, otherwise how do we snap TENDONS & LIGAMENTS during intense exercise.

See my point....as peanut said, forearms can be placed in an overtrained state...look beyond muscles and attachment, because TENDONS & LIGAMENTS are also part of your anatomy.....have a look in your text book or whatever a 16yr old or 17 yr old quotes from and you will see this.

Uriel you have great input (sometimes) but seriously I was training and squatting when you were a sperm, so please don't talk about stuff you read in a book get out and experience it. I have been told by medical and training professionals in person where my pain comes form.

You are wrong Peanut was correct be a grown up and admit it PLEASE!!

[Uriel]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

No its not, at all. The biceps do not serve as any part of a bench pressing

Actualy they do. The biceps originate from the scapula, they are a major stabilizer in benching. Ever noticed how your biceps flex when you press, in any angle?

And I won't lie to you. As far as the chemistry part of the CNS goes I don't know much. But if it'll take a few more hours of reading to prove my point I don't mind doing so. Learning is good.

Originally Posted by PUMBA

AGAIN my young friend, Muscles have shit all to do with the pain I am talking about.....TENDONS & LIGAMENTS remember. One minute your talking about the pain in my muscles (i did not say this) and then you say it is nothing to do with the muscles CORRECT to a point.

Are you trying to say that during resistance training only the muscles are placed under stress and NOT TENDONS & LIGAMENTS??? Tell me thats not true please, otherwise how do we snap TENDONS & LIGAMENTS during intense exercise.

Yes, the tendons also work. But unless you're doing your wrist culrs in a pretty odd angle that requires your elbow movers to stabilize, the tendons under stress are those at the wrist joint, and ligaments at the wrist and hand joint.

And I've been there before and I fail to see how my age is of any concern to this matter. It's simply a low blow that people often use - he's young so he knows shit. I guess all the studying I do is simply pointless, all I gotta do is wait 'till I'm 40. Even if I spend all day watching nothing but touchdowns by the time I'm older I'll automaticly be a genious...

So let's all just stereotype, shall we? I'm a teenager so all I care for are chicks and beer and I spend most of my week high. And you guys are bodybuilders so you're all as smart as a rock.

[Nothin' but a peanut!!]

yep! we're all stereotypes here urinal!