[Gopher]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=375215

I realize this isn't a bodybuilders routine per say, but am wondering what you guys think of it. My physique is doing pretty well overall, but I have some weak points I really need to cure (i.e. upper legs) and I think that a program like this, which would have me squatting 3x a week might be a great cure. Additionally, I suffer occasionally from a sort of 'fitness identity crisis': wanting primarily to bodybuild but being unable to refrain from setting strength goals along the way (i.e. wanting a 405 bench press/600 deadlift by summer).

My primary concerns in adopting a routine like this are as follows:

Its a 3 day a week program for 9 weeks and I'm used to getting in 6-7 days a week/being on a cutting diet. I'm at a little under 8% bf and though I intend to start bulking next week I'm worried that a dramatic diet change coupled with significantly less anerabic gym time will lead to fat pilling on quick.

Additionally, the dual factor which I am hoping to adopt seems pretty brutal--right now its my intention to throw cardio/calves/traps in at least 2x a week, but I'm wondering if a program like where I'm squatting/deadlifting 3x a week is going to leave my body in any condition to do additional training.

Third, Similar to my first concern, I'm not sure how I would go about structuring my nutrion around a workout like this. That is, I want to bulk cleanly (don't wanna get higher then ~12%bf) but wouldn't know how to structure my meals when I had THAT many days of innactivity a week (assuming more then 3 days a week is not doable).

Info on me:

Pictures of my physique are posted in the members picture forum--based on the feedback I got, this routine sounds like it would be a great way to hit my weak points.

Additionally I believe myself to be an endomorph am just under 200lbs and (as this is really a strength routine I feel this is relevant) my numbers are as follows.

Bench Press Max: 1x 350lbs (405 goal)
Deadlift: 3x 460 (600lb goal)
Squat Max: 4x 295 (I don't really give a shit about the numbers, I just want my legs to be proportional)

Thats about all I can think of thats relevant on the topic--what do yall think?

[Diesel]

first off, I think squatting 3 times per week is a very bad idear. Deadlifts should be done AT MOST every 10 days. normally what i do is just do deadlifts every 2 weeks (14 days). I think combining powerlifting and bodybuilding is a great idea. I actually do it myself. I would still stick to working each body part once per week. if your intensity is high enough and you eat right, you will experience great gains. As far as you bulking and gaining too much fat. If you eat cleanly, which it sounds like you will, you should be fine. to maximize your gains I would recommend to just do walking for cardio. Unless you also want to get a good cardiovascular workout, you could throw in one HIT day. I say to do walking b/c walking is very good when it comes to burning fat.

as far as you saying that your upper legs are behind, thats a toughy. my guess is you maybe not getting deep enough in squats. it could also be genetics. hope this helped

[Q80_MuscleHed]

Originally Posted by Diesel

first off, I think squatting 3 times per week is a very bad idear. Deadlifts should be done AT MOST every 10 days. normally what i do is just do deadlifts every 2 weeks (14 days). I think combining powerlifting and bodybuilding is a great idea. I actually do it myself. I would still stick to working each body part once per week. if your intensity is high enough and you eat right, you will experience great gains. As far as you bulking and gaining too much fat. If you eat cleanly, which it sounds like you will, you should be fine. to maximize your gains I would recommend to just do walking for cardio. Unless you also want to get a good cardiovascular workout, you could throw in one HIT day. I say to do walking b/c walking is very good when it comes to burning fat.

as far as you saying that your upper legs are behind, thats a toughy. my guess is you maybe not getting deep enough in squats. it could also be genetics. hope this helped

i'm with diesel .. i do the same things he said

[Johnny Bravo]

the 5x5 is a great program and it's good way to add some strength and size.

Doing deads and squats 3 times a weeks can easily be done and won't be to much for you. Even a Hypertrophy only program as HST has squats and deads in it, and that's a fullbody program 3 times a week.
Powerlifters and Olympic lifters do that several times a week and much heavier than a bodybuilder would do. And even alot of Olympic lifters train several times a day. I know they don't train for hypertrophy but alot of them are pretty damn big.

[Ironslave]

Gotta agree with JB, the 5x5 is a great program, ad yes squats & deads can be performed frequently, but going max effort on them all 3x a week probably isnt a good idea. I think this is a great routine, but it is definately steered to the advanced trainee.

[Gopher]

I just wanted to update the thread:

I've been on this program now for almost 4 weeks and its led to some real size improvements. My strength hasn't progressed as well as I'd hoped (I believe its because I adopted this routine immediately after cutting/high rep-low weight training) but its getting decent again.

Low rep/heavy weight squatting 3 times a week has already led to substantial thickening of the upper legs which is rounding me out nicely (legs have been lagging for some time now). Also, the program itself is starting to wreak havoc on my body and joint pain (especially lower back) is constant.

All in all the gains seem to be real and the program, despite its unconventional nature, seems effective. I am looking forward to shredding up again and seeing how much real muscle I'm adding!

[philosopher]

it can be done but like hdaogg said... dont train all 3 time with max effort. Slow down and dont overtrain youreself.

[Rocky]

I've just started to incorporate 5 x 5 training on certain exercises on certain days, glad to hear it's going well with you. 3 x squats/deads a week sounds harsh. It'll be interesting to see how long your body can keep this up whilst still making gains!
Good luck man -keep us updated!

[Gopher]

actually just to clarify, the squats are indeed 3x weekly, but deadlifts are only once per week. Still pretty friggin' brutal, and I've started using a belt for my squats--the volume has just been tearing my lower back apart.

I am definitely making real muscle gains--I'm up a total of about 13 pounds right now, but also adopted this program at the same time I quit cutting/began bulking and started a creatine cycle.

I've got stretch marks going (unfortunately) and my upper legs and lats have thickened up dramatically.

Will keep you posted.

[eli80cal]

We did a program like this with football. It worked great, and we also had a would clean a few times a week. We also would throw in a 3x3 week every month or so, and this helps to avoid plateauing. Glad to hear its working for you.

[canablistic_Turnip]

When using a powerlifting program. Understand that you are going to hit a plateau quickly. I Used to weightlift in highschool and powerlift. (seemed to go hand in hand). We would follow a similar program for 3 weeks then take a weeks layoff (no weights what so ever).

It worked and our team one the state champs in all divisions. (except mens to young lol)

The key is to understand that your body does not have endless reserves to recuperate from this type of trainning. 3 weeks is the max to stay on this type of program, otherwise it becomes counter productive to strength gains.

If you hit a plateau early or start to feel fatigue (eg muscular sorness before workouts) rack the weight up go home and take the week off.)

Trainning does not equal muscle gains (strength)
Rest is when you grow!

Good luck and train smart

[MaKaVeLi]

i'm actually seriously considering doing this program...sounds like it could really produce some results

[Gopher]

canablistic,

Some very good points you make and I can see that being very true for most. It seems the 5x5 program is actually kind of forumlated with what you say in mind--how it works on two essential 4 week programs with an easy week in the middle to deload and how the first of the two four week periods is also one that is typically underestimated weight wise.

I don't think plateuing is as much an issue for me right now though--I'm actually only just re-acheiving levels of strength I'd previously posessed. My last cutting routine/flex "big pump program" cycle left me pretty weak. I suspect the very high rep/volume program coupled with my super strict diet was more catabolic then I realized, and though I got pretty hard and low in BF from it, MUCH strength was lost...

The week before cutting I could benchpress 350 at least once at the top of a pyramid and yesterday (begining of week 4) I only just benched 305 for five reps (which a calculator computes to being about a 343lb one rep max). *shrug* As long as the muscle memory keeps holding up its end, I should have a ways to go befor plateauing occurs.

MaKaVeLi,

I really am loving this program. Its a very different way of lifting and my lower back aches ALL the time, but its been wonderful for putting serious lean mass on my upper legs quickly, and my lats are really comming out a lot more too. Additionally my delts are striated all the time (w/o flexing) which has been pretty exciting for me. My bulking diet hasn't been nearly as clean as I'd intended it to be (though I defintely have the caloric excess part down) and somehow I'm not putting on fat despite this only being a 3x a week workout (plus a day or two of cardio and abs). All in all I'm very pleased.

My spring break plans may have disolved for this year meaning I might not have to go back to cutting right after this routine to shred for late march--if this is the case, when this first 5x5 program is over (February) I'm going to take a light/low volume week to myself--play around with 1 rep maxes on my compounds, do some high rep isolation movements..just have a bit of medium intensity fun after which I'll jump back into a 5x5.

I set a goal for myself that I wanted a 405 bench press and 350 squat and 500 deadlift by this summer--hopefully the second 5x5 will put me there.