[gym_addict]

So if full body routine 3x a week gives as follows from from Ive found;

Training each muscle group every other day will keep the genes that encode for building muscle mass turned on longer, which could result in greater muscle growth than training each muscle every seven days. A whole-body training split also stimulates a large portion of the body's muscle mass. This leads to higher production of anabolic hormones, growth hormones and testosterone (which are important for stimulating muscle growth) than workouts that train fewer muscle groups. When it come to shredding bodyfat, no workout split is more conductive to that goal than a whole-body training split. Training all the major muscle groups revs up cellular processes in all those muscle cells, which increases metabolic rate for up to 48 hours after the workout is over. That means you'l burn more calories even while sitting around doing nothing.

So with that said...............HOW THE HELL DID SPLIT ROUTINES COME ABOUT????????????

[GRAVESY079]

splits prbly started for bringing up lagging body parts. Then realized, i could do this for every body part.

Also prbly could have started when some went from full body to a Push/Pull/Lower, and kept slicing and dicing till each had their own day.

or going twice a day.

[Determined 08]

Sorry to change the subject but I've noticed this alot. Your Henry Rollins quote is incorrect. Just letting ya know

[GRAVESY079]

"The iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The iron will always kick you the real deal. The iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends come and go, but 200 pounds is always 200 pounds."

-Henry Rollins

[aild54]

Splits probably came from things like DC training. You couldn't do a full body split DC style.

[monkeybiker]

I've found full body routines work best for myself. I would susspect it would work better for most people but the magazines seem to like to push the split routines so people do them.
When I tell people I do two full body workouts a week they reply with ''is that all'', yet I am quite a bit stronger then they are.

[miggitymags]

Originally Posted by gym_addict

...

Training each muscle group every other day will keep the genes that encode for building muscle mass turned on longer, which could result in greater muscle growth than training each muscle every seven days. A whole-body training split also stimulates a large portion of the body's muscle mass. This leads to higher production of anabolic hormones, growth hormones and testosterone (which are important for stimulating muscle growth) than workouts that train fewer muscle groups. When it come to shredding bodyfat, no workout split is more conductive to that goal than a whole-body training split. Training all the major muscle groups revs up cellular processes in all those muscle cells, which increases metabolic rate for up to 48 hours after the workout is over. That means you'l burn more calories even while sitting around doing nothing.

...

To an extent, I don't agree with any of this.. I get what they are implying - but there are many assumptions that are important and need to be in there.. If I gave that paragraph to a noob, he or she would completely misinterpret that.

- A full body training split doesn't necessarily "stimulate a large portion of the body's muscle mass. This leads to higher production of anabolic hormones, growth hormones and testosterone (which are important for stimulating muscle growth) than workouts that train fewer muscle groups".. What does stimulate a larger portion of the body (etc) and release of more GH (etc) is the MOVEMENTS of that split.. aka compound/multi-joint movements: deads, squats, cleans, snatches, etc.. You can't go in do curls, tri extensions, leg extensions, cable rows, chest presses, and expect results and "stimulate a large portion of the body (etc) and release of more GH (etc)".

- "When it come to shredding bodyfat, no workout split is more conductive to that goal than a whole-body training split. Training all the major muscle groups revs up cellular processes in all those muscle cells, which increases metabolic rate for up to 48 hours after the workout is over. That means you'l burn more calories even while sitting around doing nothing." .... Uh, no. Again, you need to incorporate compound/multi-joint movements with nearly max effort.. not to mention limiting rest periods.. Think about HIIT (which is essentially how they are comparing a full-body) and how much effort is applied, then you rest, and repeat with max effort again (such as in sprinting).. Again, a noob cant go in, do the movements I stated before, with 50% intensity and 3 minute down periods between sets...

Again, kind of obvious to us with experience, but just thought I'd point out a few key assumptions that need to be made..

In regards to splits, there will ALWAYS be 'new and innovative' splits popping up: DC, Westside, Wendler 5/3/1, Power/Hypertrophy, etc.. Those splits, just like full-body or standard once a week, are not for everyone.. You simply need to find what works for you and how you best respond. Perhaps a combination of two to add mass, strength, or break plateaus..

my 2 pennies.....

[rmike]

Cosign^^ There really isnt a "perfect Split that works for everybody". I think the best thing someone can do is to try different routines and give it a chance before deciding whether or not its working. There is no quick fix to finding whats best unless you get it, by chance, the first time you try a routine. This takes time but its what works for me.
I personally use a combo of things and jump on a upper/lower split every couple months but thats what I like to do.

[gym_addict]

Originally Posted by miggitymags

To an extent, I don't agree with any of this.. I get what they are implying - but there are many assumptions that are important and need to be in there.. If I gave that paragraph to a noob, he or she would completely misinterpret that.

- A full body training split doesn't necessarily "stimulate a large portion of the body's muscle mass. This leads to higher production of anabolic hormones, growth hormones and testosterone (which are important for stimulating muscle growth) than workouts that train fewer muscle groups".. What does stimulate a larger portion of the body (etc) and release of more GH (etc) is the MOVEMENTS of that split.. aka compound/multi-joint movements: deads, squats, cleans, snatches, etc.. You can't go in do curls, tri extensions, leg extensions, cable rows, chest presses, and expect results and "stimulate a large portion of the body (etc) and release of more GH (etc)".

- "When it come to shredding bodyfat, no workout split is more conductive to that goal than a whole-body training split. Training all the major muscle groups revs up cellular processes in all those muscle cells, which increases metabolic rate for up to 48 hours after the workout is over. That means you'l burn more calories even while sitting around doing nothing." .... Uh, no. Again, you need to incorporate compound/multi-joint movements with nearly max effort.. not to mention limiting rest periods.. Think about HIIT (which is essentially how they are comparing a full-body) and how much effort is applied, then you rest, and repeat with max effort again (such as in sprinting).. Again, a noob cant go in, do the movements I stated before, with 50% intensity and 3 minute down periods between sets...

Again, kind of obvious to us with experience, but just thought I'd point out a few key assumptions that need to be made..

In regards to splits, there will ALWAYS be 'new and innovative' splits popping up: DC, Westside, Wendler 5/3/1, Power/Hypertrophy, etc.. Those splits, just like full-body or standard once a week, are not for everyone.. You simply need to find what works for you and how you best respond. Perhaps a combination of two to add mass, strength, or break plateaus..

my 2 pennies.....

The exercises in the routine are mainly compounds so that would release more GH test etc and why are you refering to NOOBS? Im talkin bout a routine in general with more evidence behind to support muscle growth, its not who or what type of person uses it!?!?!

[miggitymags]

Originally Posted by gym_addict

The exercises in the routine are mainly compounds so that would release more GH test etc and why are you refering to NOOBS? Im talkin bout a routine in general with more evidence behind to support muscle growth, its not who or what type of person uses it!?!?!

Re-read my post, bro..

You say "the exercises in the routine are mainly compounds".. but where, in your original post, does it say that or even reference movements? It doesn't.

I'm not disagreeing with the statement b/c I understand what they are implying. But if you handed that statement (and the statement only with no movements to accompany it) to a noob, it is very misleading.

And by the way, what you posted was a statement - there was no evidence to support any of that. If there was, you didn't post it (again). And YES, it does matter who or what type of person uses it -- each split SHOULD be designed for the individual. Not everyone has similar strengths, weakness, imbalances, etc.

[Demon Knight]

It really is up to the individual, what you progress best on.

Genetically gifted and/or drug assisted individuals can progress faster on pretty much any routine compared to an average joe. This is a fact, no matter which training/diet/rest regime you follow.

Arnold's famous routines may result in zero gains for you but for Arnold, it worked damn well.

For an average natural trainee, progress in what you can lift in large compound exercises (like squats and deadlifts) will result in progress in more or less all areas. This progress is far more important than if it's a split or a full body (nevermind the frequency, the sets, the reps, the tempo, the protein etc.)

You can forget about hormone release and other jibber-jabber of full body workouts if you are still stuck lifting the same weights you did a year ago. You're better off trying a split.

Likewise you can forget targeting a muscle area to failure on split workouts if you are still stuck lifting the same weights you did a year ago. You're better off trying a full body.

There is no right or wrong answer, only progress for you or no progress for you.



P.S. How many times did I say progress? lol

[Kevsworld]

In my opinion, the main advantage to splitting has to do with workout intensity. If I do 4-5 hard sets of squats I just don't have a lot left for bench press, etc (especially considering I'm working out in the tropics with no air conditioning). I'm much better off doing bench press on another day.

[TheBiggest]

Originally Posted by Kevsworld

In my opinion, the main advantage to splitting has to do with workout intensity. If I do 4-5 hard sets of squats I just don't have a lot left for bench press, etc (especially considering I'm working out in the tropics with no air conditioning). I'm much better off doing bench press on another day.

ye thats how i feel as well. splits allow u to hit each muscle while its fresh also

[gym_addict]

Originally Posted by miggitymags

Re-read my post, bro..

You say "the exercises in the routine are mainly compounds".. but where, in your original post, does it say that or even reference movements? It doesn't.

I'm not disagreeing with the statement b/c I understand what they are implying. But if you handed that statement (and the statement only with no movements to accompany it) to a noob, it is very misleading.

And by the way, what you posted was a statement - there was no evidence to support any of that. If there was, you didn't post it (again). And YES, it does matter who or what type of person uses it -- each split SHOULD be designed for the individual. Not everyone has similar strengths, weakness, imbalances, etc.

Yeh kinda went on a rant then didnt i.
What i meant was just like with any program you wouldnt just give a person a bit of paper with a routine on it without explaining, and demonstrateing the routine first.

Here another recent article i found;

WHOLE-BODY TRAINING INCREASES TEST AND ANDROGEN RECEPTOR ACTIVITY-Muscle mass increases in direct pro-portion to blood levels of test. Bodybuilders can increase test levels by taking AAS or doing intense, whole-body weight training. Test works by binding to androgen receptors in muscle cells. The steroid-receptor complex influences the cell nuclei (cell genetic center) to increase protein synthesis. Research from the University of Connecticut at Storrs found that whole-body exercise increased test levels more than isolated lower-body exercises (knee extensions). The elevated test levels increased andorgen receptor activity during recovery from the workout, which would pre-sumably increase protein synthesis and muscle growth. This study showed that intense, whole-body exercise triggers three processes that are critical for promoting muscle protein synthesis: 1) increased muscle tension, 2)increased test and, 3) increased androgen receptor activity. This is important information for bodybuiders who want to maximise the effectiveness of their workouts

[Demon Knight]

^^good post

It is (or should be) common knowledge that the more muscle mass used in exercise, the greater the hormone release....however, effort is higher and recovery longer.

Full body workouts require a much more prudent approach than splits, cycling intensity is key.

Try doing squats full pelt 3 times a week. That is super-duper hormone release. But I'll be very surprised if you can do that week after week. It's just too much for the average person.

[robbyybt]

Here's my 2 cents, as with every training programme it depends on what the user is looking for. If its an athlete training for a sport then full body workouts are the best. The body is a single unit and should be trained accordingly! However for bodybuilding where physical performance isn't neccesary, then split training is key imo. Nobody has perfect genetics and training for symmetry can't be achieved realisticly with a full body programme!

Originally Posted by gym_addict

WHOLE-BODY TRAINING INCREASES TEST AND ANDROGEN RECEPTOR ACTIVITY-Muscle mass increases in direct pro-portion to blood levels of test. Bodybuilders can increase test levels by taking AAS or doing intense, whole-body weight training. Test works by binding to androgen receptors in muscle cells. The steroid-receptor complex influences the cell nuclei (cell genetic center) to increase protein synthesis. Research from the University of Connecticut at Storrs found that whole-body exercise increased test levels more than isolated lower-body exercises (knee extensions). The elevated test levels increased andorgen receptor activity during recovery from the workout, which would pre-sumably increase protein synthesis and muscle growth. This study showed that intense, whole-body exercise triggers three processes that are critical for promoting muscle protein synthesis: 1) increased muscle tension, 2)increased test and, 3) increased androgen receptor activity. This is important information for bodybuiders who want to maximise the effectiveness of their workouts

Where did you find that article? Do you have the original from the university of conneticut? Would be an interesting read!

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by robbyybt

Nobody has perfect genetics and training for symmetry can't be achieved realisticly with a full body programme!

Why not?

Reg Park trained full body as a natural, a lot of the time only on large compounds. His symmetry was astounding. Same with non-naturals such as Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates.

Now you see, I'm not a believer that in order to achieve symmetry you have to do a split. For the most part, everyone's body has a symmetry it will try to keep on a full body split. For example, doing a normal bench/squat/row routine, I doubt your chest will grow out of proportion to your triceps from the benching or your calves won't grow if your quads grow through squatting.

You can do a full body workout for a period of time, say 12 weeks, then change the workout in the next 12 weeks. You don't have to do all the movements in the same period of time to grow symmetrically i.e. flat bench for middle chest, incline for upper chest and dips for lower chest. Focus/progress on one for a good couple of months, then focus/progress on the other.

The idea that you have to hit a muscle from every angle in order to achieve symmetry is not false, it just doesn't have to be done in the same workout or heck, even in the same 6 months.

[gym_addict]

Originally Posted by Determined 08

Sorry to change the subject but I've noticed this alot. Your Henry Rollins quote is incorrect. Just letting ya know

Thw whole quote wont fit into my signiture, so that will do

[gym_addict]

[QUOTE=Demon Knight;724016
Try doing squats full pelt 3 times a week. That is super-duper hormone release. But I'll be very surprised if you can do that week after week. It's just too much for the average person.[/QUOTE]

You dont necessarily have to do squats 3x a week. Say for Mondays fullbody workout do squats, then Wednesday fullbody workout to 45degree leg press, then Fridays fullbody workout do hack squats or maybe even an isolation like extensions, tho compounds are the main exercises to be done in each workout for all body parts

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by gym_addict

You dont necessarily have to do squats 3x a week. Say for Mondays fullbody workout do squats, then Wednesday fullbody workout to 45degree leg press, then Fridays fullbody workout do hack squats or maybe even an isolation like extensions, tho compounds are the main exercises to be done in each workout for all body parts

True mate, that would probably be possible, I'm just arguing the "hormone release" statement, if you wanted to maximise that.

Leg press and hack squats or isolation leg exercises don't have near the hormone release of free weight squats (there was a study somewhere about this)

[robbyybt]

Originally Posted by Demon Knight

Why not?

Reg Park trained full body as a natural, a lot of the time only on large compounds. His symmetry was astounding. Same with non-naturals such as Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates.

Now you see, I'm not a believer that in order to achieve symmetry you have to do a split. For the most part, everyone's body has a symmetry it will try to keep on a full body split. For example, doing a normal bench/squat/row routine, I doubt your chest will grow out of proportion to your triceps from the benching or your calves won't grow if your quads grow through squatting.

You can do a full body workout for a period of time, say 12 weeks, then change the workout in the next 12 weeks. You don't have to do all the movements in the same period of time to grow symmetrically i.e. flat bench for middle chest, incline for upper chest and dips for lower chest. Focus/progress on one for a good couple of months, then focus/progress on the other.

The idea that you have to hit a muscle from every angle in order to achieve symmetry is not false, it just doesn't have to be done in the same workout or heck, even in the same 6 months.

Technically speaking you can achieve great symmetry on a full body split, however in practice its incredibly hard. Full body splits train the body as a whole, nobody will gain muscle mass as a whole at the same rate. Everybody will have a stubborn body part and a good body part. If your training full body its harder to directly hit specific body parts to keep them from lagging behind and ruining symmetry whereas a split allows it to be tailored to hit each group as needed without over training, i.e my chest needs to be hit twice a week to keep atrophy from happening whereas my biceps can be worked sufficiently just from back exercises alone.

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by robbyybt

Full body splits train the body as a whole, nobody will gain muscle mass as a whole at the same rate. Everybody will have a stubborn body part and a good body part.

Too true mate, eveyone's different but (for example having lagging arms) having an arm day will not produce any results in the long term if you are not getting bigger as a whole. And the quickest and most efficient way to get big as a whole is to progress on large compounds like squats, deadlifts, bench etc.

Too much focus is placed on symmetry, hitting the muscle from every angle etc. Some get away with this, and these are genetically above average and/or drug taking individuals.

Get to squatting 2x bodyweight for reps and benching 1.5x your bodyweight for reps, then see how much you are lagging in areas. Trying various splits to bring up lagging parts is a waste of time, unless you are already progressing on major exercises.

[MisterX]

I think if you incorporate compound movements in any routines you will grow.

You lift, you grow. It's not rocket science.

Depending on what else you do with your time should be the deciding factor in what routine you chose. If your an athlete or do not hav ethe time to hit the gym 5-6 times a week then I say full body is for you. If you do have the time to hit the gym 5-6 times a week and enjoy being in the gym then why not do a split? Worst case scenario, you won't see any more gains than you would with a full body but you'll burn more calories. I don't believe that full body routines are the best for a dedicated bodybuilder but that's just my opinion.

Keep in mind that if you lift, you will grow no matter what routine you chose.