[dapack]

Going to pick everyone's brain. Going to have a problem sometimes were in order to get all my cardio in for the day I would have to do it in the morning with my weight training. Rigth now I weight train and usally do around 45mins of light cardio afterward. Soon I will need between 1 1/2 hrs to 2 hrs of cardio so really do not want to do it all in one shot, would die of boredom. So I see three choices and from there a couple of more to the first three options:

1. Would you do all cardio before weight training.
2. Would you do all cardio after weight training.
3. Would you split up both session equally with weight training.

Now whatever the above answer is it will still be close to 3hrs in the gym. So being there that long. What if any kind of supplements should I use in between each type of training? Right now I wake up slam some whey mixed with oatmeal and take some BCAA's and about 30 to 45mins later I am at the gym. Thanks for the help all.

[Oldford911]

well i have no experience in the whole cardio thing, but... when my buddy diets for contest he usually does 45 min first thing in the morning then has his workout at around 4 or 5 and does another 45 min with his workout session or later that night. He does this for the same reason you said, he dont wanna be in the gym for 3 hours,lol hope that helps.

[Engagechad]

May I/we ask why you need to do that much cardio? That seems excessive and possibly dangerous (unless of course you eat right and supplement correctly which I'm sure you do).

I've read good stuff about post workout cardio, utilizing the fact that your body has depleted glycogen levels from the weight training and I usually do post workout cardio but I've had good results from morning cardio too.

I'd love to hear some more input from others though

[HawaiianPride.]

Cardio after.

[ZiR RED]

You should be doing HIIT cardio, not steady state interval, for several reasons.

To name the most important to body composition:

1. HIIT results in a greater O2 debt, resulting in an elevated metabolism where fats are being oxidized for a longer period of time.

2. Unlike steady state aerobic exercise, HIIT does not result in a decrease in muscle fiber size, or intraconversion to more aerobic (smaller) muscle fibers.

3. Unlike steady state aerobic, HIIT does not result in elevated Chronic cortisol leves.

And lastly, I was hoping to save this for a long post, but I suppose I will unviel it now.

4. In lean indivdiauls, steady state aerobic cardio has been shown to upregulate glut-4 transporters in both muscle AND ADIPOSE tissue. HIIT has not. This is a survival adaption that results in a partitioning of energy to adipose in a lean individual.

Br

[stalion]

hiit ftw
3 -20m session per week with good diet and your done works great

[dapack]

Originally Posted by Engagechad

May I/we ask why you need to do that much cardio? That seems excessive and possibly dangerous (unless of course you eat right and supplement correctly which I'm sure you do).

I've read good stuff about post workout cardio, utilizing the fact that your body has depleted glycogen levels from the weight training and I usually do post workout cardio but I've had good results from morning cardio too.

I'd love to hear some more input from others though

it is light intensity, and bodyfat most go, do not want to mess with carlories so only one option, up the cardio. which means up to 2 hrs a day 6 days a week in the near future.

[dapack]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

You should be doing HIIT cardio, not steady state interval, for several reasons.

To name the most important to body composition:

1. HIIT results in a greater O2 debt, resulting in an elevated metabolism where fats are being oxidized for a longer period of time.

2. Unlike steady state aerobic exercise, HIIT does not result in a decrease in muscle fiber size, or intraconversion to more aerobic (smaller) muscle fibers.

3. Unlike steady state aerobic, HIIT does not result in elevated Chronic cortisol leves.

And lastly, I was hoping to save this for a long post, but I suppose I will unviel it now.

4. In lean indivdiauls, steady state aerobic cardio has been shown to upregulate glut-4 transporters in both muscle AND ADIPOSE tissue. HIIT has not. This is a survival adaption that results in a partitioning of energy to adipose in a lean individual.

Br

I know you love HIIT and I have no problems, heck less cardio with better results what is there not to love. The problem is there is now way I can do more than a couple HIIT's a week with my legs being sore and that will not get the job done, also right now my grion and right quad are bothering me, running is not an option at this point only LISS. So if I need to do 1 1/2 to 2 hrs at one shoot would you split it between the weights if you had to do it all in one shot? Would you bring any kind of extra supps to the gym to take since it would be a very long time, ie a shake, carbs, BCAA's, ect?

[dapack]

Thanks all for the reply's, honestly if HIIT was an option I would do that, less work better results, just not an option at this point and time. With my work there will be days were I need to do all cardio and weight training before work, so there is my problem, will not be able to split up the cardio into two sessions. Would reducing the calories slightly for the day make up for not doing the 2nd session and would it be a good idea? Really afraid to bring my calories under 2,600 that is why I keep adding cardio instead of calorie reduction. Way behind were I should be, so muscle loss is not a top concerned, all though would like to avoid as much as possible.

[FitnessModel45]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

You should be doing HIIT cardio, not steady state interval, for several reasons.

To name the most important to body composition:

1. HIIT results in a greater O2 debt, resulting in an elevated metabolism where fats are being oxidized for a longer period of time.

2. Unlike steady state aerobic exercise, HIIT does not result in a decrease in muscle fiber size, or intraconversion to more aerobic (smaller) muscle fibers.

3. Unlike steady state aerobic, HIIT does not result in elevated Chronic cortisol leves.

And lastly, I was hoping to save this for a long post, but I suppose I will unviel it now.

4. In lean indivdiauls, steady state aerobic cardio has been shown to upregulate glut-4 transporters in both muscle AND ADIPOSE tissue. HIIT has not. This is a survival adaption that results in a partitioning of energy to adipose in a lean individual.

Br

I've noticed you REALLY like to encourage the use of HIIT cardio opposed to LISS cardio but I've NEVER encountered a bodybuilder or contest trainer that calls for HIIT cardio during contest prep.. From my own experience bodybuilders are MUCH more likely to use HIIT during a bulk and LISS for contest prep (because you are in a caloric deficient state).

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by FitnessModel45

I've noticed you REALLY like to encourage the use of HIIT cardio opposed to LISS cardio but I've NEVER encountered a bodybuilder or contest trainer that calls for HIIT cardio during contest prep.. From my own experience bodybuilders are MUCH more likely to use HIIT during a bulk and LISS for contest prep (because you are in a caloric deficient state).

What bodybuilders though? Most natural bodybuilders opt for high intensity cardio, there are some who can get away with low intensity. As for the IFBB pros, well they're taking so many drugs (bodyfat reducing ones too on a cut), it's relatively immaterial how much or what type of cardio they do.

[Egotrip]

I am not partial to any cardio prior to lifting. I like to have all of my strength to move the weight. So if you can't split cardio, I would go with option 2 (all cardio after workout).

[stalion]

HIIT is best performed on off day and its treated like a training session = pre workout meal+post workout meal

[ZiR RED]

Originally Posted by dapack

I know you love HIIT and I have no problems, heck less cardio with better results what is there not to love. The problem is there is now way I can do more than a couple HIIT's a week with my legs being sore and that will not get the job done, also right now my grion and right quad are bothering me, running is not an option at this point only LISS. So if I need to do 1 1/2 to 2 hrs at one shoot would you split it between the weights if you had to do it all in one shot? Would you bring any kind of extra supps to the gym to take since it would be a very long time, ie a shake, carbs, BCAA's, ect?

Get on an exercise bike. Jack the resistance up to where you can maintain 90-100 rpm for 30 seconds, reduce it to near nothng for 30 seconds. Repeat.

Br

[ZiR RED]

Originally Posted by FitnessModel45

I've noticed you REALLY like to encourage the use of HIIT cardio opposed to LISS cardio but I've NEVER encountered a bodybuilder or contest trainer that calls for HIIT cardio during contest prep.. From my own experience bodybuilders are MUCH more likely to use HIIT during a bulk and LISS for contest prep (because you are in a caloric deficient state).

You have obviously never met layne norton, jamie hale, or lyle mcdonald. Some of the best contest trainers, and in the case of layne, a natural pro.

But, I would like to hear why you hold your opinoin that HIIT is not as effective or more than LISS?

Br

[dapack]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

Get on an exercise bike. Jack the resistance up to where you can maintain 90-100 rpm for 30 seconds, reduce it to near nothng for 30 seconds. Repeat.

Br

Will give that a try thanks, never thought about that, always consider HIIT as sprinting, I guess in the end if I have it right it is just elevating your HR and bringing it back down and elevating it again. You think I could do it on the Stair Mill too, I love that for cardio, not the stepper but the one that is like a treadmill but with stairs? This could save me a lot of time and sanity, don't mine cardio, but if there is an option of doing 20 to 30mins of HIIT compared to 1 1/2 to 2 hrs of LISS, will take HIIT everytime. Now I am really excited, have a pm session of cardio tonight to do to finish up my day, will give it a try. One last one, for a contest cut should I do it everyday or mix and match with LISS? Also maybe no way around it at times, before or after weights if I have to do it like that?

[ZiR RED]

After weights, and you shouldn't have to do much LISS, if any at all.

Look up the study done by tremblay et al.

Br

[Kaboom]

I have always done LISS with decent results but I have read info from Zir many times and from other people and am seriously considering HIIT for next few weeks

[GeorgeT]

Zir, whats your opinion on HIIT during keto? also whats your opinion on fasted HIIT, while i do respect your knowledge i also respect DatBTrue's knowledge and he's anti HIIT :P

[ZiR RED]

I don't know who datbtrue is.

Anyhow, there is a substantial amount of evidence that shows fasted cardio is not as effective in reducing bodyfat as is fed cardio. The same especially applies to HIIT, which requires a rapid production of energy to perform.

Melanson EL, et al. Resistance and aerobic exercise have similar effects on 24-h nutrient oxidation.. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002 Nov;34(11):1793-800.
Ahlborg, G., and P. Felig. Influence of glucose ingestion on fuel-hormone response during prolonged exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 1976;41:683-688.
De Glisezinski I, et al. Effect of carbohydrate ingestion on adipose tissue lipolysis during long-lasting exercise in trained men. J Appl Physiol. 1998 May;84(5):1627-32.
Coyle EF, et al. Fatty acid oxidation is directly regulated by carbohydrate metabolism during exercise. Am J Physiol. 1997 Aug;273(2 Pt 1):E268-75.
Civitarese AE, et al. Glucose ingestion during exercise blunts exercise-induced gene expression of skeletal muscle fat oxidative genes. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Dec;289(6):E1023-9.
Wallis GA, et al. Metabolic response to carbohydrate ingestion during exercise in males and females. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Apr;290(4):E708-15.
Coyle, et al. Muscle glycogen utilization during prolonged strenuous exercise when fed carbohydrate. J. Appl. Physiol. 1986;6:165-172.
Coyle, et al.. Carbohydrates during prolonged strenuous exercise can delay fatigue. J. Appl. Physiol. 59: 429-433, 1983.
Horowitz JF, et al. Substrate metabolism when subjects are fed carbohydrate during exercise. Am J Physiol. 1999 May;276(5 Pt 1):E828-35.
Febbraio MA, et al. Effects of carbohydrate ingestion before and during exercise on glucose kinetics and exercise performance. J Appl Physiol. 2000 Dec;89(6):2220-6.

During a keto diet, your performance will be comprimised, but that's really of no concern since body composition is the main focus, not anaerobic performance. I haven't seen any studies investigating the efffects of LISS vs HIIT on low-carb diets, however, I would wager to bet more fat will still be oxidized over the course of training + recovery using HIIT over LISS.

Br