[Ryan1]

I've been bodybuilding since last November and so far my arms are never sore the day after arms/back day. I get a good pump from the workout and my arms are inreasing in size but I was hoping you guys would look over my routine and let me know if it is lacking anything. Every set is done to failure. The routine is listed below:

Pullups x 4 sets x 14 reps
x 12 reps
x 10 reps
x 8 reps
MTS Row x 4 sets 100lbs x 14 reps
120lbs x 12 reps
140lbs x 10 reps
160lbs x 8 reps
Standing b-bell curl x 4 sets 40lbs x 14 reps
50lbs x 12 reps
60lbs x 10 reps
70lbs x 6 reps
Sitting d-bell curl x 4 sets 20lbs x 14 reps
25lbs x 12 reps
30lbs x 10 reps
35lbs x 6 reps

I have made sure that my form is correct and I am careful to contract while I am lifting. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks for taking a look,

Ryan

[ZiR RED]

Soresness is not an indicator of growth. I think you need more volume for your back and less for your biceps.

Br

[FronttaBackThickness]

cosign

[Blitzkrieg]

As ZiR already mentioned soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth, you said it yourself: they're increasing in size, so what seems to be the problem?

[KM]

Eh, seems normal to me man. As you continue to lift and go through different regimens you tend to realize that your arms adapt pretty quickly. The biceps don't require a large stimulus to grow, so going to failure every workout is counterproductive.

Unless you change up the mix and make a change to your training prototype, you probably won't see any signs of DOMS (soreness) in the near future.

[Ryan1]

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

As ZiR already mentioned soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth, you said it yourself: they're increasing in size, so what seems to be the problem?

No problem, I guess. I tend to overthink things and just want to make sure that I am doing things right. Just about every other muscle group seems to be a little sore the next day (especially legs) so I assumed I wasn't attacking my arms correctly. Good to know that I can chill out a bit.

[Ryan1]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

Soresness is not an indicator of growth. I think you need more volume for your back and less for your biceps.

Br

Sounds like the general consensus is that I am overworking my arms and underworking my back. Could anybody point me in the right direction in regards to a good back/arms day routine?

[KM]

Originally Posted by Ryan1

Sounds like the general consensus is that I am overworking my arms and underworking my back. Could anybody point me in the right direction in regards to a good back/arms day routine?

Everyone's different, but essentially you need a deadlift, a row, shrugging movement and a high pull. The traps (upper, middle and lower fibers), lats/teres major, lower back (as well as other muscles), and rhomboids are all recruited to the point of overload with the exercises I mentioned.

Biceps... I'm a firm believer of very little direct bicep work, so some one else should hop in for that one. Volume is also subjective bro so your sets and reps are all up to you.

[phluxx]

Soreness is definitely not an indicator of growth. However, you should still be sore. I think you're either not lifting with the best form, or your need more volume. You might even just need to change your routine. Your body will get used to the same exercises and they become easier.

That being said, your back work is severely lacking.

This is a typical current back/bi day for me (I 5x5 deadlift every other week, so just assume this is a DL week)

Deadlifts
Bent over BB Row
Standing EZBar BB Curls
Lat Pulldown
TBar Rows
Concentration Curls
1 to 3 sets of 21s, depending on how my biceps feel.

I switch exercises out all the time. When I'm not deadlifting I'll swap that out with something like wide grip pullups or something, although if I do that I'll change my lat pulldowns to something else..


also...

Originally Posted by KM

Volume is also subjective bro so your sets and reps are all up to you.

so true

[Ryan1]

Originally Posted by phluxx

Soreness is definitely not an indicator of growth. However, you should still be sore. I think you're either not lifting with the best form, or your need more volume. You might even just need to change your routine. Your body will get used to the same exercises and they become easier.

That being said, your back work is severely lacking.

This is a typical current back/bi day for me (I 5x5 deadlift every other week, so just assume this is a DL week)

Deadlifts
Bent over BB Row
Standing EZBar BB Curls
Lat Pulldown
TBar Rows
Concentration Curls
1 to 3 sets of 21s, depending on how my biceps feel.

I switch exercises out all the time. When I'm not deadlifting I'll swap that out with something like wide grip pullups or something, although if I do that I'll change my lat pulldowns to something else..


also...



so true

Ok, Tuesday is back/bicep day and I will give this routine a shot. As always the advice is much appreciated.

[Ryan1]

So I gave the routine suggested by phluxx a try this week and thought I would follow up with the results. I noticed a huge difference in my back feeling like I had truly worked it overall. My arms still didn't hurt the next day but I was able to lift heavier weights since I wasn't exhausting my biceps with so many sets and reps. I think the routine is doing the trick and will pay off once I get used to it. Thanks again.

[phluxx]

Glad to hear. When you're doing concentration curls make sure that at the top of the curl you pause and squeeze your bicep, and let your arm down fully straight. This practically suctions blood into my bicep, lol.

[<3Frosty]

I have started to eliminate all direct bicep work in my current routine. Not much is needed to stimulate such a small muscle from everything i have read.

Besides, most direct bicep work does not translate to real world, functional strength.

I choose to use alot of rows and pullups/chinups to hit my biceps while also hitting other muscles. These are all compound movements. Chinups are especially effective. Challenge yourself. Do as many reps as you can for 3 sets, with 60 seconds rest between.

Dont go to MUSCULAR failure from what i have read. Instead, stop when you slow down or break form. By slow down, i mean you notice a definite decrease in the quickness you complete your full ROM.
Do these fast, raise yourself ASAP, and lower in a controlled manner but with speed as well.

[RAGEN2008]

Out of all of my muscles, chest, back, shoulders, legs I would have to say my biceps are the least sore after a workout. I do about 6-8 sets of preacher curls on arms day (biceps and triceps). That is more than enough for me. Since separating my bicep/back day which I used to do together, to back only and going bicep and triceps on their own day, I've noticed I am gaining size faster.

I think doing biceps after a heavy hard back workout just leads to over training, I get a decent bicep workout from back day and 3 days later I hit biceps and triceps together.