[allstar]

Originally Posted by MikeNYY420

Wow, great post.

So Allstar, you say white and red blood cells are suspended in plasma, does that mean that are in plasma?

What percent of what else makes up the rest of the blood?

What respiratory gases are transported and to where? More importantly perhaps what are they?

What is Hemoglobin and what does it do? White blood cells are primarily used to fight infections right?

Don't you not want blood to clot?

You want blood to clot when you get cut, otherwise you would bleed to death.

[MikeNYY420]

Originally Posted by Freak

Quit reading the outdated book you are just getting more confused. Get the nutrition book I have told you 1k times to get and the books Zir mentioned.

I've been asking my mom everyday man, she keeps saying that I have to wait until she can put more money into her paypal account, which will be a few weeks.

Originally Posted by KM

lol soon you'll know twice as much as me, I'm sure of that.



Read allstar's link, this should lay out the guidelines.


I'll take what Arnold says with a grain of salt. Not sure what he means, trainign the cardiovascular system. I'd agree that blood circulation improves through cardiac work, not sure how this would carry out lactic acid.

Lactic acid can be removed in 2 ways:

Converted to yield glucose and eventually excreted by the lungs or an adjustment into pyruvate.

Or, it can simply be removed within an hour or so.



Here's a quick little chart:
0-6sec: intense exercise - phosphagen system is enabled.
6-30sec: intense exercise - phosphagen and Anaerobic glycolytic system is enabled.
30sec-2min: heavy intensity -anaerobic glycolytic system enabled
2-3min: moderate-moderate/low intensity - AG and aeorobic glyc system
3min+: aerobic glycotic system enabled

Numbers are around abouts, not exact. That should help ya.


You can't control which energy system you use. The only way to differentiate this is by different exercise, intensities and time variables. In most cases, cardio done is aerobic which can allow your body to break down fats (TG's; triglycerides) for energy, because your body can not undergo glycogenolysis (use of glycogen...stored glucose). That is also, if protein is kept where it should be.

not sure last question, catabolism is done through many different processes, primarily being gluconeogensis. Whether ATP is used during the conversion i'm not sure.

For future reference: gluconeogensis is the breakdown of proteins and/or fatty acids into glucose for energy. Opposite of glycolysis.

Haha I hope so man. I'd like to get the college textbook that Zir meantioned as well as a few others. So I should be right up there soon!

By training the cardio system he means aerobic exercise. He also says taking less time between sets, which def. works.

How do the lungs excret glucose?? Just by breathing or what? What's pyruvate?

Right now I have 14 definitions and all your charts, great references.

Not to be difficult but in the 0-6 seconds if the exercise isn't intense than is the same system still enabled?

Could someone walk me through the ins and outs of how the phosphagen system works. Here's what I know, it's responsible for creating ATP in response to high intensity exercise. It uses creatine kinase and creatine phosphate to replenish ATP stores during rest periods between exercise. ATP is the main source of energy in humans, which I don't understand because other systems are used too.

Where you say Ag and aerobic glyco. system you mean aerobic and anaerobic glyco systems right?

Are triglycerides the only kinds of fats that can to broken down for energy and does this only happen in moderate intensity exercise like jogging like I remember from the HIIT thread? Or is triglycerides what their called after they're broken down?

Good thing you defined gluconeogensis, I was gonna ask haha.

My head is actually hurting slightly, I'd guess from trying to learn so much and from some stuff I did yesterday haha. I'm gonna go pass out, great info guys I'm bookmarking this thread for sure.

[allstar]

dude freaks book that he is talkin about is like $5 tops

[MikeNYY420]

Originally Posted by Freak

For questions such as what is hemoglobin try

I love your motivation Mike but please get rid of Arnolds book.

, Google sucks. I've looked up like 10 words on there and either didn't get a definition or couldn't make sense of it so I figure I'll just ask on here.

Ok I'll get rid of it haha.

[KM]

I'm tired so if what i say starts looking like gibberish....sorry.

Originally Posted by MikeNYY420

How do the lungs excrete glucose?? Just by breathing or what? What's pyruvate?

Through other processes, it must convert the glucose into carbon dioxide.

Pyruvate..so; simply, glucose contains 6 carbons. When the carbons are split up (2 sets of 3 carbons), you form pyruvate. This is done within glycolysis.

Not to be difficult but in the 0-6 seconds if the exercise isn't intense than is the same system still enabled?

Nope. We're talking weight training here, which is an intense exercise alone. If it's 0-6 seconds with low-moderate intensity then little energy transfer is being done, however if it is, it's aerobic.



^^Table to show system activation. Look closely.

Could someone walk me through the ins and outs of how the phosphagen system works. Here's what I know, it's responsible for creating ATP in response to high intensity exercise. It uses creatine kinase and creatine phosphate to replenish ATP stores during rest periods between exercise. ATP is the main source of energy in humans, which I don't understand because other systems are used too.

First, here's a link for help within the metabolic energy systems: The Three Muscle Energy Systems and How to Train Them: A Conditioning: Tactical and Martial Arts article from Dragon Door Publications
^Oxidative = aerobic system, another technical name.

In regards to the ATP system.

Phosphocreatine is broken down by creatine kinase into simply a phosphate and a creatine molecule, this separation creates energy (this rate of energy we call a phosphagen). Afterwards (during rest itnervals), the phosphate is joined with ADP (2-DI-phosphates) and then converted to ATP (3-TRI-phosphates). The cycle continues..

Think: ADP+PC =ATP+C > the phosphate from the phosphocretien separation is used in the creatine of ATP.

Hope that helps.

Where you say Ag and aerobic glyco. system you mean aerobic and anaerobic glyco systems right?

Yep.

here's a VERY simplified way of thinking of glycolysis, we're getting into it here bro:

2 hydrogens > move to the mitochondria > unable to enter cell > rejoin with pyruvate (remember definition) which develops lactic acid. Pryruvic acid + hydrogen = lactic acid, causing the pH of the blood to drop.

Are triglycerides the only kinds of fats that can to broken down for energy and does this only happen in moderate intensity exercise like jogging like I remember from the HIIT thread? Or is triglycerides what their called after they're broken down?

Triglycerides is the storage form of bf. It is broken down when exercise suggests this. However, stress hormones can breakdown muscle as well (glucagon, cortisol, etc.).

Woah, that was a lot haha. Good night bro.

[Freak]

Glucose is compsed of 6 carbon atoms. Glycolysis breaks glucose down into (2) 3 carbon chains and eventually yields pyruvate.

1 Glucose molecule yields 2 pyruvate molecules.

[KM]

^^ good info. Thanks! ****'s hard.

[Freak]

I don't even understand all of it. Yes it is indeed.

[mperk]

Hey guys great thread! Mike I'm impressed that you read the book - I've got it too and to be honest only look at the pics and some of the explanations. Does seem dated but it's sure interesting when u consider it's 25+ years old. Like Oprah, Arnold is the king of marketing and self promotion...(Not that there is anything wrong with that!)

Great questions Mike - Kev,Brent & Tim - great answers - thanks!

[KM]

mike did we scare you away? lol

[Freak]

Triglycerides are the storage form of fat in the body.

[Freak]

The book is $8.17 shipped and that includes the diet analysis CD.

Half.com / Books / Understanding Nutrition

[MikeNYY420]

Alright here we go. I'm just lacking in the knowledge department lately haha. Kev in response to your post.

Why does the body turn glucose to carbon dioxide? I thought it used if for energy and what isn't used for energy is stored as glycogen?

I just looked and I don't have glycolysis in my definitions can I get that? Google sucks sorry guys haha.

How does turning glucose into pyruvate help the body?

So we're saying oxidate means aerobic system and is creatine and phosphate system names for the anaerobic system?

Phosphocreatine could you define that?

So by supplementing creatine monohydrate does that break down into all these other types of creatine that help with ATP?

Freak you said triglycerides are stored fat, but I thought that was lipids?

What's it called when you eat a cheat meal, like what are you trying to do again something about lipids. I'll check my cheat meal thread for some info too, it's prolly there. I was trying to explain this to a friend and I'm like wait lipid something.

Kev are you saying that the process of phosphocreatine braking down by creatine kinase into a phosphate and a creatine molecule is called phosphagen.

So during rest periods phosphate's bonded with ADP but what happens to the creatine molecule?

So in the body- say you're doing 100 yard HIIT- You have ATP stored and ready to use, this is used quickly then your body goes to ADP for energy, if this is used you move to the aerobic system for energy. On the walk back to the start your body's breaking down phosphocreatine with creatine kinase, (or is it kinate?) and moving phosphate and creatine as seperate molecules. The phosphate then forms with the ADP and forms ATP. Right? Am I missing anything?

What happens here^ if you go through the ADP stores and are on to the aerobic system?

Why can't the 2 hydrogen (atoms?) enter the mitochondria, can they never enter? If not they why do they still try it seems like they'd adapt.

How can hydrogens rejoin the pyruvate if the pyruvate isn't hydrogens it's carbons?

I still don't get it what are we referring to when we say acidic in blood? Plasma?

So before lactic acid can form glucose must first be made into pyruvate, why does this happen again, what's the body trying to accomplish? Then 2 hydrogen atoms leave the pyruvate and try to get into the muscle cell, but can't and then rejoin pyruvate which sounds to me like a waste of time for them to do that since they're leavign trying to get to the muscle cell can't and then going right back.

What's pryruvic acid?

Could I have an example like of what's happeing during the course of exercise like I made up there ^ I learn best through example.

Thanks everyone for helping that is!!

[MikeNYY420]

Awesome Freak, I'll get that book 8.17 ok I'll tell my mom that and get it soon. Does it have all this **** in it?

[Freak]

Yeah!

[justlift32]

this is intense.

[MikeNYY420]

Very I've only responded to KM's posts I still have to ask Tim and others people questions.

[justlift32]

At least you have a thirst for knowledge man. Good for you.

[MikeNYY420]

Yeah especially since I'm taking a few days off from lifting, I feel like I need to take that time to eating and learning how to better myself powerlifting wise.

I hate not lifting.

[justlift32]

Agreed mike. Rest days are torture sometimes, but you have to take them.

[allstar]

Glucose is a ready source of energy, since its carbon atoms are easily oxidised to form carbon dioxide, releasing energy in the process ( so we now know why is glucose instant energy provider). Due to the numerous OH groups in glucose it readily hydrogen-bonds with water molecues, making it highly soluble in water. This allows easy transportation within the biological systems.

If large amount of glucose was to remain in blood, the osmotic balance between the blood and the cell fluids would be disrupted and the cells would be damaged. However this does not occur, since the glucose does not remain in the bloodstream, but its converted into Glycogen in the liver. Glycogen is suitable for storage because it is insoluble and cannot pass through cell membranes.

When glucose sugar is phosphorylated on carbon 6 we get glucose 6-Phosphate. its two major metaboilc pathways are:

1. Glycolysis: If the cells need energy or carbon skeletons for sysnthesis then glucose 6-phosphate is targeted for glycolysis.
2. Pentose phosphate pathway: when the ratio of NADP+:NADPH increses, the body realizes it needs to produce more NADPH. This will cause the G6P to be dehydrogenated by glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase. This reversible reaction is the initial step of the pentose phosphate pathway, which generates the useful co factor NADPH as well as Ribulose 5-phosphate, a carbon source for the synthesis of other molecules.

If the blood sugar levels are high, the body needs a way to store the excess glucose. After being converted to G6P, an isomerase ( phosphoglucose mutase) can turn the molecule into glucose 1 phosphate. G1P can be combined with Uridine TriPhosphate (UTP) to form UDP-glucose, This reaction is driven by the hydrolysis of pyrophosphate that is released in the reaction. Now, the activated UDP-glucose can add to a growing glycogen molecue with the help of glycogen synthase. This is a very efficient storage mechanism for glucose as it requires only 1 ATP to store the 1 glucose molecule and virtually no energy to remove it from storage.

Note that G6P is an allosteric activator of glycogen synthase, which makes sense because when the level of glucose is high the body should store the excess glucose as glycogen. On the other hand, glycogen synthase is inhibited when it is phosphorylated by protein kinase during times of high stress or low blood glucose levels.

And when energy is needed by the body..glycogen is broken down into glucose and used up.



Nutrition - Fat, Protein and Carbohydrates

How Glucose is Converted to Energy

[allstar]

Glycolysis literally means "splitting sugars." In glycolysis, glucose (a six carbon sugar) is split into two molecules of a three-carbon sugar. Glycolysis yields two molecules of ATP (free energy containing molecule), two molecules of pyruvic acid and two "high energy" electron carrying molecules of NADH. Glycolysis can occur with or without oxygen. In the presence of oxygen, glycolysis is the first stage of cellular respiration. Without oxygen, glycolysis allows cells to make small amounts of ATP. This process is called fermentation.
10 Steps of Glycolysis
Step 1

The enzyme hexokinase phosphorylates (adds a phosphate group to) glucose in the cell's cytoplasm. In the process, a phosphate group from ATP is transferred to glucose producing glucose 6-phosphate. See the reaction.

Glucose (C6H12O6) + hexokinase + ATP → ADP + Glucose 6-phosphate (C6H11O6P1)

Step 2

The enzyme phosphoglucoisomerase converts glucose 6-phosphate into its isomer fructose 6-phosphate. Isomers have the same molecular formula, but the atoms of each molecule are arranged differently. See the reaction.

Glucose 6-phosphate (C6H11O6P1) + Phosphoglucoisomerase → Fructose 6-phosphate (C6H11O6P1)

Step 3

The enzyme phosphofructokinase uses another ATP molecule to transfer a phosphate group to fructose 6-phosphate to form fructose 1, 6-diphosphate. See the reaction.

Fructose 6-phosphate (C6H11O6P1) + phosphofructokinase + ATP → ADP + Fructose 1, 6-diphosphate (C6H10O6P2)

Step 4

The enzyme aldolase splits fructose 1, 6-diphosphate into two sugars that are isomers of each other. These two sugars are dihydroxyacetone phosphate and glyceraldehyde phosphate. See the reaction.

Fructose 1, 6-diphosphate (C6H10O6P2) + aldolase → Dihydroxyacetone phosphate (C3H5O3P1) + Glyceraldehyde phosphate (C3H5O3P1)

Step 5

The enzyme triose phosphate isomerase rapidly inter-converts the molecules dihydroxyacetone phosphate and glyceraldehyde phosphate. Glyceraldehyde phosphate is removed as soon as it is formed to be used in the next step of glycolysis. See the reaction.

Dihydroxyacetone phosphate (C3H5O3P1) → Glyceraldehyde phosphate (C3H5O3P1)

Net result for steps 4 and 5: Fructose 1, 6-diphosphate (C6H10O6P2) ↔ 2 molecules of Glyceraldehyde phosphate (C3H5O3P1)

Step 6

The enzyme triose phosphate dehydrogenase serves two functions in this step. First the enzyme transfers a hydrogen (H-) from glyceraldehyde phosphate to the oxidizing agent nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) to form NADH. Next triose phosphate dehydrogenase adds a phosphate (P) from the cytosol to the oxidized glyceraldehyde phosphate to form 1, 3-diphoshoglyceric acid. This occurs for both molecules of glyceraldehyde phosphate produced in step 5. See the reaction.

A. Triose phosphate dehydrogenase + 2 H- + 2 NAD+ → 2 NADH + 2 H+

B. Triose phosphate dehydrogenase + 2 P + 2 glyceraldehyde phosphate (C3H5O3P1) → 2 molecules of 1,3-diphoshoglyceric acid (C3H4O4P2)

Step 7

The enzyme phosphoglycerokinase transfers a P from 1,3-diphoshoglyceric acid to a molecule of ADP to form ATP. This happens for each molecule of 1,3-diphoshoglyceric acid. The process yields two 3-phosphoglyceric acid molecules and two ATP molecules. See the reaction.

2 molecules of 1,3-diphoshoglyceric acid (C3H4O4P2) + phosphoglycerokinase + 2 ADP → 2 molecules of 3-phosphoglyceric acid (C3H5O4P1) + 2 ATP

Step 8

The enzyme phosphoglyceromutase relocates the P from 3-phosphoglyceric acid from the third carbon to the second carbon to form 2-phosphoglyceric acid. See the reaction.

2 molecules of 3-Phosphoglyceric acid (C3H5O4P1) + phosphoglyceromutase → 2 molecules of 2-Phosphoglyceric acid (C3H5O4P1)

Step 9

The enzyme enolase removes a molecule of water from 2-phosphoglyceric acid to form phosphoenolpyruvic acid (PEP). This happens for each molecule of 2-phosphoglyceric acid. See the reaction.

2 molecules of 2-Phosphoglyceric acid (C3H5O4P1) + enolase → 2 molecules of phosphoenolpyruvic acid (PEP) (C3H3O3P1)

Step 10

The enzyme pyruvate kinase transfers a P from PEP to ADP to form pyruvic acid and ATP. This happens for each molecule of PEP. This reaction yields 2 molecules of pyruvic acid and 2 ATP molecules. See the reaction.

2 molecules of PEP (C3H3O3P1) + pyruvate kinase + 2 ADP → 2 molecules of pyruvic acid (C3H4O3) + 2 ATP
Summary
In summary, a single glucose molecule in glycolysis produces a total of 2 molecules of pyruvic acid, 2 molecules of ATP, 2 molecules of NADH and 2 molecules of water.

Although 2 ATP molecules are used in steps 1-3, 2 ATP molecules are generated in step 7 and 2 more in step 10. This gives a total of 4 ATP molecules produced. If you subtract the 2 ATP molecules used in steps 1-3 from the 4 generated at the end of step 10, you end up with a net total of 2 ATP molecules produced.

10 Steps of Glycolysis

[allstar]

Don't really understand that one, but I thought it would be good to learn so maybe freak or KM can elaborate on it.

[mperk]

Originally Posted by allstar

Don't really understand that one, but I thought it would be good to learn so maybe freak or KM can elaborate on it.

^^^^^Man - great post - a little techie for me but If i read enuf of this **** I might actually start to understand how my nutrition affects performance, growth etc. i think it's awsome u guys have a handle on this at your age! that will serve u well!

I think at 17 i was still comparing Ho-Hos to Ding Dongs to see which had more "cream" filling!!!!

[allstar]

Ya I wish I had the knowledge of KM or Freak, they really understand this stuff. But I'm getting there like I said my last post on glycolysis I didnt understand fully, but i hope someone sums thats one up.

PS- I got my money on HoHos

[allstar]

As for pyruvic acid, which is also called acetylformic acid I think(discussed it in chemistry when talking about moles)

Anyways on to the article I found
Pyruvic acid is a low mole weight alpha keto acid (ketone along with carboxylic acid). It contains a ketone bond on the carbon atom next to the acid group. If the ketone is on the second carbon next to the acid group, it is called beta-keto acid. Pyruvic acid is a liquid with acetic-acid smell; melting point 11 - 12 C; solube in water. It occurs naturally as an intermediate product in carbohydrate and protein metabolism in the body. The six-carbon glucose molecule is broken down to two molecules of pyruvic acid in aerobic condition as the main input for Krebs cycle, whereas to two molecules of lactic acid (alpha hydroxy acid) in anaerobic condition. Krebs cycle (also called citric acid cycle; tricarboxylic acid cycle) is a sequent process of enzymatic reaction which a two-carbon acetyl unit is oxidized to carbon dioxide and water to provide energy in the form of high-energy phosphate bonds. In commercial, pyruvic acid is used to produce its salts and esters (pyruvates) for the use as dietary supplements of the effective weight loss enhancers . Pyruvic acid is used for the synthesis of amino acids (alanine, tyrosine, phenylalanine, and tryptophan) and used in biochemical research. Its derivatives are used in making food additives and flavoring agents.

PYRUVIC ACID (ACETYLFORMIC ACID)

[Freak]

I'll comment on this on Friday. Someone remind me.

[Freak]

I'm really not sure what to say. Mike, your thirst for knowledge is incredible. With that said. Explaining complex concepts such as the intricacies of glycolysis, electron transport chain, and the krebs cycle will do you little value until you learn the basics. You need a solid foundation in order to tie everything together and just learning random words here and there is great but will make learning extremely difficult.

Lactic acid can be converted to glucose via the Cori cycle.

Carbs, fats, and proteins are broken down; eventually to carbon dioxide and water in the process of yielding energy. Check out the Krebs cycle for more info.

[MikeNYY420]

That's true Freak, I was thinking that. What do you suggest for learning them. I'll be getting that book soon I'm not sure how soon though.

[Freak]

This should help until you get the book:

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

A little trick I use is to remember Acetyl CoA: goes all the way.

Some people pronounce CoA as "C" "O" "A" and some pronounce it as coh AY. Just think coh AY goes all the way.

Hope this helps.