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The Best Routine
Old 03-05-2008, 02:36 AM   #1
johnnyairwaves
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I am looking for the best routine. I am 30 years old, 5'11" at 210lbs. 15% body fat. Supps currently used: NO Xplode, CellMass and ON 100% Whey. Main goal is to gain lean mass.

I workout twice a day M-F, 6AM for one hour/12PM for one hour- 20 minutes cardio/40 minutes lifting.

M-upper body/abs
T-Legs/abs
W-Core
T-upper body/abs
F-Legs/abs

I feel that I can handle a lot more upper body lifting and need a lot more as well.

Anyone recommend 3 days a week upperbody? M-W-F Split?

Is supersetting the best way to gain mass? Routine recommended?
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"Grab the bull by the horns the old addage goes.
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The worse part is the hardest earned.
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Trying to keep a level head.
In the most unsetteling of times.
Today I'll become the bull"
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:58 AM   #2
RAGEN2008
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This is my new schedule:

day1 chest
day2 legs
day3 triceps and biceps
day4 rest
day5 back and shoulders
day6 rest
day7 rest

I am just starting to lift again, not sure how long you have been lifting but doing everything 2x a week and on the same days seems way over kill.

I can't even imagine doing your whole upper body in one day, you're talking chest, back, shoulders, arms and I have no idea what you are doing, but I know I couldn't do all that in one workout.

If you can do all that I think you need to look at your intensity and amount of weight and total sets you are doing.

I think if you went all out and did all of those muscles with heavy lifting and intensity you'd be on the floor after just back and chest, I know I would

I would start with working out 1 body part per week, no more than two major muscle groups each day. Then to go for lean gains, not bulk, you need to calculate your calorie needs and eat enough to meet or just exceed them slightly to compensate for the workouts maybe 200 extra calories per day which would take weeks to equal a pound of fat so the workouts will burn that off easy.

This will help you eat enough to grow and the workouts will start to shed the fat% down.

As far as cardio I would maybe limit that to 3x a week or maybe integrate it before your workout say go for a job in the morning and then workout in the afternoon.

If you eat right and train right you won't really put on any fat. If your main goal is to focus on putting on "lean" muscle I would think you'd want to split up the workouts and train heavy with less frequency.

Then try to do a little less cardio, depending on how much size you want to put on depends on the workout, if you just want to add 5-10 pounds of muscle and stay lean maybe you could try circuit training if you're more into overall fitness vs. putting on size.
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:20 PM   #3
johnnyairwaves
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Thanks Ragen, I greatly appreciate your response.

I have been lifting on and off for 15 years but have seriously been dedicated since Nov. of 07. I have been doing Chest/Bi's and Tri's in the morning, back and shoulders in the afternoon. I have great recovery from my supplements and strict diet. I had some of the best gains of my life but the definition isnt as good as I would like. Your program only shows you working one muscle group once a week and I not sure I can get the gains I want from that.

Let me clarify my goals: I want lean muscle but also to bulk as well - I want shed fat while gaining as much muscle mass as possible...maybe even in compete in 2 years. Putting on size is a definite.

I am thinking that supersetting maybe the way to go and to do each muscle group 2X's a week. Only one way to find out. Either way got to keep the muscle guessing...so I've heard.
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"Grab the bull by the horns the old addage goes.
nobody tells you where to go from there.
I see whats greatful in you.
Decisions have to be made.
The worse part is the hardest earned.
Back and forth the struggle consumes us all.
Trying to keep a level head.
In the most unsetteling of times.
Today I'll become the bull"
-Atreyu - Becoming the Bull
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:43 PM   #4
RAGEN2008
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Most people I know starting off trying to gain max muscle "BULK" start doing a body part a week.

If you want to get big and try to compete in two years, you'd need to concentrate on bulking and then down the road work towards cutting down, if that's the case you need less cardio, less frequency, and concentrate on heavy core exercises and work from there.

List your workout exercises, sets and reps per body part, then every one will have a better idea what you are doing now and which direction to point you.

Either way as you add muscle you'll burn fat faster, at 15% you already have some so just work on the right diet and eat the right number of calories, I would be more concerned with gaining muscle then trying to shed off the fat right now, you'll gradually lose fat from working out period, but you're not going to get ripped and gain a lot of muscle at the same time, to get big you have to eat a lot and train heavy and that isn't going to make you thin and lean, that's why pro guys, bulk up first, then trim down to get cut.

It's easier to gain muscle faster by eating a lot vs. trying to stay on the lean side and add muscle on.

Get big 1st then get ripped.

List your exercises and what you're eating and I am sure a lot more people will jump in to help out once you have the specifics out there.
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:09 PM   #5
johnnyairwaves
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I agree with what you saying. I should bulk up 1st, then a Gainer shake is what I need over just the whey protein shake? I have mainly been sticking to this routine:

MONDAY
CHEST
Flat BarBell Bench 1SET 135lbsx1, 3SETS 185lbsx4
Incline Bench 1SET 115lbsx1, 3SETS 135lbsx4
Decline Bench 1SET 115lbsx1, 3SETS 135lbsx4
Pec deck 4SETS

TRICEPS
Pulldowns 4SETS 100lbs, 110lbs, 120lbs, 130lbsx10
Seated Tri Extensions 3SETS
Lying Pullovers 4SETS 75lbsx6

BICEPS
Standing Curls 1SET 35lbsx8, 3SETS 45lbsx6
21’s 2SETS 65lbs
Preacher Curls 3SETS 45lbsx6

BACK
Cable Rows Plate Progression>x4
DeadLiftx4
Hyperextensionsx4

ABS
Decline Leg Lifts or Reverse Crunches 3 x 20 reps
Decline Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Twisting Crunches 3 x 20 per

TUESDAY
Squats 4Sets 135lbsx6
Leg Curls Plate Progression>x10
Leg Extensions Plate Progression>x10
Calf Raises Plate Progression>x10

WEDNESDAY
CARDIO
ABS
Decline Leg Lifts or Reverse Crunches 3 x 20 reps
Decline Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Twisting Crunches 3 x 20 per



THURSDAY
Flat Dumbell Bench 1SET 60’slbsx1, 3SETS 65’slbsx4
Incline Dumbell Bench 1SET 45’slbsx1, 3SETS 50’slbsx4
Flat Bench Dumbell Flys 4SETSx30lbs

SHOULDERS
Seated Military press
Arnold presses
Upright rows Plate Progression>x10
Laterals Plate Progression>x10
Barbell shrugs

TRICEPS
Pulldowns 4SETS 100lbs, 110lbs, 120lbs, 130lbsx10
Seated Tri Extensions 3SETS
Lying Pullovers 4SETS 75lbsx6

BICEPS
Standing Curls 1SET 35lbsx8, 3SETS 45lbsx6
21’s 2SETS 65lbs
Preacher Curls 3SETS 45lbsx6

FOREARM
Palms-Down Dumbbell Wrist Curl Over A Bench 4SETSx10
Palms-Down Dumbbell Wrist Curl Over A Bench 4SETSx10

ABS
Decline Leg Lifts or Reverse Crunches 3 x 20 reps
Decline Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Twisting Crunches 3 x 20 per

FRIDAY
Squats 4Sets 135lbsx6
Leg Curls Plate Progression>x10
Leg Extensions Plate Progression>x10
Calf Raises Plate Progression>x10

ABS
Decline Leg Lifts or Reverse Crunches 3 x 20 reps
Decline Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Crunches 3 x 20
Cable Rope Twisting Crunches 3 x 20 per side

SATURDAY - REST
SUNDAY - REST
__________________


"Grab the bull by the horns the old addage goes.
nobody tells you where to go from there.
I see whats greatful in you.
Decisions have to be made.
The worse part is the hardest earned.
Back and forth the struggle consumes us all.
Trying to keep a level head.
In the most unsetteling of times.
Today I'll become the bull"
-Atreyu - Becoming the Bull
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:15 PM   #6
johnnyairwaves
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Eating

Morning - protein shake, 2 eggs and a smoothie
mid-morning - 1 cup oat bran oatmeal
Lunch- chicken or beef usually with brown rice and veggies
Mid afternoon - Oatmeal/granola bar with fruit
Dinner - chicken or beef usually with pasta and veggies
hour before bed - protein shake
__________________


"Grab the bull by the horns the old addage goes.
nobody tells you where to go from there.
I see whats greatful in you.
Decisions have to be made.
The worse part is the hardest earned.
Back and forth the struggle consumes us all.
Trying to keep a level head.
In the most unsetteling of times.
Today I'll become the bull"
-Atreyu - Becoming the Bull
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:35 PM   #7
RAGEN2008
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[quote=johnnyairwaves;505953]I agree with what you saying. I should bulk up 1st, then a Gainer shake is what I need over just the whey protein shake?

You really don't need a weight gain shake unless you don't have time to eat or enough calories or aren't getting enough protein, calculate your current calories and break them down into carbs, protein and fat.

If your current weight is 210 you need at least 210 grams of protein, which can be hard to get from food alone unless you eat A LOT.

That is where the protein powder and shakes comes in, lets face it, eating 2 pounds of chicken and 5 or 6 cans of tuna a day can be pretty hard to do LOL.

Look up in the nutrition section and get the recommended calories and what % needs to be carbs, protein and fats.


As far as your workout I am kind of confused:

You have a lot of good exercises but your reps seem low on some of them, to build bigger muscles you go between 6-12 reps, as far as your bench goes you're training like a power lifter, 4 reps isn't much for any exercise, especially 4 sets of 4.


I would maybe try :

Flat bench 1 warm up set 12 reps, 10 reps, 8 rep, 6 reps add weight to each set and do the same thing for your other exercises.

For chest I like flat bench, incline bench, and flys, you could add other exercises like dips, cable cross overs and pull overs, but if you're just starting I would keep it to 3 exercises, 4 tops x 3 sets each

For triceps I would do your current exercises but start with 12 reps and drop 2 reps each next set and add weight each set, if you like doing sets of 10 at least make sure you add weight each time.

Biceps I don't think I would do 21's every time, barbell and dumbbell curls with some preacher curls are great, keep the reps between 12-6 dropping reps and adding weight each set.

BACK
For back I would do dead lifts, wide grip pull ups or cable pull downs, shrugs and rows, mix it up but keep the key exercises.

ABS
Abs workout looks great

Legs I would do the same exercises but start at 12 and drop reps and add weight each set.

For shoulders I would do the seated presses, front raises
and side lateral raises.


Forearm work I like to do on the same day I curl since it gets them nice and warmed up.

Looking at your workout routine you're doing everybody part 2x a week, which for some guys is ok, not usually beginners, the main concern is in one day you do your entire upper body and even abs, which in my opinion is too much for one day.

So in short your workout week is :
day1 upper body
day 2 lower body
day 3 cardio
day 4 upper body
day 5 lower body
day 6 rest
day 7 rest

Which is pretty intense, 5 days straight and 4 of them with hardcore workouts doing 1/2 your body each day has to be over training you.

Monday alone you do *60* total sets of exercises Holy shit!

Like I said I am no pro, but 99% of pro bodybuilders don't do that in one day.

I would really consider taking a full week or two off, then starting a new routine with at minimum 3 or 4 separate workouts and only train each body part once a week until you work out at least a few months and see how your progress is.

Even if I couldn't talk you into 1 body part a week I would at least split your upper body into 2 separate days and legs a separate day with a rest day in the middle.

Something like;

day1 chest and back
day 2 arms
day 3 rest
day 4 legs
day 5 chest and back
day 6 arms
day 7 rest


Just a suggestion I am no pro, but I'll tell you if I workout 1/2 as hard as I did yesterday I wouldn't make it through your monday workout without a trip to the hospital after
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:56 PM   #8
johnnyairwaves
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Thanks for taking the time to reply to all that. I cannot eat that much food in one day so a gainer will have to do. I think my main problem is that I am not enough and I am over training along with it as you said, therefore not getting the results I want. I think I will scratch everything and start new and do the Jay Cutler program (but alternate every other week with doing them in supersets):

Below is taken from his site (jay cutler dot com) beginner body building.

Day 1: Chest & Triceps
Day 2: Back & Biceps
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Shoulders, Traps, Abs & Calves
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Off

Day 1 Working Sets
(sets x reps)
Barbell Bench Press 3 x 8-10
Incline Barbell Bench Press* 3 x 8-10
Flat Bench Dumbbell Flyes 3 x 8-10
Close-Grip Bench Presses 3 x 8-10
Lying Cambered Bar Extensions 3 x 8-10
Straight Bar Cable Pushdowns 3 x 8-10

* Every other workout, alternate Incline Barbell Bench Presses with Incline Dumbbell Presses.


Day 2* Working Sets
(sets x reps)
Pulldowns or Wide-Grip Pull-Ups 3 x 8-10
Low Cable Rows 3 x 8-10
Dumbbell Rows or Bent-Over Barbell Rows 3 x 8-10
Standing Barbell Curls 3 x 8-10
Alternating Dumbbell Curls** 3 x 8-10

* Since Low Cable Rows, Dubbell Rows and Bent-Over Barbell Rows work a lot of the biceps, you don't need a lot of additional biceps work. In fact, doing too many sets for biceps after a good back workout could case your biceps to become overworked, which will prevent them from growing.

** Dumbbell Curls can be done either standing or seated. Alternate from week to week between the two.


Day 3 Working Sets
(sets x reps)
Leg Extensions 3 x 8-10
Squats 4 x 8-10
Stiff-Legged Dead Lifts or Lying Leg Curls 3 x 8-10


Day 4 Working Sets
(sets x reps)
Seated Dumbbell Overhead Presses or Barbell Military Presses 3 x 8-10
Seated Dumbbell Lateral Raises 3 x 8-10
Bent-Over Rear Lateral Raises or Reverse Pec-Deck Lateral Raises 3 x 8-10
Barbell Shrugs 3 x 8-10
Seated Calf Raises 3 x 8-12
Standing Calf Raises 3 x 8-12
Ab crunches on a bench 3 x 12-15
Hanging Leg Raises (knees bent) 3 x 12-15
__________________


"Grab the bull by the horns the old addage goes.
nobody tells you where to go from there.
I see whats greatful in you.
Decisions have to be made.
The worse part is the hardest earned.
Back and forth the struggle consumes us all.
Trying to keep a level head.
In the most unsetteling of times.
Today I'll become the bull"
-Atreyu - Becoming the Bull
 
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:04 PM   #9
RAGEN2008
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That seems way better, I am doing legs right now and I felt good I am doing the same thing.

Squats 4 x 10

Leg Extensions 3 x 10

Lying Leg Curls 3 x 10

ditto with what you said, take a break, rest up and start over , I think you'll get much better gains.

I just did my 4 sets of squats holy crap I feel beat already and still have to do the rest lol.

Just curious why not do your calf workout on leg day?
 
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:29 AM   #10
johnnyairwaves
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I agree with the calves comment. Maybe it's some scientific reason...too much focus on one body area at one time will lead to less developement or something. Either way he's Mr. O so theres got to be something behind it.
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"Grab the bull by the horns the old addage goes.
nobody tells you where to go from there.
I see whats greatful in you.
Decisions have to be made.
The worse part is the hardest earned.
Back and forth the struggle consumes us all.
Trying to keep a level head.
In the most unsetteling of times.
Today I'll become the bull"
-Atreyu - Becoming the Bull
 
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