[Hayabusa402]

Just wondering how many people use negative reps and on which exercises

[ZiR RED]

Forced negatives I assume you mean? Every exercise you do (with the exception of a bi-concentric machine) has an eccentric phase to the rep.

Personally, when I am looking to increase power, I perform explosive negatives on bench presses, over head presses, lat pull downs, cables rows, and certain others.

Br

[KM]

Negative reps mean going half way because of muscle failure?

[Hayabusa402]

to clarify, focusing almost totally on the eccentric portion of an exercise on top of your completed reps. Sometimes even getting a spot for the accentric portion. usually taking between 3-5 seconds and fighting the gravitational pull as much as possible

[ZiR RED]

Chronic use, especially with big multijoint exercises, will drain your CNS and even lead to over training.

[gringo220]

I try to throw two sets of negatives in my chest workout once a month. I add a little more than my max and try to bring them down as slow as possible. I love the pump I get when i'm done doing them.

[ZiR RED]

Originally Posted by gringo220

I try to throw two sets of negatives in my chest workout once a month. I add a little more than my max and try to bring them down as slow as possible. I love the pump I get when i'm done doing them.

You should try explosive negatives with resistance bands on bench press.

[chrispghmuscle]

I do negatives on some of the last reps on most of my mult-compound excersizes. As long as you don't over due you should be good.

Just get your meals in and take time to recover.

[gringo220]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

You should try explosive negatives with resistance bands on bench press.

Explain what you mean about explosive negative reps. I don't know exactly what you mean by them.

[chrispghmuscle]

If you are using band on bench press the negative will will be stronger than a normal negative reps.. if you push up hard and control the down ward motion, that can be constude as an explosive neg rep..

But lets see his defination of it.. This will be interesting

[gringo220]

Originally Posted by chrispghmuscle

If you are using band on bench press the negative will will be stronger than a normal negative reps.. if you push up hard and control the down ward motion, that can be constude as an explosive neg rep..

But lets see his defination of it.. This will be interesting

Thanks chris! Most of the guys that go to my gym are power lifters and they are always using those bands. I've never used them but once in a while I will use chains.

[gringo220]

^^^
I guess I should add that I don't push the weight up myself I have a spotter pull up on it for me. I don't want to drain myself on the push.

[ZiR RED]

I should first say that I do not advice these to anyone who has shoulder problems or is a novice, it is an advanced technique.

The more force a muscle has to exert, the more motor units (groups of the same muscle fibers) will be recruited.

Motor units are recruited from smallest to largest, and often not all motor units are recruited.

Gravity pulls at an acceleration of 9.8 m/sec^2. Thats quite fast.

So, imagine two cars, one at the top of a hill just about to go over and one that is already coming down the hill. Which will take more force to stop?

Now, when benching for example, use a weight you can normally handle for 6-8 normal paced reps. Bring that weight down as fast as you can, and stop (or "catch") it a 1/2 inch off your chest. Pause for a second and explode back up. You will not be able to perform it for 6-8 reps this time. Why, because more muscle fibers have been recruited and fatigued faster.

Of course, there are benefits to a long, slow, 120-160% RM negative, most notably, a much longer time under tension.

Br

[Kaboom]

haha I thought this was gonna be about neg reps on the site lol

[gringo220]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

I should first say that I do not advice these to anyone who has shoulder problems or is a novice, it is an advanced technique.

The more force a muscle has to exert, the more motor units (groups of the same muscle fibers) will be recruited.

Motor units are recruited from smallest to largest, and often not all motor units are recruited.

Gravity pulls at an acceleration of 9.8 m/sec^2. Thats quite fast.

So, imagine two cars, one at the top of a hill just about to go over and one that is already coming down the hill. Which will take more force to stop?

Now, when benching for example, use a weight you can normally handle for 6-8 normal paced reps. Bring that weight down as fast as you can, and stop (or "catch") it a 1/2 inch off your chest. Pause for a second and explode back up. You will not be able to perform it for 6-8 reps this time. Why, because more muscle fibers have been recruited and fatigued faster.

Of course, there are benefits to a long, slow, 120-160% RM negative, most notably, a much longer time under tension.

Br

Wow sounds kind of painful. I doubt I will be tring these because I have good shoulders and I kind of want to keep them that way but thanks for the thought!

[Stone_Sour]

lol I agree with you kaboom, I was like how do you get negative reps? But then again, I have none lol

[Cork]

Sometimes I do slow negative on squats.... My hamstrings will be sore for 4 days atleast. I always toss in some long negatives to break up the pace. Especially the training I am doing now is focusing on slow negatives. It's killer.

[ZiR RED]

Originally Posted by gringo220

Wow sounds kind of painful. I doubt I will be tring these because I have good shoulders and I kind of want to keep them that way but thanks for the thought!

How would they damage your shoulders (assuming you are using correct form) than a slow negative?

[gringo220]

Originally Posted by ZiR RED

I should first say that I do not advice these to anyone who has shoulder problems or is a novice, it is an advanced technique.

The more force a muscle has to exert, the more motor units (groups of the same muscle fibers) will be recruited.

Motor units are recruited from smallest to largest, and often not all motor units are recruited.

Gravity pulls at an acceleration of 9.8 m/sec^2. Thats quite fast.

So, imagine two cars, one at the top of a hill just about to go over and one that is already coming down the hill. Which will take more force to stop?

Now, when benching for example, use a weight you can normally handle for 6-8 normal paced reps. Bring that weight down as fast as you can, and stop (or "catch") it a 1/2 inch off your chest. Pause for a second and explode back up. You will not be able to perform it for 6-8 reps this time. Why, because more muscle fibers have been recruited and fatigued faster.

Of course, there are benefits to a long, slow, 120-160% RM negative, most notably, a much longer time under tension.

Br

The last thing I want to do is try to stop 225lbs from falling. I've always been the kind of person who tries to keep a smooth clean form and not bounce or jar the weight around. But if they work for you than thats good but I doubt ill try them. Thanks for the thought!

[ZiR RED]

If you've ever looked into some of the training programs of athletes that are required to produce a great deal of force, you will see they use this technique. Theres no bouncing or jarring, for that would surely increase the risk of injury.

Don't take me the wrong way, I do fully respect your opinion. The last thing I want is someone attempting this technique who A. is just starting out, or B. cannot keep correct form (shoulders abducted no more than 45 degrees, scapula squeezed together, etc.)

Br

[mabo]

Now, when benching for example, use a weight you can normally handle for 6-8 normal paced reps. Bring that weight down as fast as you can, and stop (or "catch") it a 1/2 inch off your chest. Pause for a second and explode back up. You will not be able to perform it for 6-8 reps this time. Why, because more muscle fibers have been recruited and fatigued faster.

Can you explain how more muscle fibers are recruited?

I would imagine you get less reps due to spending more time under tension as a result of pausing at the bottom for so long.

[monkeybiker]

are you guys talking about.

Negative reps as I understand them are when you just train the negative part of the rep using a weight that you could not normally lift.

They can be used well with pull ups were you could stand on a chair or bench to get to the top position and slowly lower yourself.

[ZiR RED]

Originally Posted by mabo

Can you explain how more muscle fibers are recruited?

I would imagine you get less reps due to spending more time under tension as a result of pausing at the bottom for so long.

It's simple physics, the more force a muscle must generate, the more muscle fibers will be recruited.

Stopping an object thats accelerating at 9.8m/sec^2 (the speed of gravity) requires much more force than slowly lowering the same object. At the same time, the faster you must accelerate and object, the more force that will need to be generated.

Of course, thats physics. Time under tension plays an equally important role, and unfortunately, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can use explosive reps while maintaining a longer duration of time under tension.

So both aspects should be used to maximize muscle and strength gain.

Br

[mabo]

It's simple physics, the more force a muscle must generate, the more muscle fibers will be recruited.

It's not quite that simple when muscle physiology is involved, there are more factors to think about.

Skeletal muscle can is stronger contracting eccentrically compared to concentrically. For a given load you actually use less muscle fibers to lower it compared to lifting it.

But the fibers that get recruiting during the eccentric phase produce more force.

So for a given weight and exercise, e.g. a biceps curl with 10lbs, you recruit more fibers to raise it than to lower it.

[ZiR RED]

You are right, performing a super slow eccentric will result in less recruitment since the muscles are stronger. Muscles are strongest contracting isometrically.

However, lowering the weight without any resistance then stopping it at the very bottom of the ROM requires a great deal of force. The weight is accelerating at 9.82m/sec2, which is far greater than one would be able to move the given weight on the concentric phase.

Did that clarify?

Originally Posted by mabo

It's not quite that simple when muscle physiology is involved, there are more factors to think about.

Skeletal muscle can is stronger contracting eccentrically compared to concentrically. For a given load you actually use less muscle fibers to lower it compared to lifting it.

But the fibers that get recruiting during the eccentric phase produce more force.

So for a given weight and exercise, e.g. a biceps curl with 10lbs, you recruit more fibers to raise it than to lower it.

[mabo]

My apologies, your first post explained things well enough just I didn't read it properly the first time around.

You seem quite well educated, do you work in the industry or is just a hobby?

[ZiR RED]

Originally Posted by mabo

My apologies, your first post explained things well enough just I didn't read it properly the first time around.

You seem quite well educated, do you work in the industry or is just a hobby?

I work as a personal trainer, and (assuming I get accepted) will be at Uconn in the fall working on my masters in exercise science, to which I'd love to work as a strength coach for an NFL team (my buddy just finished the program and is assistant strength coach for the colts).

How about yourself.

Br

[mabo]

Cool, good luck to you with it all. Working as a strength coach for an NFL team sounds like an awesome career.

I'm accredited as an exercise physiologist, but at the moment I'm just working as a trainer/floor work at a small gym. I've only been out of uni a few months, so I've still got a lot to learn.

At the moment looking for work in cardiac rehab rather than the sports side of things.