[post]

Originally Posted by q80_muscleHed

right i know some peaple train their bi's with chest and the folowing day they train their tri's with back .. how could the muscle got fast recuperation ?

Macbain and musclehead- your right! It dosent make sense becuase it is nonsense.

While it is absolutely true that the more frequently you can train a body-part and recover and grow the faster you will achieve your goals it's TOTALLY USELESS to train before you have recovered


You would be amazed how many stages you body goes through after a workout just to build itself back up to the pervious rate it once was before you worked out, let-alone supercompensate to add new muscle, that is where the magic happens in supercompensation,


alor of peole do better squatting once every 10 days or so, the trick is to start low and find out how much your body can tolerate without overtraining,

- BOTH of you need to go check out ironaddicts.com and register and never look back- it will change your life.

Try an abbreviated routine for 6 weeks, 6weeks thats all you have to do and you will never go back to training with lame ass routines again- DO it and send me a PM when you register over there bro- I will help you out getting one started
my handle is wrangle.

[post]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

AAS significantly increases recovery periods, thats a common fact. However, that doesnt mean a natural bodybuilder should train 2-3 days a week with 6 sets per bodypart once a week, staying short of failure, that is a joke. I am a natural who is planning on competing at some pretty big shows soon. In all honestly, the more often you workout, the better. You experience the anabolic endocrine effects of training every time you workout, with a proper split, you can plan things out so you can train every day. The whole CNS burning is total BS, if you are decidated and plan your training and huge eating. Heres a quote from one of my professors "Resistance training with its typical short duration sets and relatively long rest periods will not cause the same neuromuscular response as endurance training. That does not mean there will not be any effect on the CNS, only that the CNS impairment will be significantly less with shorter duration or intermittent activity."

Come on now bro-are you going to start reccommending everyone train 6 days a week
"the more often you workout the better"- that is the dumbest fuckin statement I have ever heard- you dont grow in the gym-I am sure you know that due to your extensive education it seems like.
How big is your professor?-LOL honestly you can hardly learn shit about strength training in college bro- and the good things that very few professors have to say you must take with a grain of salt. abotu the only thing I learned in college in relation to strength training is how to read studies critically, thats it.
my real education has come from being in the gym with competitave powerlifters and plain trial and error on what works.
I am not trying to be an ass and I hope you do well at your shows but step outside the box and think bro- its not that hard!!

[post]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Going to failure is superior, you recruit a lot more muscle fibers and take advantage of many other physiological responses. I have discused this with a professor who is well known in the scientific community. You will not "burn out" your central nervous system, it is far more taxing on the CNS to go for a middle distance run then do a set of squats to failure.

do you actually think it is more taxing on your CNS to go for a run or do a rest-pause set of 20 rep squats with 315lbs(or whatever weight is heavy for you)??

once again- I would like to see your professor do both and then see what he thinks after that.

[GoingBiG]

Originally Posted by SmallButGettingThere

find me proof. I'm not arguing they build faster cause all you have to do is look at the mr. olypmia competition. However I don't think recooperation time is shorter with roids.

I wrote that AAS highers the proteinsynthesis and make positiv nitrogenbalance in the muscles... And wan't you think really doesn't matter cause it's a fact that it do

[H.I.T.m-a-n]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Agree with goingbig, naturals can train pretty much as hard and frequent, i like every 4-5 days per part. Too many people use overtraining as an excuse. I do the two a day trainings also and find them amazing.

Hitman, please back up your claims with science.

Well I can't it prove it with studies... I mean, I can post a lot of articles which recomends train each muscle once a week, but they can't prove anything, because every human is different.
Most my buddies are training each muscle more than one time a week, because they thinks more=better, they can't understand that they are growing when they sleep, when resting. Some of them grab, for example, ronnie workout, add some more exercise for biceps, chest, for the same reason - more=better. But they don't grow. For example then I began lifting I was interested in m.mentzer training, my workout was based on mentzer's methods (high intensity, heavy weights,each muscle once 1-2 weeks, 1-2 exercise per muscle group, 1 "real" set, negative reps, short workout). Reusults: after about 1,5 year of training I added about 5 inches on my arm with no roids, even no supps, just lot of food & vitamins. Well before I began training I was very skinny guy, but I don't think that if I would used high-volume, frequent trainings I would achieved such results.

[Ironslave]

Post, for your information i am a certified trainer with experience in training recreational lifters, but also athletes, including athletes at the semi pro, Division 1, and two professional atheltes. Ive got plenty of hands on experience.

My professor himself was also a pro athlete. Who has contributed to dozens of cutting edge research, and also serves as a consultant for division 1 and professional teams. It is rediculous to say you can learn shit about strength training in college. This is the human body, science dictates what works, the more you understand it, the better. I know what my professor would say to which is more taxing, a set of 20 rep 315 squats or a run. He would say something along the lines of during endurence activities you will accumulate metabolites that will impair CNS functioning, such as increased 5-HT due to severe glycogenolysis & where BCAA/FFA's are oxidized leading to an increase in f-tryp absorption through the blood brain barrier. Further, ammonia is built up during endurence activities, impairing CNS functioning. Also, glucose will be reduced, and im sure you have learned through your ironaddicts site that glucose is the only source of fuel for the CNS. So i think he would say endurence activity is far more taxing on the CNS

Also, 315 for 20 reps isnt all that much .

[SmallButGettingThere]

A natural body builder should train by working his ass off with eating right and making sure to do atleast half an hour of cardio a day.

[BigmanB]

i train naturally I eat like a motherfuka though at times I will have like 7 peices of chicken,chicken salad with corn,onions,and other stuff in it,2-3 sodas,2 cups of potatoes and some cookies or candy for 1 meal.

[post]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Post, for your information i am a certified trainer with experience in training recreational lifters, but also athletes, including athletes at the semi pro, Division 1, and two professional atheltes. Ive got plenty of hands on experience.

My professor himself was also a pro athlete. Who has contributed to dozens of cutting edge research, and also serves as a consultant for division 1 and professional teams. It is rediculous to say you can learn shit about strength training in college. This is the human body, science dictates what works, the more you understand it, the better. I know what my professor would say to which is more taxing, a set of 20 rep 315 squats or a run. He would say something along the lines of during endurence activities you will accumulate metabolites that will impair CNS functioning, such as increased 5-HT due to severe glycogenolysis & where BCAA/FFA's are oxidized leading to an increase in f-tryp absorption through the blood brain barrier. Further, ammonia is built up during endurence activities, impairing CNS functioning. Also, glucose will be reduced, and im sure you have learned through your ironaddicts site that glucose is the only source of fuel for the CNS. So i think he would say endurence activity is far more taxing on the CNS

Also, 315 for 20 reps isnt all that much .

so what association are you certified from, you know pretty much all certification programs are a joke right??

and as to saying 315 for 20 reps isn't that much, can you put that up?
have you ever done true 20 rep sqts?

if you cant match those numbers you dont have room to say that thats not alot

your professor is full of shit- think about it bro , dont just take something someone says at face value!!

[GoingBiG]

Originally Posted by post

Come on now bro-are you going to start reccommending everyone train 6 days a week
"the more often you workout the better"- that is the dumbest fuckin statement I have ever heard- you dont grow in the gym-I am sure you know that due to your extensive education it seems like.
How big is your professor?-LOL honestly you can hardly learn shit about strength training in college bro- and the good things that very few professors have to say you must take with a grain of salt. abotu the only thing I learned in college in relation to strength training is how to read studies critically, thats it.
my real education has come from being in the gym with competitave powerlifters and plain trial and error on what works.
I am not trying to be an ass and I hope you do well at your shows but step outside the box and think bro- its not that hard!!

It could be you who should step outside the box and think?

your professor is full of shit- think about it bro , dont just take something someone says at face value!!

So by saying that we can't believe you either...

I agree with hdogg in the most things he says(except the CNS thing, but we have had that discussion)..

[Ironslave]

Thanks goingbig.

Post, you obviously didnt pick up on what the wink was for my last post talking about the weight. How the hell is my professor full of shit? I just proved you wrong by explaining from a physiological standpoint why a set of squats is less taxing on the CNS then a run, and all you can say is thats full of shit? Do me a favor, go to www.humankinetics.com, pick up a physiology text book, read, then come back and finish this discussion, because you sir know nothing about the Central Nervous System. Its a good rule for any topic, if you don't know the answer to something, stay out of it.

[post]

Originally Posted by hdogg345

Thanks goingbig.

Post, you obviously didnt pick up on what the wink was for my last post talking about the weight. How the hell is my professor full of shit? I just proved you wrong by explaining from a physiological standpoint why a set of squats is less taxing on the CNS then a run, and all you can say is thats full of shit? Do me a favor, go to www.humankinetics.com, pick up a physiology text book, read, then come back and finish this discussion, because you sir know nothing about the Central Nervous System. Its a good rule for any topic, if you don't know the answer to something, stay out of it.

you just proved you have no common sense bro- I tried to be nice but I think you are a joke, the warmup sets alon will affect your CNS more than the run, let alone the work set! IT will pound you into the ground if done CORRECTLY. now I dont know if you now how to squat correctly- mabye you load 135 on the bar and do 3/4 squats, if so that will still be harder on your CNS than a run- it is full of shit plain and simple- thats not scientific, that is common sense and if you cant see that then I feel sorry for ya. yes I have studied the nervous system and all those boring classes to which you hold so dear, I come to this foum when I need a good laugh or I see someone I can help- odviously alot of people are too far brainwashed for it to make a difference here - go read a book and keep training 6 days a week and advising people to train 6 days a week, sometimes twice in one day, I honestly hope you do becuase it is people like you that make my money for me. when people come to me for help becuase they arnt growing on shit routines that lame ass trainers put them on its easy to fix and they never look back,

by the way you never answered my post on what your numbers were- you said 315 X20 wasnt that much so odviously you just blow me out of the water with how much stronger you are than me- so I am curious what you got.
if you dont lift more than me mabye you should take some of my advice!

[post]

Originally Posted by GoingBiG

It could be you who should step outside the box and think?



So by saying that we can't believe you either...

I agree with hdogg in the most things he says(except the CNS thing, but we have had that discussion)..

I am already outsied the box! when I began lifting I lifted the way the mags said and the way so called expert trainers in the field said to lift- doing 5 day a week workouts and 6-day a week workouts, sometimes twice a day and I fuond out they are worthless- I learned the hardway, so I try to help people so they dont have to.

you should just try it and then you wont have to take my word for it- you will have proof it works, believe me if you want or not- I dotn expect anyone ont his board to listen.