Members
 Register


Rules | Articles | Arcade | Members List

 
Go Back   Bodybuilding Dungeon > Nutrition / Training > Training
 

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Slow cardio
Old 06-12-2006, 12:23 PM   #1
Ice
NPC Lightweight

 
Ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 0Ice is an unknown quantity at this point

Ice is offline
  Reply With Quote

I know there are other threads here about the pace of cardio people like to use, but I came across this article on BodyBuilding.com. It basically says that by doing slower cardio you can "skip" the carbs and go straight to burning fat. I know Bob Chick is a pro, but it's pretty much contrary to most of the other stuff I've heard and read over the years. What do you guys think? Is there any truth to this? Discuss. Thanks!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bobchic3.htm
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Ice Find More Posts by Ice
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 12:36 PM   #2
Diesel
Banned

 
Diesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Somewheres
Age: 21
Posts: 2,892
Rep Power: 0Diesel is an unknown quantity at this point

Diesel is offline
  Reply With Quote

yes, its true. Depending on age your heart rate needs to be in a certain range to get to strictly burning fat.

You will always get scientific crap about this way or that way. HIIT has worked wonders for people as far as I know. It all depends on what your body responds best to and what you enjoy more.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Visit Diesel's homepage! Find More Posts by Diesel
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:24 PM   #3
fog_hat1981
NPC Middleweight

 
fog_hat1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
Rep Power: 9fog_hat1981 will become famous soon enough

fog_hat1981 is offline
  Reply With Quote

Where is Jorn - I know that he will pose some opposition to this viewpoint...
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to fog_hat1981 Find More Posts by fog_hat1981
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:26 PM   #4
Lineski
Banned

 
Lineski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,028
Rep Power: 0Lineski is an unknown quantity at this point

Lineski is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by fog_hat1981
Where is Jorn - I know that he will pose some opposition to this viewpoint...
I'm looking forward to it
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Find More Posts by Lineski
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:27 PM   #5
fog_hat1981
NPC Middleweight

 
fog_hat1981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
Rep Power: 9fog_hat1981 will become famous soon enough

fog_hat1981 is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineski367
I'm looking forward to it
Glad to have you on this thread. Are you planning on posting opposing views on Jorn's opposing views ....
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to fog_hat1981 Find More Posts by fog_hat1981
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:34 PM   #6
jornT
Banned

 
jornT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 4,002
Rep Power: 0jornT is an unknown quantity at this point

jornT is offline
  Reply With Quote

When doing cardio, we need to consider something known as substrate utilization, which is the process of using different sources of fuel for energy. During moderate intensity cardio (65-75% of max HR), roughly 50% of substrate utilization is from fats, where triglycerides (stored fats) are broken back down into 3 fatty acids and 1 glycerol molecule. The glycerol molecule then undergoes a series of chemical reactions known as beta oxidation, where it is converted to glucose and burned for energy. The remaining 50% comes from carbohydrates, with 80% of that being muscle glycogen. As exercise intensity increases, fat oxidation decreases. So by going real hard, you will burn more total calories, however less will be from fat.

The best time to do this cardio is roughly 2 hours after a normal meal with low GI carbs and protein. When waking, your body is in a catabolic state. Glycogen is depleted, so cortisol levels are high to break down muscle into glucose so you must eat asap, exercise will drastically increase cortisol. A study by Sotsky MJ, Shilo S, Shamoon H. (1989) tested the effects of moderate intensity cycling (60% of max HR) in normal and low glucose (empty stomach) conditions. In the normal glucose conditions, cortisol did not increase significantly, while in the low glucose conditions, cortisol increased by 400%.

As for cardio after a workout, it is been shown that you have a 30 minute time frame after a workout where you must ingest nutrients to replenish muscle glycogen, or else glycogen uptake is severely restricted, and other benefits are eliminated such as the increased protein synthesis, GH/test increases, etc. The only thing you should be worried about after a workout is getting a proper shake and meal.

So to conclude, the best cardio is at 65%-75% of max HR. The longer you do this, the more you will oxidize fats. I would reccomend this cardio at least 2 times a week at around 45 mins at a time on bulks, and would up it to 4-5 times on a cut.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Find More Posts by jornT
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:41 PM   #7
jornT
Banned

 
jornT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 4,002
Rep Power: 0jornT is an unknown quantity at this point

jornT is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel

You will always get scientific crap about this way or that way. HIIT has worked wonders for people as far as I know. It all depends on what your body responds best to and what you enjoy more.
HIIT is very good imo.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Find More Posts by jornT
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:43 PM   #8
Lineski
Banned

 
Lineski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,028
Rep Power: 0Lineski is an unknown quantity at this point

Lineski is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by jornT
So to conclude, the best cardio is at 65%-75% of max HR. The longer you do this, the more you will oxidize fats. I would reccomend this cardio at least 2 times a week at around 45 mins at a time on bulks, and would up it to 4-5 times on a cut.
That's exactly what I have gathered through my studies of being a Kinesiology student and research I've done outside of the classroom as well.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Find More Posts by Lineski
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:46 PM   #9
jornT
Banned

 
jornT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Age: 21
Posts: 4,002
Rep Power: 0jornT is an unknown quantity at this point

jornT is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineski367
That's exactly what I have gathered through my studies of being a Kinesiology student and research I've done outside of the classroom as well.
LOL, the text is originally written by Ironslave, who studied....kinesiology.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Find More Posts by jornT
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 01:57 PM   #10
Ice
NPC Lightweight

 
Ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 0Ice is an unknown quantity at this point

Ice is offline
  Reply With Quote

Max HR = 220 - age?
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Ice Find More Posts by Ice
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 05:50 PM   #11
Ironslave
IFBB Lightweight

 
Ironslave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 23
Posts: 1,406
Rep Power: 50Ironslave is a glorious beacon of light

Ironslave is offline
  Reply With Quote

LOL, if u didnt get me credit i was gonna ban you.

Honestly, i wrote that over a year ago, sure yeah for pure fat buring, slow is good. However, now i think the best way is to do 20 minutes balls out high intensity sprints, followed by 20-30 minutes slow steady cardio.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Ironslave Find More Posts by Ironslave
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 08:13 PM   #12
tim290280
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Age: 30
Posts: 811
Rep Power: 0tim290280 is an unknown quantity at this point

tim290280 is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Max HR = 220 - age?
Only according to personal trainers and doctors. Normal people would have to actually test that (just like your 1RM).

Quote:
However, now i think the best way is to do 20 minutes balls out high intensity sprints, followed by 20-30 minutes slow steady cardio.
I agree with that. Low intensity stuff doesn't have the benefits for fitness that high intensity stuff does.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Visit tim290280's homepage! Find More Posts by tim290280
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 10:45 PM   #13
Ironslave
IFBB Lightweight

 
Ironslave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 23
Posts: 1,406
Rep Power: 50Ironslave is a glorious beacon of light

Ironslave is offline
  Reply With Quote

By fat burning, i mean % of fatty acids oxidized as a source of fuel, NOT overall fat loss. I think the protocol i listed above is pretty close to ideal.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Ironslave Find More Posts by Ironslave
 
 
Old 06-12-2006, 11:04 PM   #14
BigBen
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,795
Rep Power: 0BigBen is an unknown quantity at this point

BigBen is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironslave
LOL, if u didnt get me credit i was gonna ban you.

Honestly, i wrote that over a year ago, sure yeah for pure fat buring, slow is good. However, now i think the best way is to do 20 minutes balls out high intensity sprints, followed by 20-30 minutes slow steady cardio.

That sounds correct.

Lets say if thsi was precontest. U would do that before breakfast obviously. Heres where my worry would come in: The 20 mins all out sprint would obviously burn fat, but when u slwo down and do the lwoer intensity for 20 more mins wouldn't that be muscle waisting bcause of the 20 mins high intensity before it.

i guess really what im asking is when does fat burning turn into muscle waisting?
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!