[purenatural]

think a major error in weight training today is how we categorize exercises. Miscategorization of exercises has led to overtraining, stunted growth of some body parts, and a shift toward less effective isolation exercises.

What am I talking about? Let's look at a few examples. The bench press is a "chest" exercise; however, it heavily works the shoulders and triceps. Chins and rows are "back" exercises; however, they heavily work the biceps and to an extent the deltoids. Dips done with a close grip are a "triceps" exercise, but they work the chest and shoulders to some extent no matter how close you are or how vertical your body. Squats are a "leg" exercise, but they heavily work the lower back and hamstrings. You get the idea.

Now, let's look at a typical bodybuilding routine for chest and triceps day. It might look something like:

BB Flat Bench Press 4x6
DB Incline Bench Press 4x6
Flys 2x8

Tricep Dips 4x6
Tricep Pushdowns 4x6

Well, it looks like a good routine, but in effect, the trainee would be doing 16 sets for triceps in total counting the chest work and the triceps work. I don't know of many people whose triceps will grow if they do 16 sets.

Let's look at a typical bodybuilding routine for back and biceps.

Wide Grip Pulldowns 4x6
Seated Cable Rows 4x6
Dumbbell Rows 3x6

BB Curls 4x6
Seated DB Curls 3x6

Here, the trainee would be doing 18 sets of bicep work. Again, it's not likely that he/she is going to achieve optimal growth. It's no wonder that probably 9 out of every 10 guys I see in my gym, in other gyms, and at natural bodybuilding competitions have poor arm development, poor shoulder development, and poor hamstring development. Arms, in particular, are horribly overtrained.

So, how should we think about categorizing exercises? I would propose that we not think of exercises for particular muscles but rather "muscle complexes". I would categorize exercises into the chest/tricep complex, the shoulder/tricep complex, the back/bicep complex, the lower back/hamstring complex, etc. You would do a total number of sets for each complex instead of each muscle.

Probably the biggest change this would create would be drastically less direct arm training, less direct shoulder training, and less direct hamstring training. I can generally say that guys I've trained with based on muscle complexes instead of muscles are more balanced in their muscular development.

[tim290280]

This is again why split training is a load of wank.

[xtweak05]

so your saying whats worked for lifters for over 50 years is bad and overtraining? I beg to differ, look at Steve Reeves, Bill Pearl, Sergio Olivia, Arnold, Columbo, c'mon man. I dont like this article.

[MOCCHA MAN]

Originally Posted by xtweak05

so your saying whats worked for lifters for over 50 years is bad and overtraining? I beg to differ, look at Steve Reeves, Bill Pearl, Sergio Olivia, Arnold, Columbo, c'mon man. I dont like this article.

U DO REALISE EACH ONE OF THESE GUYS TRAINED VERY DIFFRENTLY.

AnD YES EXERCIES SHOULD NOT BE CATOGARISED IN THIS WAY. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ISOLATION EXERCISE.

AND IF U RESPOND TO THIS SAYING YES THERE IS THEN PLEASE GO GET HELP BECAUSE U MUST BE ON CRACK

[De_battre]

Where is this article from?

[aefx2387]

Your not necessarliy doing 16 sets of triceps seeing as the chest exercises uses the front deltoid and triceps as a SECONDARY muscle, therefore its getting very minimal work and if your such a girly man about it split it up and do arms on their own day

[purenatural]

Originally Posted by xtweak05

so your saying whats worked for lifters for over 50 years is bad and overtraining? I beg to differ, look at Steve Reeves, Bill Pearl, Sergio Olivia, Arnold, Columbo, c'mon man. I dont like this article.

Well I was aiming at unassissted people and who think of training like pro's and expect to make alot of gains and gains just like them then they most likely not gonna make any. For 2 reasons, drugs and genetics.

[tim290280]

Originally Posted by aefx2387

Your not necessarliy doing 16 sets of triceps seeing as the chest exercises uses the front deltoid and triceps as a SECONDARY muscle, therefore its getting very minimal work and if your such a girly man about it split it up and do arms on their own day

Just because it is a secondary muscle group to an exercise doesn't mean that it is not being taxed heavily in the other motions. Plenty of people have shoulder problems due to bench pressing, yet they are only a secondary muscle, so by your logic they, shouldn't hurt them!

And as for calling people "girly men" for not doing split training, I'll pass that on to the elite athletes, and power lifters who don't do split training. You have a lot to learn.

[aefx2387]

tell the elite athletes and powerlifters i said hello, thats good for them do i care? no

[aefx2387]

and also people who get shoulder pain, thats not working a muscle, thats improper form and technique that usually leads to shoulder pain, its not because their front deltoid is being heavily taxed

[tim290280]

Originally Posted by aefx2387

and also people who get shoulder pain, thats not working a muscle, thats improper form and technique that usually leads to shoulder pain, its not because their front deltoid is being heavily taxed

Actully no.

Shoulder pain can be any number of things, and it doesn't have to be bad form that causes it.

And I wasn't saying shoulder pain was anything to do with the front deltoid. Most shoulder pain is related to the rotors in the shoulder joint.