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do u agree with me
Old 03-04-2006, 04:04 PM   #1
qweasd
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lifting heavy wieghts gives u the power and make ur lighter lifts more controlable ,, but in same time it doesnt give me good pump so i dont feel them in building high quality muscles due to low rep range and nt perfect control .. one other hand u listen some guys of 16 and 17 who didint control thier bladder yet ,,saying that the can lift 400 hundred pound and 500 hundred or even 600 hundreds in hard lifts like bench press ? u agree?
 
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Old 03-04-2006, 04:13 PM   #2
Rocky
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I'm not sure what you re trying to say with the last sentence, but I agre with you that heavy weights isn't the be-all and end-all when it comes to bodybuilding. If you look at powerlifters (the majority of them), they wouldn't get a second look in a BBing contest. At the end of the day, the way to build muscle and mass is to stress the muiscle in the optimum way for YOU! The case may be for some people to use heavy weight for 4 - 6 reps and only 1 or 2 sets. For others it may be 12 reps of a lighter weight for 3 or 4 sets. You've said yourself that using heavy weights doesn't give you the results, so lighten the weight, slow the reps up and increase the reps. It's all about what works best for the individual.
Besides, most 16 and 17 yr olds talk out of their arse when it comes to their lifts in order to look big! :)
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Old 03-04-2006, 04:15 PM   #3
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Show me 16/17 kid that lifts 400 in bench press. 500 and 600, most lifters can only dream about that. It's internet, what do you care about the numbers people claim they get up?

Anyway, getting the pump doesn't mean you grow. Lifting heavy ass weight for low reps will make you grow for sure. Now don't get me wrong and just do low reps, use variation bro!
 
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:24 PM   #4
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i think u need more sentence structuring before i know what to answer to :S?
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:48 PM   #5
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It's the duration ur under load.

factor 1) Lift heavy weights increases load on the muscle
factor 2) "Momentum" When decreasing rep speed u decrease momentum. Momentum being an outside force will release tension off the muscle.
factor3) "Time" The longer a muscle is under continous tension the more stimulation(duration of load) it will recieve)

It these things u should consider when weight trainning I posted an article about it earlier in this thread the physic's of weight trainning
 
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canablistic_Turnip
It's the duration ur under load.

factor 1) Lift heavy weights increases load on the muscle
factor 2) "Momentum" When decreasing rep speed u decrease momentum. Momentum being an outside force will release tension off the muscle.
factor3) "Time" The longer a muscle is under continous tension the more stimulation(duration of load) it will recieve)

It these things u should consider when weight trainning I posted an article about it earlier in this thread the physic's of weight trainning
It's not only the duration under the load, you got to see how the tension is build up under that. I hate those superslow stuff, because you work with a slower % of your 1rm which is a much better indicator for intensity.
 
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:51 AM   #7
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There are definent proven benifits to high reps, just as there is for low reps, as long as you know when to use what, you will have half the battle won.

Reps can be an individual thing. I usually have a rep range of 8-12, but at the moment I am doing a program with ranges of 3-5.
I do not agree with jornT statement about PUMP as without pump we do not get a quality stretch of the muscle fascia wich is needed to help alleviate the restrictive tightness on the muscle fibress belly. As long as you are maxing out on your final reps and your intensity is good this should help with a pump.

Some comments just to back up what Turnip is getting at (I think loooo).

Q:Is there any value to a BB doing sets of 20 or more reps?

A:Sets of 20 or more reps are indicated in some instances:
1)Sets of of 20 or more reps work extremely well in certain forms of squats and deadlifts, and, of course, on the leg press high reps can be very effective at creating hypertrophy. These exercises make full use of the stretch-shortening capability of the muscle involved. For example, doing sets of 20 on dumbbell deadlifts is one of the quickest ways to pack pounds on to a lean frame. Studies have also shown that on bench press a load of 70% of maximum will give an individual 12 reps, while at the same % of leg press maximum he or she can perform 40 reps.
20 rep squats were the foundation of many quik-mass-development programs year ago. Entire books cenrered on that methodology have been written, and the system is result-inducing for those willing to work hard.
These exercises train muscles that tend to have a greater portion of lower-threshold fibres than other muscle groups, hence the need for higher reps.

HERE IS THE PART WHERE jorT & Turnip disagree (I think loool)
2)For most trainees hypertrophy comes from repeated efforts of 40-70 seconds under tension per set . Therefore, depending on the range of motion and the tempo at which each rep is executed, sets of 20 can create hypertrophy. Calf training and forearm training are perfect examples.
3)Periodic phases of 20 rep per set let the central nervous system and the joints recover from all the pounding they get from normal workouts. For example, if you just did a 12-week peaking program to achieve new max weights in the front squat and the power clean, doing a few weeks of 20 rep sets will leave you refreshed for a new strenght cycle aiming at personal bests, say, in the power snatch and squat.
High-rep phases don't need to be long. Usually one to three weeks does the trick for most individuals.
4)Another method of using high reps effectively is to conclude each bodypart workout with a 20-rep set. It's a great way to knock off the lower threshold motor units once you've done your quality heavy work. That's a very good plateau buster for hypertrophy training. Make sure you do the back-off set on an exercise that involves a lot of motor units. For example, for triceps the close grip bench press is a much wiser choice than rope pushdowns.

Info came from an article by Charles Poliquin. (so don't bite my head off loool)
 
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:45 AM   #8
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I didn't say I don't like high reps. I do them for a week every 2 months, to increase capillary density, strengthening connective tissue, additional sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and increased lactic acid threshold.
Nor did I say the pump is bad, it's just not the only way to grow. Ever tried 5x5? You wont get pumps from it, but you will grow.
 
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:43 PM   #9
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i see we dont have to make bb a mere science ,, i think bb is more about ur feeling
u feel u get good load on muscles and good tension ok. its grow.. its nt so complicated,,in my last rep of curling barbell for example i cant wait a min and think of lactic acid burning my muscle due to anaerobic metabolism... i only think into overcoming pain ,,so lets speak about practicle things ..such how important psyching up sepecially in lifting heavy wts and all thing help to achieve the mixture between concentaration and detemenation in my lifts,, sorry i cant think in my mitochondria and endoplasmic reticulum in that war with wts ,, do u agree with me?
 
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:45 PM   #10
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All good points. I like it. :)
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qweasd
i see we dont have to make bb a mere science ,, i think bb is more about ur feeling
u feel u get good load on muscles and good tension ok. its grow.. its nt so complicated,,in my last rep of curling barbell for example i cant wait a min and think of lactic acid burning my muscle due to anaerobic metabolism... i only think into overcoming pain ,,so lets speak about practicle things ..such how important psyching up sepecially in lifting heavy wts and all thing help to achieve the mixture between concentaration and detemenation in my lifts,, sorry i cant think in my mitochondria and endoplasmic reticulum in that war with wts ,, do u agree with me?
Of course I don't thinks science DURING lifts, but when not training I try to learn as much as possible. I mean, everything we know now and we think off as basics such as protein, not train 4 hours a day etc once used we know thanks to science, but we all accepted it so it's just normal for us and we don't see it as science anymore. In another 20 years, alot of things who we now see as complicated science will be basic knowledge then.

If BB was about your feeling everyone would train 6 hours a day, because everyone would think, working out means becomming bigger, working out 5 times al long, 5 times as big!
 
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornT
I didn't say I don't like high reps. I do them for a week every 2 months, to increase capillary density, strengthening connective tissue, additional sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and increased lactic acid threshold.
Nor did I say the pump is bad, it's just not the only way to grow. Ever tried 5x5? You wont get pumps from it, but you will grow.
It's all cool bra! No need to be defensive or say I didn't say this or that, I actually agreed with you except on what you said about pump but I never said you thought pump was bad and yes I just said I go low reps on my current workout have a read and don't be so tense, it is CHARLES who said it not me looool.
 
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Old 03-06-2006, 04:37 PM   #13
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ok man u r allright, i agree with u that knowledge is too important..but my mentality tends to stick more to practice more than theories(inspite of im a doctor) i like psyching up feeling u do hard thing (anybody wants to be a bb!)..so i ment that we have to give our energy in discussion into what gives results more.(ofcourse training 3 o 4 hours a day is stupid ) ,, in end i respect u because at least u r abb ! and no one can be a bb! thnx
 
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