[StoneMan]

Thanks Mike, and everyone else that posted for your support! Long day at work, but no worries and no excuses. Ate a sandwich, drank some oj, a protein shake with water (thanks Hatch!) and I'm heading to the gym in about 20 mins for my first lower body session. Will post results and diet when I get back.

[projecthatch92]

Sounds good gene. I'll be waiting lol

[StoneMan]

Alright here it is; I'm gonna post the workout first as I have some urgent questions in it. And as this is my first lower body session, I didn't go bonkers, need to be able to work tommorow!

Squats
Warm up; 135 lbs x 12
Set 1; 225 lbs x 8
Set 2; 225 lbs x 8

I squat with a more than shoulder wide stance, toes flared out as I'm duck footed. I tried feet shoulder width apart, but it felt too awkward. Also, I felt the squats more in my glutes, hamstrings and quads to a lesser extent. Advice? I'll be looking at some squat videos on youtube, any suggestions?

Hamstring Curl Machine
Warm up; 90 lbs x 10
Set 1; 120 lbs x 8
Set 2; 120 lbs x 8

Leg Press Machine;
Warm up; 270 lbs x 10
Set 1; 360 lbs x 8
Set 2; 360 lbs x 8

I love this machine. I know I'm capable of much more from past experience and present intuition, but again I'm trying to slowly break my legs in.

Stiff Legged Dead Lifts;
Set 1; 135 lbs x 10
Set 2; 135 lbs x 10

I must have f'ed this up, I felt it more in lower back than anywhere else. Thought SLDL's are hamstring and glute targeters?

Deadlifts;
Set 1; 135 lbs x 10
Set 2; 225 lbs x 8

This I did feel in my quad's, but again, signficant feeling in my lower back. All day yesterday I was practicing dead lift form with an imaginary bar, but that seems to have went out the window.

Seated Leg Curl Machine
Warm up; 95 lbs x 10
Set 1; 120 lbs x 8
Set 2; 120 lbs x 8

Seated Leg Extension Machine
Set 1; 120 lbs x 8 (warm up set turned into a work set after about the 4th rep :o))
Set 2; 120 lbs x8

Calf Raise Machine
Warm up; 195 lbs x 10
Set 1; 205 lbs x 8
Set 2; 205 lbs x 8

Diet-----

Meal 1; Quaker Instant Oatmeal made with water
EAS Protein Shake with 1% milk
8 oz of Simply Orange Pure Orange juice.

Work, boooo!

Meal 2; 2 Quaker Chewy Granola Bars

Meal 3; Ham and Cheddar sandwich with Romain lettuce on Wheat Bread
2 Power flavored Vitamin Water sports drinks.

Meal 4; 2 Tablespoons JIF creamy peanut butter, 1 tablespoon Smuckers Strawberry Jam on wheat bread.
EAS Protein Shake with water.
8 oz. Simply Orange pure orange juice.

Gym, yaaaaaaay!

Meal 5; 3 hard boiled eggs
3 oz. sliced 95% fat free ham
10 Nabisco unsalted saltine (lol) crakcers.
1 serving Yoplait Strawberry Yogurt 99% fat free.
EAS Protein Shake with water.

Meal 6; EAS Protein Shake with 1% milk.

Macronutrient totals;
Protein; 191.1 grams
Carbs; 304.7 grams
Fats; 69.2 grams

Calories burned; 4508
Calories eaten; 2601
Calorie deficit; 1907 (fu.ck)

I completely underestimated how much we bodybuilders and strongmen must eat, y'all must eat like gotda.mn breeding bulls! I'll be looking into your diet logs, any suggestions on how to get my calories and protein? Guess to strangle a bear, you gotta eat like a bear huh?

[projecthatch92]

You gotta get some good protein sources in there bro. Chicken, tuna, lots of eggs, beef, turkey, any of those would work.

I'd say 4 shakes is too much for one day, and I know some guys will say the same. But once you slowly get the jist of what a diet should look like, those protein shakes need to be turned into real food.

I'll post some videos up of proper form and what not when I get home from work. I can't access youtube

[n88tr]

225 is a heavy squat for a first timer. I'd make sure form was proper, at least below parallel if not ATG.

You've been given a lot of good advice. If you choose to take it and follow diet and different exercises, ie the big 3 for a few months you should see some dramatic changes.

It's nice to see another log up and running.

[StoneMan]

Originally Posted by n88tr

225 is a heavy squat for a first timer. I'd make sure form was proper, at least below parallel if not ATG.

You've been given a lot of good advice. If you choose to take it and follow diet and different exercises, ie the big 3 for a few months you should see some dramatic changes.

It's nice to see another log up and running.

I've squatted before, just been a long time. I go down to just above parallel, I can't go AtG with nothing on, much less under load. Is it normal for the heels to be off the ground when squatting, or am I short tendoned as I suspect?

Yep, lotsa great advice and encouragement here in the dungeon, who needs a personal trainer when I got you guys!

[n88tr]

Heels off the ground I'd be really worried about that. It's like deading, you need to keep heels on the ground at all times unless maybe [and guys correct me if I'm wrong] when you initially get the weight off the racks. My calves are crazy strong and it doesn't bother them or anything when I do it like that.

[StoneMan]

If my feet are shoulder width apart, as I go down my heels come off the floor. Not extremely, but enough so that 100% of my weight is on the balls of my feet. With a slightly wider than shoulder width stance, my heels stay planted. Today I'm definitly feeling the soreness in quads, especially as I test out my squat form as I'm writing this. Guess it's just one of my body's quirks?

Well here's my nutrition log for today;

Meal 1;
3 hard boiled eggs, 1 packet of instant oatmeal in water, 1 EAS Protein Shake with water, 8 oz of pure orange juice.

Work, blah.....

Meal 2;
2 Quaker Chewy Granola Bars (I know you hate them Hatch, I promise I will have better whole food/real meal-not snack items after grocery shopping!)

Meal 3;
2 tbsp peanut butter, 1 tbsp jam on wheat bread, 1 EAS Protein Shake made with 1% milk.

Meal 4; 12 oz porterhouse steak, 1 serving of mixed squash, carrots and zucchini, 1/2 serving of mashed potatos with gravy, 1/2 buttermilk biscuit.

Calories burned; 3478
Calories eaten; 2703
Total deficit; 775

Protein total; 201.4 grams
Carbs total; 222.4 grams
Fats total; 116.6 grams

Not the best I've eaten, but still in calorie deficit and got 200 grams of protein. In actuality, I trimmed the fat off the steak but I cant find the right entry on my database, so the fat intake should be lower. But I'll call it the price I pay to have a nice dinner with the girlfriend.

Also, do you guys train before or after work? Want some preferences on this.

[mikeh40+]

a suggestion for you on your squats, if your heels are coming off the ground, try placing a 2x4 board under your heels, i have seen it done in my gym and some guys would even wear work boots for the extra height in the heel area, might help you at least have support in that area

[projecthatch92]

I sometimes just place my heels on some 5 lb plates

[GETTINGSTRONGER]

Work boots for squats work great. I started working legs in boots & found that it actually felt better than tennie shoes.

[StoneMan]

Cool, I'll give all those suggestions a try. Upper body today, and I don't work, woohoo! I'm gonna bring the pain today y'all. Feelin great!....Except my quads are pretty sore. They should be fine for the next lower body session on wednesday. Will post log and diet later tonight, as usual.

[n88tr]

Have you ever given front squats a try? I don't have any front delts so I can't really hold on to the bar lol but you could give them a try, they hit the front quads super hard.

[StoneMan]

Thanks for the reminder, I was just talking about them with a co worker the other day. Yeah, my delts are pretty much non-existent! But I will do my warm up set for the next squat session as front squat and see how that plays out.

[Gideon's_Test]

Originally Posted by StoneMan

Also, do you guys train before or after work? Want some preferences on this.

I spent nearly a year training after work (never have been a morning person, in fact, I've never met a morning I've liked..). I'm married though, and I finally got really tired of getting home at 8:00pm...

What happened is that, on Fridays, I found I was skipping workouts because I wanted to go home...So I started thinking about it and started working out in the morning on Fridays....

After awhile I switched completely to mornings, and believe it or not, I love it! I have more energy throughout the rest of the day, and can head straight home after work. I do have an unfair advantage in that my fitness center is at work!

I have found however, that for a early morning exercise regimen, eating correctly is very important to sustaining intensity.. If I don't eat enough of the the right stuff, I can't keep up the intensity...I didn't notice this to be the case when working out in the evening...

[mikeh40+]

i always have trained in the morning, generally right after my coffee about 1-2 hours after i wake up i`m hitting the weights, cant seem to find the energy and drive to workout late in the day, plus it leaves the rest of the day open to what ever needs to get done,,

[Freak]

Fantastic log you have going here. I will definitely be following your progress. You are getting very good suggestions from everyone. Keep up the good work and thank you for your service.

[n88tr]

Whenever I read about 'when to workout' it nearly always comes down to 'do it when you're most comfortable.' If that means mornings, do mornings, or afternoons or after dinner, when ever. I mostly do mine 6-9 pm. It's another personal preference thing.

[StoneMan]

Yeah I think I'm gonna have to go back to the up at 5am out the door by 5:30 routine. Damn gym was packed like a sardine can tonight. Well, under advisement, I put more freeweight exercises in my session, and boy did that make a difference! Here goes;

Bench Press inside power cage
Warm up; 135 x 12
Set 1; 185 x 10
Set 2; 215 x 5
Set 3; 215 x3

Bent Over Barbell Rows;
Warm up; 135 x 10
Set 1; 155 x 8
Set 2; 155 x 8
Set 3; 155 x 8

Seated Overhead Dumbell Press
Warm up; 50 x 12
Set 1; 55 x 8
Set 2; 55 x 7
Set 3; 55 x 7

Dumbell Rows
Warm up; 85 x 10
Set 1; 85 x 10
Set 2; 85 x 10
Set 3; 85 x 10

Iso Chest Press Hammerstrength
Warm up; 45 x 10
Set 1; 90 x 5
Set 2; nil
Set 3; nil

Seems that after the bench and overhead dumbell press, both my pec's and tri's were done. I struggled to get 1 rep on set 2, so I just called it nil. Needles to say, I was not pleased at this point. My chest needs mucho work.

Iso Lateral Row Hammerstrength
Warm up; 45 x 10
Set 1; 135 x 8
Set 2; 145 x 7
Set 3; 145 x 7

I didn't feel my normal intensity here. I felt weaker than last session. But looking at my log, I did single progress on repetitions. I just didn't progress on the weight.

Pectoral Machine
Warm up; 105 x 12
Set 1; 135 x 10
Set 2; 165 x 5
Set 3; 150 x 6

Jumped too far on the weight, had to rein it back in on the last set. Hell, I'm probably gonna throw this out in favor of flat bench dumbell flys.

Shoulder Shrugs on Calf Raise Machine
Warm up; 195 x 12
Set 1; 240 x 10
Set 2; 270 x 10
Set 3; 300 x 10

I will probably switch this in favor of barbell or dumbell shrugs. This machine has nothing for me now, and my forearms can always use more indirect work.

All in all, a *decent* session, especially considering I switched to half free weights when before I had almost none. Also, I need to remember this is week 3; I'm not gonna become Dorian Yates in 4 short weeks. Patience young grasshopper. Well, I'll be here, waiting for y'alls after action reports! And I will post meals when all meals and calculations are complete.

Nutrition

Breakfast; Instant oatmeal made with water, 1 protein shake with water.

Lunch; 1 cup white rice, 1 cup steamed broccoli, 1 cup teriyaki chicken.

Afternoon; pre- workout shake with water.

Train, followed by post workout shake with water.

Dinner; 4 oz porterhouse steak, 3 hard boiled eggs with yolks, 2 tbsps peanut butter and 1 tbsp jelly on wheat bread.

Late night, 2 serving protein shake with 1% milk.

Protein; 278.6 grams (yesssssssssss!) 45% of total calories
Carbs; 185.5 grams (getting better) 29% of total calories
Fats; 72.3 grams (thats ok, right) 26% of total calories

Calories burned; 3177
Calories eaten; 2531
Total deficit; -646

[StoneMan]

Originally Posted by Freak

Fantastic log you have going here. I will definitely be following your progress. You are getting very good suggestions from everyone. Keep up the good work and thank you for your service.

I really appreciate everyone who follows my log and posts their advice, it's really motivating to have your support. Thank you all, again and again!

[GETTINGSTRONGER]

Hey bro hows the wheels feel today, ummm you got love it. Looks like youve got a better mix of free to machine workouts. I do agree that bb or db shrugs would be better, I personally do both & in my opinion there no substitute for db flies. I noticed on the db rows that you warmup w/ the same weight you workout with(85s thats awsome wt) are you keeping good form, if so i would move up in weight. Man your doing a great job! Keep the motivation & keep fighting through it

[StoneMan]

Originally Posted by GETTINGSTRONGER

Hey bro hows the wheels feel today, ummm you got love it. Looks like youve got a better mix of free to machine workouts. I do agree that bb or db shrugs would be better, I personally do both & in my opinion there no substitute for db flies. I noticed on the db rows that you warmup w/ the same weight you workout with(85s thats awsome wt) are you keeping good form, if so i would move up in weight. Man your doing a great job! Keep the motivation & keep fighting through it

Wheels are feelin pretty good...NOW! They were on fire for the past couple days! Checked out the squat instruction that someone linked on Hatch's log, my stance is actually good, but I'm squatting more with my shoulders rather than my hips/as.s as he shows. I'll be working on that tommorow. What do you suggest here; I feel my shoulder shrugging ability is far greater than my forearms ability to properly hold weight. Should I start low, where my forearms and grip can handle it, then work my way up?

On my bb rows, normally I would have jumped to 90 or 95 for the worksets, but something told me to stay at 85. Last time I did bb rows, I did 3 sets of 90 x 8, but I felt that I cheated the last rep or two in the last 2 sets. Is it normal to extend all the way down in the row to bring the lats and back into it? I've been trying to use strictly biceps....now that I think about it, that's probably wrong huh?

[GETTINGSTRONGER]

This is what i suggest and this is my opinion & i know people wont agree but it works for me. When i do shruggs i have the same trouble, cant hold the weight i need to lift. The best thing i know to do is invest in wrist straps. I like to go very heavy for high reps & its impossible for my grip to hold up, & when the grip starts going so does the form. I personally think that is the answer for that. On bb rows i like the rev grip, i strongly advise to keep good form when doing bb rows. I was once told that bad form doing bb rows is a chiropractors best freind. I try to to extend as far down as i can while arms stay slightly bent, and then try to pull up to my belly while iso back and lats, you will use bicep alittle but if your form is right this should burn mid back & lats upppp.On bb rows i dont use straps, i try to do lighter weight (225)so i can keep very good form lol

[StoneMan]

Agreed. I've seen in more than a few places people would use the underhand grip on bb rows to better involve the lats and back, notably Dorian Yates. I do use straps on the bb rows, deadlifts, etc...I may use them on db rows if my form gets sloppy. Thanks again GS!

[projecthatch92]

for squats keep the weight low until you feel that you have good form. i didn't go over 185 lbs for 3 or 4 weeks until my squat form felt solid.

as far as db rows go, you want to be using your back, that's the whole point of the exercise. now obviously you're biceps are going to be worked indirectly because of the pulling motion. and don't be afraid to cheat sometimes on those last couple of reps. i've found that weeks i specifically go heavy weight to cheat on purpose, and it's added some good thickness to my back

[StoneMan]

Word. After typing my response to GS, I tried to visualize all the muscles involved, and trying to use only bicep on the db row didn't make sense, though it did make me happy to know that I could row the weight with almost all bicep!

What are your guys feelings on ideal total workout time? Any of you guys H.I.T. men and keep it under an hour? Conventional 2 hour guys, or 3+ hour marathon lifters? I ask because though I love the complete fatigue I feel with a simple "upper day/lower day" split, I'm begining to feel that I'm running out of gas by the time my last 2 or 3 exercises. So now I'm looking at more typical splits, maybe that badas.s power/hypertrophy routine in Layne Nortons section. You're still doing that right Hatch?

[GETTINGSTRONGER]

I am most diff what you are calling a H.I.T. man, i try to have my lifting done in 45mins, 1hr at the most. except for chest which i rest between sets & do not super set. I was taught that you workout hard, rest only when loading/ unloading machines. No doubt if your super setting 3-4 workouts you'll get alittle rest walking from area to area. With this kind of workout i dont have to do cardio as often. But dont get me wrong i still do cardio 3 times a week. As im starting to get older i find that this style workout is getting harder for me, maybe not harder as in workout but harder in the amount of sets/ reps i can do in my alotted time at the gym. But you know, im kinda like the 80s music ..........I get better with time lol

[StoneMan]

Wooooord! I used to hate 80's music, even though I was born and raised in that era. But as I'm getting older, I really dig it. But yeah, I really need to cut down my time in the gym, especially if I'm gonna go in the mornings. 1 hour seems like the ideal time.

Ya know, I was up racking my brain last night, trying to develop a good split routine for me, and the thought crossed my mind; "I'm a beginner. I should be focusing on the big traditional compound movements, less on the isolation stuff." You think that's valid?

[n88tr]

I make that mistake too a lot, sometimes I just don't THINK! But yes mass movements the big 3 are what stress the body the most but put on the most mass. You can do a little isolation work at the end of your workout to kill the muscle but I wouldn't start out doing isolation work. Like for example don't start with concentration curls for bis, do barbell curls.

[projecthatch92]

Cosign with that. The most I'll ever be in the gym is 90 minutes, but that's when I'm doing chest, shoulders and traps so I'm going at it the whole time.

I did layne's routine for about 3 months. I got some good strength, but it didn't much for size with me. Then again, everyone's different