[n88tr]

Don't be afraid to slam those calves with high reps. I got good results from mixing up the weight and reps a lot.

I know everyone is different but what put on a little mass on my calves was this,

seated calf raises, no rest between sets, only get up to add plates
x20 1 plate
x100 1 plate
x25 2 plates
3x8 3 plates
2x50 2 plates + 25 lbs
x50 1 plate

Something like that, just kill em dead. Emphasis on dead. If you can't move it with 3 plates, drop to 2 plates and a 25. If you can't move that keep dropping it till you get the reps in, no matter what. I also found the frequency of when I hit them helped a lot. Now that I'm injured I can't do jack but what added size was doing volume like this, esp no rest sets, 3 times a week. And for me, one last tip, lol was I stretched really quick like between the last two sets, helped me not cramp up terrible bad in the next few days.

Good luck with it all buddy.

[aild54]

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

say bro, how did you like the vasocharge? compared to others how do you rate it?

Pump wise, it was... decent. It feels like it has a lot of B vitamins and caffeine like stimulants. If I was having a really good day, it helped me stay extremely focused. Jack3d is still my favorite, most definitely. Vasocharge gives me slight tingling in my hands, but Jack3d does it 2x better. My stomach agrees with both Vasocharge and Jack3d. I actually like it when my pre-workout supps have an extremely harsh taste. Like, so bad that you have to get pumped up just to slam it down. Vasocharge is like that, so that's a plus to me, haha, I dunno if you're like that, or not, though.
So, powder NO wise, my list still goes like this. 1. Jack3d 2. N.O.-Xplode 3. Vasocharge 4. MRI's Black Powder 5. Animal's Shock Therapy

[aild54]

Originally Posted by n88tr

Don't be afraid to slam those calves with high reps. I got good results from mixing up the weight and reps a lot.

I know everyone is different but what put on a little mass on my calves was this,

seated calf raises, no rest between sets, only get up to add plates
x20 1 plate
x100 1 plate
x25 2 plates
3x8 3 plates
2x50 2 plates + 25 lbs
x50 1 plate

Something like that, just kill em dead. Emphasis on dead. If you can't move it with 3 plates, drop to 2 plates and a 25. If you can't move that keep dropping it till you get the reps in, no matter what. I also found the frequency of when I hit them helped a lot. Now that I'm injured I can't do jack but what added size was doing volume like this, esp no rest sets, 3 times a week. And for me, one last tip, lol was I stretched really quick like between the last two sets, helped me not cramp up terrible bad in the next few days.

Good luck with it all buddy.

I actually don't have access to a seated calf machine, so I can't do those. I might start to up their frequency a little. You also have to remember that I'm doing HIIT sprints every other week day (gym class), plus my job requires me to walk at high speeds, and sometimes run. I'll definitely do the high rep thing next week. Thanks for the advice, and for stopping by, big N88tr.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by aild54

Pump wise, it was... decent. It feels like it has a lot of B vitamins and caffeine like stimulants. If I was having a really good day, it helped me stay extremely focused. Jack3d is still my favorite, most definitely. Vasocharge gives me slight tingling in my hands, but Jack3d does it 2x better. My stomach agrees with both Vasocharge and Jack3d. I actually like it when my pre-workout supps have an extremely harsh taste. Like, so bad that you have to get pumped up just to slam it down. Vasocharge is like that, so that's a plus to me, haha, I dunno if you're like that, or not, though.
So, powder NO wise, my list still goes like this. 1. Jack3d 2. N.O.-Xplode 3. Vasocharge 4. MRI's Black Powder 5. Animal's Shock Therapy

i am the opposite , if my pre-workout drinks make me gag, then its more of a chore to take the supplement, muscle tech`s was by far the worst taste yet, second was bsn`s , so far jacked3d is the best tasting, but i seem to build up a tolerance so fast to the effects, that 3 scoops does the job but i dont get near the effects as my first weeks usage ,, thanks for the run down bro..

[rmike]

Im gonna go try jack3d now. You made up my mind. lol

[aild54]

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

i am the opposite , if my pre-workout drinks make me gag, then its more of a chore to take the supplement, muscle tech`s was by far the worst taste yet, second was bsn`s , so far jacked3d is the best tasting, but i seem to build up a tolerance so fast to the effects, that 3 scoops does the job but i dont get near the effects as my first weeks usage ,, thanks for the run down bro..

Haha, I just feel so hardcore when I fill the cup up, stir it, take a deep breath, and slam that bitch down. I get goosebumps every time. You know, Mike, I've noticed that you drink a lot of coffee, plus Jack3d. Have you ever thought about tapering off of the caffeine for a while? I'm a huge advocate of caffeine, don't get me wrong, but there's a limit to everything.

Good to hear, rmike. I loveee the stuff. You might as well get two containers, because you'll be pissed when that first one runs out.

[projecthatch92]

3 scoops with jack3d? hot damn I only take 2 scoops and I feel like baby jesus

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by aild54

Haha, I just feel so hardcore when I fill the cup up, stir it, take a deep breath, and slam that bitch down. I get goosebumps every time. You know, Mike, I've noticed that you drink a lot of coffee, plus Jack3d. Have you ever thought about tapering off of the caffeine for a while? I'm a huge advocate of caffeine, don't get me wrong, but there's a limit to everything.
.

yea actually i just started drinking coffee again after about a 5 year lay off, for some reason i just couldnt stand coffee, then one day i was just tired as a mofo in the morning, and the wife was sitting there drinking her coffee and all happy and awake and crap, so i figured WTF lets try a cup, anyways, yes your probably spot on with the caffeine and the jacked3d tolerance, i was thinking the same thing, but my train of thought was, umm maybe make a stronger batch of coffee, lol... DOH that wont help now will it..... ok, i`ll have to lay off the coffee and see whats what,,, you be so smart dude...

[aild54]

Haha, one scoop is good with me for like two or three weeks, then I up it to two until I'm done with the container.
Mike, just remember not to stop it all entirely. You WILL feel like ****. I would say every week you should cut back on one cup a day. So if you're drinking 4 cups now, next week, it should be 3, then the next, 2, then 1, then none for a month.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by aild54

Haha, one scoop is good with me for like two or three weeks, then I up it to two until I'm done with the container.
Mike, just remember not to stop it all entirely. You WILL feel like ****. I would say every week you should cut back on one cup a day. So if you're drinking 4 cups now, next week, it should be 3, then the next, 2, then 1, then none for a month.

yea i def. agree with cutting it out cold turkey, i dont think i could function without some java! good suggestion bro,

[rmike]

Man I know what you guys mean about needing caffiene. I was taking thosed caffiene pills for a while but quit and now I only do coffee in the morning. That stuff is addicting! I read somewhere that excessive caffiene can raise coryisol levels, has anyone else ever heard that? I will try to find an article to post

[HawaiianPride.]

Caffeine, Stress and Your Health - Is Caffeine Your Friend or Your Foe?

[projecthatch92]

So according to that article, it's best to have caffeine before a workout when on a cut

[HawaiianPride.]

Well most pre workout igniters have caffeine in them but are usually hidden with the chemical name methylxanthine. All I ever got out of using caffeinated products is a short boost then crash after my workout. I was just pointing out the negative side effects of enhanced cortisol levels with this article for mike.

[rmike]

Good post hp. Thats pretty much what I had read except I think it was more biased against caffiene. I think that its beneficial in moderation, but thats me. I still drink coffee every morning and I dont think ill be stopping unless I get some jack3d. I dont want to much caffiene.
Thanks pride, thats good info

[HawaiianPride.]

I still do coffee every morning too man. I just love it, and I only have about 12oz so it's not much at all, just enough to get me going through my first shift, then I come back home and take another nap before my second shift. I don't ALWAYS notice the "crash" effect from pre workout supps, but when I do it's a horrible feeling.

[Iron253]

Coffee is good I always drink it every morming..

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

I still do coffee every morning too man. I just love it, and I only have about 12oz so it's not much at all, just enough to get me going through my first shift, then I come back home and take another nap before my second shift. I don't ALWAYS notice the "crash" effect from pre workout supps, but when I do it's a horrible feeling.

i hate the crash feeling, without a doubt the worst,, just got my phenadrine today, so i`ll be using that for awhile, never get any crashes with phenadrine,

[aild54]

Originally Posted by rmike

Good post hp. Thats pretty much what I had read except I think it was more biased against caffiene. I think that its beneficial in moderation, but thats me. I still drink coffee every morning and I dont think ill be stopping unless I get some jack3d. I dont want to much caffiene.
Thanks pride, thats good info

Moderation is the key word. I've learned that balance is the key to life. Huge amounts of anything isn't good, in most cases.

I once read that caffeine works by making your body release adrenaline. The article also said that adrenaline releases glucose from your liver, and that's why caffeine rushes feel similar to "sugar highs". Doesn't this mean that it would be bad to use pre-workout? Not only that, but wouldn't that also mean that a crash could not occur if you had complex carbs?

And thanks for the rep, Mike.

[rmike]

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

I still do coffee every morning too man. I just love it, and I only have about 12oz so it's not much at all, just enough to get me going through my first shift, then I come back home and take another nap before my second shift. I don't ALWAYS notice the "crash" effect from pre workout supps, but when I do it's a horrible feeling.

I hear that bro, I gotta have my coffee in the morning or im just not right. I always hated the crash feeling I get from caffiene supps tho, it SUCKS!

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

i hate the crash feeling, without a doubt the worst,, just got my phenadrine today, so i`ll be using that for awhile, never get any crashes with phenadrine,

I never tried that before, does it give you the same energy as caffiene? You ever try ginseng?

Originally Posted by aild54

Moderation is the key word. I've learned that balance is the key to life. Huge amounts of anything isn't good, in most cases.

I once read that caffeine works by making your body release adrenaline. The article also said that adrenaline releases glucose from your liver, and that's why caffeine rushes feel similar to "sugar highs". Doesn't this mean that it would be bad to use pre-workout? Not only that, but wouldn't that also mean that a crash could not occur if you had complex carbs?

And thanks for the rep, Mike.

I agree 100% on that moderation thing.
You make some very interesting points. I notice that I dont always feel a crash but never thought to look at my diet that day for a reason. I will have to remember that. I dont always consume the same amount of complex carbs every day. Very interesting

[aild54]

Originally Posted by rmike

I agree 100% on that moderation thing.
You make some very interesting points. I notice that I dont always feel a crash but never thought to look at my diet that day for a reason. I will have to remember that. I dont always consume the same amount of complex carbs every day. Very interesting

Why do you not consume the same amount of carbs every day?

[Teran]

Originally Posted by aild54

Moderation is the key word. I've learned that balance is the key to life. Huge amounts of anything isn't good, in most cases.

I once read that caffeine works by making your body release adrenaline. The article also said that adrenaline releases glucose from your liver, and that's why caffeine rushes feel similar to "sugar highs". Doesn't this mean that it would be bad to use pre-workout? Not only that, but wouldn't that also mean that a crash could not occur if you had complex carbs?

And thanks for the rep, Mike.

Yes, caffeine usually makes your body release adrenaline, which in turn triggers your body to empty some of, if not all of the liver stores of glycogen, which is used to regulate your body's blood glucose level. However with the adrenal response component your body goes into the "fight/flight" mode and isn't worried about regulating blood glucose, just getting all it can available to "fight/flight". Hence why you can "crash" after an adrenal response.

A similar effect can occur if you become glycogen depleted during an intense workout, without caffeine involvement. Your body will get glucose from wherever it's needed, including the liver stores, to keep the brain going, and not be able to regulate the blood glucose levels efficiently, if at all "crashing" again.

Adding in the complex carbs is fine to help offset those feelings, however if your body is in "fight/flight" it wont be worried about digesting anything, and simple sugars would be preferred. However some of the newer complex carbs (I believe glycomaize was one) are designed to pass thru the GI system far quicker and thus can act as simple sugars, while retaining the complex carb status.

Taking it pre-workout or not is all a personal preference and seems to be beneficial for some, if you are prepared for what it is going to do to you.

[rmike]

Originally Posted by aild54

Why do you not consume the same amount of carbs every day?

Im pretty close to the same but my diet isnt as strict as it should be. I dont over do it with anything but some days im just trying to eat what ever I can when im at work and then days like today, when im off, I really watch everything I eat. I know its not the best way to diet but Im not going to do a show anytime soon. I really make sure I get enough protien though. And I drink water like crazy. If im on a cycle I watch my carbs alot closer to combat lethargy but I Cant eat in the kennel at work, people get coccidia and giardia all the time doing that and im not trying to lose 20lbs from diarrhea. lol

[aild54]

Originally Posted by Teran

Why I'm the ****...

Dude, awesomeee explanation. Thank you for laying that out for me. But wouldn't the amount of adrenaline released greatly depend on the amount of caffeine taken? Wouldn't say... 100mg create a relatively minor physiological response, so the body wouldn't really go into full blown "fight or flight". Would this mean that a crash wouldn't really occur later?

And Mike, I getcha. Haha, I'm the same way sometimes. Sometimes it's just like "ah, **** it, I'm close enough."

[Teran]

Originally Posted by aild54

Dude, awesomeee explanation. Thank you for laying that out for me. But wouldn't the amount of adrenaline released greatly depend on the amount of caffeine taken? Wouldn't say... 100mg create a relatively minor physiological response, so the body wouldn't really go into full blown "fight or flight". Would this mean that a crash wouldn't really occur later?

And Mike, I getcha. Haha, I'm the same way sometimes. Sometimes it's just like "ah, **** it, I'm close enough."

EHH? I don't remember posting that "Originally Posted by Teran Why I'm the ****..." ???????

Any response to different dosages depend on a multitude of factors. Age, weight, stomach contents, metabolism, genetics, tolerance etc. Someone older *cough, geezer, mike, cough* who is already consuming some daily will have a far different reaction to it that someone much younger who doesn't take in any. Different dosages of caffeine just affect people differently. While there may be a standard dose that affects most people a certain way, I have no idea what it is.

While you may not "completely" go into the fight/flight response, any adrenal response would contribute to the body wanting to provide ready glucose for that adrenal inducing event/trigger. Tough to quantify how much adrenaline it takes to make your liver begin to dump its stores though.

[rmike]

Wow. Thats an awesome post bro^^ reps for both of them

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by Teran

EHH? I don't remember posting that "Originally Posted by Teran Why I'm the ****..." ???????

Any response to different dosages depend on a multitude of factors. Age, weight, stomach contents, metabolism, genetics, tolerance etc. Someone older *cough, geezer, mike, cough* who is already consuming some daily will have a far different reaction to it that someone much younger who doesn't take in any. Different dosages of caffeine just affect people differently. While there may be a standard dose that affects most people a certain way, I have no idea what it is.

While you may not "completely" go into the fight/flight response, any adrenal response would contribute to the body wanting to provide ready glucose for that adrenal inducing event/trigger. Tough to quantify how much adrenaline it takes to make your liver begin to dump its stores though.

and just what the hell are you trying to say? hmmm junior? cant hear you speak up sonny,, lol.. get that cough taken care of dude,, thanks for the laugh.. but your correct in the statement, the older one gets, damn it there is that word again.. the more ones tolerance level becomes, i believe the tolerance issue has something to do with amount of receptors you have? i`m not sure on that so dont quote me, or its something in the brain that one is more sensitive to stimulants, oh hell the more i type the more i see that i have no fricking idea either, i`ll just end now.

[aild54]

Originally Posted by Teran

EHH? I don't remember posting that "Originally Posted by Teran Why I'm the ****..." ???????

Any response to different dosages depend on a multitude of factors. Age, weight, stomach contents, metabolism, genetics, tolerance etc. Someone older *cough, geezer, mike, cough* who is already consuming some daily will have a far different reaction to it that someone much younger who doesn't take in any. Different dosages of caffeine just affect people differently. While there may be a standard dose that affects most people a certain way, I have no idea what it is.

While you may not "completely" go into the fight/flight response, any adrenal response would contribute to the body wanting to provide ready glucose for that adrenal inducing event/trigger. Tough to quantify how much adrenaline it takes to make your liver begin to dump its stores though.

Haha, I changed it. It's a compliment, man.

That totally makes sense. Reps headed your way the next time I can rep you again. I don't forget anything, so don't worry about it.

And, I've heard of things like Benadryl helping to make your receptors more sensitive again. Do you know anything about that? It seems like it would benefit Mike a lot, so while he wasn't getting any caffeine, he could take Benadryl and further his sensitivity.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by aild54

Haha, I changed it. It's a compliment, man.

That totally makes sense. Reps headed your way the next time I can rep you again. I don't forget anything, so don't worry about it.

And, I've heard of things like Benadryl helping to make your receptors more sensitive again. Do you know anything about that? It seems like it would benefit Mike a lot, so while he wasn't getting any caffeine, he could take Benadryl and further his sensitivity.

benadryl is good for cleaning the receptors yes, but the down side is it makes you sleeeeepy!! i do use it at night off and on, but here again you can build up a tolerance as well, for me i have a high tolerance for almost everything, must be i have like a ton of extra brain cells or something,

[aild54]

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

benadryl is good for cleaning the receptors yes, but the down side is it makes you sleeeeepy!! i do use it at night off and on, but here again you can build up a tolerance as well, for me i have a high tolerance for almost everything, must be i have like a ton of extra brain cells or something,

Or because you're so brolic.