[Avril18]

move it if its in the wrong place since bcca s are a supp i decided to post it here

A randomized, double-blind study was performed to evaluate the efficacy of consuming a supplement containing branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) during an eight-week resistance-training program.
Methods: Thirty-six strength-trained males with a minimum of two years resistance-training experience (25.5 yrs, 177.7 cm, 85.2 kg and 9.3% body fat) were randomly assigned to receive either 14 grams of BCAAs (n = 12), 28 grams of whey protein (n = 12), or 28 grams of carbohydrates from a sports drink (n = 12) while performing an eight-week resistance-training program. Participants followed a periodized, whole-body training program that involved training all major muscle groups once per week using a four-day training split. Subjects body weight, body composition, and 10-rep max on the bench press and squat were determined before and after the eight-week training program. Subjects followed a standardized diet while following the program.

Results:All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

Conclusion: Ingestion of a supplement containing BCAAs while following an 8-week resistance training program resulted in a greater decrease in percent body fat, an increase in lean mass, and 10-RM strength gains on the bench press and squat vs. ingestion of a whey supplement or a sports drink. In addition, the ingestion of a whey protein supplement resulted in greater lean mass gains than ingestion of a sports drink. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2009, 6(Suppl 1):P1

[T.O]

Great find bro.

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by Avril18

move it if its in the wrong place since bcca s are a supp i decided to post it here

A randomized, double-blind study was performed to evaluate the efficacy of consuming a supplement containing branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) during an eight-week resistance-training program.
Methods: Thirty-six strength-trained males with a minimum of two years resistance-training experience (25.5 yrs, 177.7 cm, 85.2 kg and 9.3% body fat) were randomly assigned to receive either 14 grams of BCAAs (n = 12), 28 grams of whey protein (n = 12), or 28 grams of carbohydrates from a sports drink (n = 12) while performing an eight-week resistance-training program. Participants followed a periodized, whole-body training program that involved training all major muscle groups once per week using a four-day training split. Subjects body weight, body composition, and 10-rep max on the bench press and squat were determined before and after the eight-week training program. Subjects followed a standardized diet while following the program.

Results:All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

Conclusion: Ingestion of a supplement containing BCAAs while following an 8-week resistance training program resulted in a greater decrease in percent body fat, an increase in lean mass, and 10-RM strength gains on the bench press and squat vs. ingestion of a whey supplement or a sports drink. In addition, the ingestion of a whey protein supplement resulted in greater lean mass gains than ingestion of a sports drink. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2009, 6(Suppl 1):P1

very nice post.

[Dodson20]

any suggestions on the best bcaa supplement brand to take?

[mitbar]

Check out BPS anabolic 411, it has two times the leucine for a more anabolic response. Orbitnutrition.com has it in bundles or just stand alone....personally i have tried ones like scivation and chained out and found bps to have the best recovery aspect.

[berserkerr]

great post bro

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by berserkerr

great post bro and you can try ************

cant post up an non sponsore site bro.

[berserkerr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkerr View Post
great post bro and you can try ***** BCAA
cant post up an non sponsore site bro.

my bad, i didnt know

[Mr Incredible]

Interesting, I wonder why tye difference to whey, was it isolate or a crappy whey I wonder

[GRAVESY079]

Originally Posted by mitbar

Check out BPS anabolic 411, it has two times the leucine for a more anabolic response. Orbitnutrition.com has it in bundles or just stand alone....personally i have tried ones like scivation and chained out and found bps to have the best recovery aspect.

How is the taste? watermelon, never the unflavor(lol)
I dont have a BCAA right now, just ran out.
As long as it mixes ok and the taste is bearable.
May be making a purchase some time soon.

[T.O]

Taste is good. I would strongly compare the tatse to Propel if you have ever used it. Bad taste of BCAA is gone with a hint of Watermelon.

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by GRAVESY079

How is the taste? watermelon, never the unflavor(lol)
I dont have a BCAA right now, just ran out.
As long as it mixes ok and the taste is bearable.
May be making a purchase some time soon.

very good, not to potent. The flavor is perfect and it disolves so you dont have clumps or that extra foam like some others leave.

[GRAVESY079]

Originally Posted by mitbar

very good, not to potent. The flavor is perfect and it disolves so you dont have clumps or that extra foam like some others leave.

Good to hear.
I had been using capsules for a while, got scivation twice quite awhile ago. and I have made the mistake before with unflavored, and nothing could help it.

Originally Posted by T.O

Taste is good. I would strongly compare the tatse to Propel if you have ever used it. Bad taste of BCAA is gone with a hint of Watermelon.

As in Gatorade Propel, the "Fitness Water"?
If so it sounds good. Wonder if they will come out with other flavors.


If/When I pull the trigger it will be my first from Orbit.

[Dodson20]

thanks for the info!

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by GRAVESY079

Good to hear.
I had been using capsules for a while, got scivation twice quite awhile ago. and I have made the mistake before with unflavored, and nothing could help it.



As in Gatorade Propel, the "Fitness Water"?
If so it sounds good. Wonder if they will come out with other flavors.


If/When I pull the trigger it will be my first from Orbit.

not sure about other flavors but you def wont be unhappy with the purchase...especially with the bulk discounts they have on it.

[allstar]

I would bet they eventually come out with more flavors

[T.O]

Originally Posted by GRAVESY079

Good to hear.
I had been using capsules for a while, got scivation twice quite awhile ago. and I have made the mistake before with unflavored, and nothing could help it.



As in Gatorade Propel, the "Fitness Water"?
If so it sounds good. Wonder if they will come out with other flavors.


If/When I pull the trigger it will be my first from Orbit.

Thanks for the love bro. Yeah from what I hear they are coming out with more flavors. Im not sure which ones. Yeah it taste like the Gatorade Propel.

[csaba73]

Originally Posted by Avril18

A randomized, double-blind study was performed to evaluate the efficacy of consuming a supplement containing branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) during an eight-week resistance-training program.
Methods: Thirty-six strength-trained males with a minimum of two years resistance-training experience (25.5 yrs, 177.7 cm, 85.2 kg and 9.3% body fat) were randomly assigned to receive either 14 grams of BCAAs (n = 12), 28 grams of whey protein (n = 12), or 28 grams of carbohydrates from a sports drink (n = 12) while performing an eight-week resistance-training program. Participants followed a periodized, whole-body training program that involved training all major muscle groups once per week using a four-day training split. Subjects body weight, body composition, and 10-rep max on the bench press and squat were determined before and after the eight-week training program. Subjects followed a standardized diet while following the program.

Results:All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

Conclusion: Ingestion of a supplement containing BCAAs while following an 8-week resistance training program resulted in a greater decrease in percent body fat, an increase in lean mass, and 10-RM strength gains on the bench press and squat vs. ingestion of a whey supplement or a sports drink. In addition, the ingestion of a whey protein supplement resulted in greater lean mass gains than ingestion of a sports drink. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2009, 6(Suppl 1):P1

Avril,

Indeed a great find and in confirmed - this article has the potential to revolutionarise the whole supplement industry - so surely there will be a lot of discussion on the research method in the academic community. And undoubtedly there will be counter-research.

As you are aware many sports practicioners have stopped using BCAA as Whey contains 5g of BCAA per serving and the supplementation timing is largely the same (PWO).

Therefore would you please also provide us with information on the research method, in particular:
- what whey and what bcaa was taken
- quantity and food timing

Moreover what do the researchers recommend in the suggested future research section, and what research limitations did they come up with.

Last question, is this journal peer-reviewed? (this means is it printed on toilet paper, or a really glossy pages with many illustrations and even advertising?)

(sorry I have an MBA and MSc so before accepting academic research I need to understand better - the supplement industry is already doing a great job at taking scientific research out of its context)

[csaba73]

Ok guys,

I did some research - read on to discover why you should never trust scientific research without checking it.

The article which Avril posted you can download from the website of the Journal of International Society of Sports Nutrition.

Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Full text | Consuming a supplement containing branched-chain amino acids during a resistance-training program increases lean mass, muscle strength and fat loss

The article is just an abstract and it is not in academic format (which would be 5-10 pages with at least one page of references at the back and a lot of limitation on the research and a very good description of the research method). Moreover there is no way to get hold of the full research. So by definition this is not peer-reviewed (the gold standard of academic research).

The other little hint that this research is suspicious is at the bottom where it reads:

The authors would like to thank Scivation, Inc., Graham, NC, for funding this research.


Now if you go to the Scivation website, you will find that they are very proud of this research and that the key author of the article Jim Stoppani is actually providing an exclusive interview to Scivation - which puts as cast of doubt on his impartiality as an academic researcher.

About Jim Stoppani, PhD

Scivation - Performance Nutrition For Athletes

Moreover Scivation Xtend as they call it is a combination of BCAA 2 : 1 : 1 with glutamine, CITRULLINE MALATE and Vitamine B6. So the research is misleading in that the supplementation was not with regular BCAA but with a custom nutrition (which of course is owned by Scivion and we will never know what the components are).

Of course in the research, we do not know what dose was given and when. We do not even know what Whey protein was provided.

The only thing this research might prove, if carried out with academic ethics is that augmenting BCAA with B6 and CM might increment its benefits, but that was not researched. The research was clearly biased towards selling more Scivation Xtend.

I hope you are as appaled as I am by this fake research - this is why the nutrition industry is still in its infancy. They just buy research and researchers to write what ever is required to push their product.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by csaba73

Ok guys,

I did some research - read on to discover why you should never trust scientific research without checking it.

The article which Avril posted you can download from the website of the Journal of International Society of Sports Nutrition.

Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Full text | Consuming a supplement containing branched-chain amino acids during a resistance-training program increases lean mass, muscle strength and fat loss

The article is just an abstract and it is not in academic format (which would be 5-10 pages with at least one page of references at the back and a lot of limitation on the research and a very good description of the research method). Moreover there is no way to get hold of the full research. So by definition this is not peer-reviewed (the gold standard of academic research).

The other little hint that this research is suspicious is at the bottom where it reads:

The authors would like to thank Scivation, Inc., Graham, NC, for funding this research.


Now if you go to the Scivation website, you will find that they are very proud of this research and that the key author of the article Jim Stoppani is actually providing an exclusive interview to Scivation - which puts as cast of doubt on his impartiality as an academic researcher.

About Jim Stoppani, PhD

Scivation - Performance Nutrition For Athletes

Moreover Scivation Xtend as they call it is a combination of BCAA 2 : 1 : 1 with glutamine, CITRULLINE MALATE and Vitamine B6. So the research is misleading in that the supplementation was not with regular BCAA but with a custom nutrition (which of course is owned by Scivion and we will never know what the components are).

Of course in the research, we do not know what dose was given and when. We do not even know what Whey protein was provided.

The only thing this research might prove, if carried out with academic ethics is that augmenting BCAA with B6 and CM might increment its benefits, but that was not researched. The research was clearly biased towards selling more Scivation Xtend.

I hope you are as appaled as I am by this fake research - this is why the nutrition industry is still in its infancy. They just buy research and researchers to write what ever is required to push their product.

regardless if the orginal research post of this thread was biased or not, BCAA`a have a proven track record, do a search on the benefits of supplementing with them and you see much of the same positive feedback, bottom line is the combination of Leucine/Valine/Isoleucine works,

i would also suggest BPS Anabolic extreme which has a higher ration at a
4-1-1 blend along with vitamins C and B6 to enhance the absorption

[csaba73]

Mike,

BCAA is beneficial - we all know this.

What concerns me is these fake research results which are then posted and held in esteem like the bible.

1/ the guy who did academic the research probably works for Scivation (and his email address is at Weider Research)
2/ 30g Whey contains about 5g of BCAA - so taking 14g BCAA compared to 28g Whey is biased
3/ the test was not carried out with 'clean' BCAA but with a specific BCAA that was augmented with other compounds - in fact on the Scivation web site they herald this research as a prove that their product is superior

The research was clearly biased towards being published as marketing collateral / publicity. If not:

1/ the research should have been published in full
2/ the quantities should have been equal
3/ a fourth test group should have been added to test effect of BCAA AND Whey
4/ BCAA and Whey tested should have been bulk

If under above conditions research was carried out then we, practicioners would benefit from this as it would help us fine-tune our supplementation schedules.

With this research you cannot do anything apart from buying Scivation Xtend.

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by csaba73

Mike,

BCAA is beneficial - we all know this.

What concerns me is these fake research results which are then posted and held in esteem like the bible.

1/ the guy who did academic the research probably works for Scivation (and his email address is at Weider Research)
2/ 30g Whey contains about 5g of BCAA - so taking 14g BCAA compared to 28g Whey is biased
3/ the test was not carried out with 'clean' BCAA but with a specific BCAA that was augmented with other compounds - in fact on the Scivation web site they herald this research as a prove that their product is superior

The research was clearly biased towards being published as marketing collateral / publicity. If not:

1/ the research should have been published in full
2/ the quantities should have been equal
3/ a fourth test group should have been added to test effect of BCAA AND Whey
4/ BCAA and Whey tested should have been bulk

If under above conditions research was carried out then we, practicioners would benefit from this as it would help us fine-tune our supplementation schedules.

With this research you cannot do anything apart from buying Scivation Xtend.

just out of curiosity bro, what do you do for a living? you reallys seem to know your stuff and understand all this research. no offense just wondering as most your post are very thought out and insightful like these. :)

[csaba73]

Mitbar,

Thanks for asking, I do not have a degree in sports medicine or nutrition, but I do hold two masters degrees and when you prepare for the master's thesis which takes about 1 year each, you learn a lot about being critical about research.

In general, what you do is you carry out a literature research. In which you focus on peer-reviewed journals (this means really boring articles, but very well carried out), you identify who are the key authors in the field. Most importantly during this research you focus on the literature research which other researchers before you have carried out and build on this.

This is the reason ALL scientific research starts with a one-page literature section, which is referenced. This means, you can look up the actual reference and check that the interpretation is correct (and this is what the peers do before your submission is accepted into any scientific paper).

What I did with this abstract is just this - it is incomplete to be considered scientific. For the record, I filed a complaint with the Journal on above reasons. Let's what comes back.

However, if anyone finds good research happy to read it.

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by csaba73

Mitbar,

Thanks for asking, I do not have a degree in sports medicine or nutrition, but I do hold two masters degrees and when you prepare for the master's thesis which takes about 1 year each, you learn a lot about being critical about research.

In general, what you do is you carry out a literature research. In which you focus on peer-reviewed journals (this means really boring articles, but very well carried out), you identify who are the key authors in the field. Most importantly during this research you focus on the literature research which other researchers before you have carried out and build on this.

This is the reason ALL scientific research starts with a one-page literature section, which is referenced. This means, you can look up the actual reference and check that the interpretation is correct (and this is what the peers do before your submission is accepted into any scientific paper).

What I did with this abstract is just this - it is incomplete to be considered scientific. For the record, I filed a complaint with the Journal on above reasons. Let's what comes back.

However, if anyone finds good research happy to read it.

Thats cool, your very educated. Should be interesting to see what comes back after your complaint, keep us updated.

[FitnessModel45]

I know this may be a very newbie question but why even bother with whey if BCAAs are more efficient at what they do?

Currently I don't use BCAAs at all because I always figured that ON 100% Whey had a sufficient amount of BCAAs in each scoop of whey already..

[mitbar]

whey is good for getting that instant protein after a workout to feed your muscles.

[FitnessModel45]

Don't BCAAs do the same thing?

[mitbar]

bcaa's dont provide protein the provide the aminos yes but not acutal food like that. if that makes sense lol. basically after workout you want to feed your muscles quickly with a fast acting protein...most have bcaas in them but not a lot...extra bcaa supplementation gives your muscles the nutrients needed to grow and recover faster.

[allstar]

Once digested protein breaks down into some BCAAs, ones that cannot be made by the body. It just happens that whey protein is the form that yields the most BCAAs when broken down.

[FitnessModel45]

So if essentially if you're taking a protein powder with a good serving of BCAAs such as ON 100% Whey then you don't need to take extra BCAAs?