[El Pelon]

Hey guys i was always curious about which one of these is better to burn fat or simply a better supplement

Lipo 6 has won best fat burning supplement of the year like for 3 years straight but they say Lipo 6X is better in GNC

but i dont really believe those guys so thats why i decided to ask you all professionals

[stalion]

im taking lipo 6 x right now works great good energy levels never tried lipo 6

[BKNYC]

Just diet right eat clean to loose the weight, i have tried both Lipo 6 and 6X, just upped my blood pressure and making me have the runs

[T.O]

Its almost the same thing. Increased dosage per serving was one of the main changes i believe.

[El Pelon]

so don't matter which one?

and ive been dieting clean already for almost a year

[HEINEKENBEERBOY]

Wutup man!

Well back when I was taking supplements I learned one of two things. One was that those so called supplements DONT work. Second I have learned that if you have alot will power and your routine is just right you'll get there.

See all that diet pills are is mostly caffine and b-vitamins. Those so called propiertary ingredients don't do sh!t. They mess with your heart rythym and make you feel all wierd. Word of advice save your money and work harder.



GET HUGE, STAY HUGE

[T.O]

wow ^^ that was a load of crap. Not even an opinon. Sorry just calling it as it is

[HEINEKENBEERBOY]

Well take it how it is bro. But I see you sponsering your product all the time, trust me/ you won't be taking me for my money.

[Chimera]

Haha, supplements do work. Ofcourse diet and training will always give you better results than supplements, but if you have your diet in check as well as training then supplements really do help. Thermogenics really do help when you are trying your hardest to get down to that 3% bodyfat for a show and your diet and training are already in tip-top shape.

[T.O]

Yeah I have earned my respect here bro so its all good say what you want. welcome to the forum :)

[T.O]

Originally Posted by Chimera

Haha, supplements do work. Ofcourse diet and training will always give you better results than supplements, but if you have your diet in check as well as training then supplements really do help. Thermogenics really do help when you are trying your hardest to get down to that 3% bodyfat for a show and your diet and training are already in tip-top shape.

well said. Problem is that you have people with 30 percent body fate trying to take a fat burner with not adjusting there diet using supplements like lipo 6 and then reporting supplements suck because they don't look like the guy on the cover of the box.

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by T.O

well said. Problem is that you have people with 30 percent body fate trying to take a fat burner with not adjusting there diet using supplements like lipo 6 and then reporting supplements suck because they don't look like the guy on the cover of the box.

Also, when people look at me sometimes they ask me if I am taking anything (could be a steroid question, or as simple as whey protein and creatine); when really they should ask for diet advice and training advice. When I see a picture of an IFBB pro on a product (say Muscletech), the first thing that comes to my mind is how many years (most likely decades) that he has been training and not missing a meal or workout, not what supplements he is taking.

[T.O]

Hahaha very true. Or like me going up and asking a pro mma fighter what xyence supplement he uses so I can knock people out to hahaha

[Kevsworld]

The only fat burner I believe in is the ECA stack. Most of the other stuff out there is just a worthless mixture of caffeine and diuretics.

[T.O]

Check out the logs bro for phenadrine. Mike40's log is one of the best examples. Thats with proper diet and workout. Im not saying all the products are equal and work, but if your educated and do your research you will know which compounds do what and how. Funny I ve been in this game for a while now and even back in the day when products like hydroxycut and ripped fuel contained ephedrine before the ban you still had people claiming fat burners dont worl. Ephedrine or no ephdrine aint gonna work if you dont make any changes to your diet.

[Kevsworld]

Agreed, TO. Actually, I think much of the ECA stack's effectiveness comes from its appetite suppressant properties. Technically, anything which can blunt hunger helps as a "fat burner."

[GeorgeT]

Originally Posted by Kevsworld

Agreed, TO. Actually, I think much of the ECA stack's effectiveness comes from its appetite suppressant properties. Technically, anything which can blunt hunger helps as a "fat burner."

ECA has more benefits then you think, it's anti-catabolic. But as T.O. mentioned phenadrine is a great fat burner, it has synepherine which is the safer option to ephedrine, they work similairly. One thing i'd like to note about phenadrine though is im stronger on phenadrine + superpump then EC + Superpump (yes i like to try crazy **** :) ) but on the topic of lipo 6/x, i had pretty good success with lipo 6x stuff works and gave me pretty good energy and supressed my appetite pretty well, i liked that it had CLA in it, i'd buy it if i had money to spare but for now since im a little tight ill stick to EC.

[islander]

How is it anti catabolic?^

exactly right kev. Ive read a few places 75% of a eca's stack effectiveness is from appetite suppression. I was really surprised by this but totally believe it. Talking about being catabolic. I geuss as long as your making sure to get the necessary cals in youd be fine but I know when on eca you tend to skip meals and shakes. I would say for a person who has there diet in check a eca stack is waste of time for the 25% loss it would get you over the effects it will have you your cns and body.

[T.O]

Sorry Islander no offense you know your cool in the Orbit book but Anyone who has taken the ECA stack or even the EC stack knows from experience that its pretty hardcore. I just like the more feel good feeling with phenadrine than the cracked up feeling of ECA or EC stack

[GeorgeT]

In Response to Islander,

In order to investigate the physiological role of catecholamines in the control of protein breakdown in skeletal muscles, researches treated animals with guanethidine for a few days. Guanethidine has been shown to produce a selective blockade of norepinephrine release from peripheral nerves. Guanethidine treatment induces a drastic 90% reduction in norepinephrine content of soleus (type 1 fibers) and a 40-80percent reduction in plasma levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine. After two days of guanethidine treatment, there was a a 20 percent increase in the rate of protein breakdown in type 1 fibers. Becuase this early rise in the protein breakdown occurred with a concomitant change in the plasma levels of other hormones, it was interpreted to be a direct consequence of the depletion of muscle norepinephrine and/or of the reduction in plasma catecholamine concentration induced by guanethidine treatment. Also, the acute increase in muscle tissue breakdown after catecholamine blockade suggested an inhibitory effect on muscle tissue breakdown by catecholamines.

(still looking for the link to this one, copy and pasted it onto notepad and saved it)


to make the long story short, ephedrine raises the levels of catecholamines which have anti-catabolic effects^

One of the reasons ephedrine is such a powerful agent is that it operates through a variety of mechanisms, including increasing levels of norepinephrine, epinephrine, and dopamine, and stimulating both alpha and beta adrenoreceptors. Appetite suppression - Ephedrine (through facilitating the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline) stimulates the alpha(1)-adrenoreceptor subtype, which is known to induce hypophagia (appetite suppression) (9, 10). It is estimated that appetite supression accounts for 75-80% of the weight loss attributed to ephedrine (2, 4).

Ephedrine Science - Supplement Review


plus first hand i've experienced it, Tom Prince also noted he noticed no muscle loss while he was on EC.

-ill look for some more studies.

[HEINEKENBEERBOY]

Hey T.O.,

Well my last messege was short because it was off cell phone. But back to the supplement talk...

It's true that SOME supplements do work, I'll give you that! But keep in mind the KEY WORD "Supplement". It only supplements what you are already doing and if you aren't doing the right thing in your routine then that so called Supplement isn't going to do **** for you. I don't take to many supplements other than Protien, Creatine and some Multi-Vitamins. The rest of my nutrition comes from Natural sources.

I'm 240 pounds and I know I got about 25lbs of fat on me but the rest is solid. Been lifting for about 3 years now and I can tell you they've been a tuff 3 years coming until now...


As far as the Phenedrine. It's the same as Ephedrine just a synthetic form of it with a similar name...

[T.O]

^^ Not really but Ill leave it alone.

Yeah your message was short because what you said above was supplements dont work. Now I know you mean that soem or most dont work. If your diet is straight and your work outs are straight those are not supplements thats what is required. Anything extra to aid in meeting nutritioal requrements is a supplement hence the protein powder your are using.

[Kevsworld]

Well, I do think EC is anti-catabolic. But most of its effectiveness comes from being an appetite suppressant.

The ECA stack: Ephedrine Caffeine Aspirin for Fat Burning

[T.O]

If thats true than why would you waste your money on a ECA stack. Just take Caffeine. 2-300 mg will shut your hunger down right away.Just saved you 15-20 dollars right there.

Like I said if you have really used a ECA stack before you know how powerful it is. I dont even sell it so I cant be accused of backing it up but hitting a 3k calorie diet with a ECA stack back in the day had a huge effect in both water and weight loss. The problem is somethime you lose to fast which is not good

[GeorgeT]

Originally Posted by Kevsworld

Well, I do think EC is anti-catabolic. But most of its effectiveness comes from being an appetite suppressant.

The ECA stack: Ephedrine Caffeine Aspirin for Fat Burning

don't see why you wouldn't do you also beleive that clen and albuterol aren't anti-catabolic either?

[Kevsworld]

George T,
Never used clen or albuterol so I can't comment.

TO,
In my experience, the EC stack has a much stronger appetite suppressant effect than caffeine alone (yes, I have used it several times). I do believe the EC stack has anti-catabolic properties.

[T.O]

Originally Posted by Kevsworld

George T,
Never used clen or albuterol so I can't comment.

TO,
In my experience, the EC stack has a much stronger appetite suppressant effect than caffeine alone (yes, I have used it several times). I do believe the EC stack has anti-catabolic properties.

Anti-Catabolic meaning anti muscle waisting or breaking down. How would that have any effect on appetite suppresion?

[Kevsworld]

I'm saying I believe the EC stack does both--it suppresses appetite and helps prevent muscle wasting.

[GeorgeT]

Originally Posted by Kevsworld

I'm saying I believe the EC stack does both--it suppresses appetite and helps prevent muscle wasting.

oh im sorry i mis read your post, thought you said you didnt think EC was anti-catabolic

[Kevsworld]

No prob.