[A-Ron21]

Hi everyone. I am sick of coming onto the supplement section and reading about 18 year old kids who haven't gained 20lbs in one month and think that they need to buy a test booster. In the following paragraphs I am going to point out why people under 25 do not need testosterone boosters, and why it is stupid to mess with your hormones if you don't know what you are doing.

I think this thread should be stickied so that it will prevent those kind of threads from popping up as well as helping people understand why they shouldn't do what they are intending on doing.

Also I am going to make this as concise as possible because I don't want to spend a lot of time on it, I want it to be a quick and informative read.

The effect of diet and exercise on testosterone production

Having a proper diet and exercise routine is the best way to maintain healthy testosterone levels. If you do not have your diet, training, and rest tuned in, then your gains, and eventually your test levels, will suffer.
Your body needs Protein, carbohydrates, fat, vitamins, and minerals to be able to function properly. Specifically, if you want to gain weight, you need to be taking in more calories each day than you burn.
Focus: A testosterone booster should never be a substitute for a poor diet.
If you are having trouble gaining weight, then the first thing you need to do is examine your diet. Avoid alcohol. If you want to learn more, go to the nutrition section of this forum.

The next part is your training and recovery. Your body releases testosterone, growth hormone, and other anabolic hormones when you exercise. The best way to keep a high testosterone level is to train hard and regularly. Going to the gym and benching every other day isn't going to cut it. Train your legs. The biggest muscles will release the most testosterone.
Also, do cardio. Men with lower bodyfat have higher test levels because fat cells convert testosterone to estrogen.

Recovery: Training balls to the wall every day is not good for your body. You break it down in the gym, and you build it back up when you rest. You need a good 8 hours of sleep or more each night to really recover from tough workouts. Your pituitary and testes release the most GH and Testosterone during sleep. So get your rest.

Why you shouldn't mess with your hormones

If you have to ask about a test booster, you shouldn't be messing with your hormones. Period. Your body's hormonal cascade is very delicate: changing one part changes everything else. Hormone fluctuations can produce very serious side effects and it is not just all kittens and rainbows like the advertisements say. Testosterone production is at its highest in males around age 17 and 18. Your body is literally a test factory.

This is in fact a very BAD time to mess with your hormones. Why? Because your body's organ systems and tissues have not fully matured yet. You are still growing just like you were 10 years ago. Your endocrine system is not fully developed, and introducing changes to it can alter it permanently. For example: in men, testosterone is what signals the body to close the growth plates in your bones. Around age 18 or so your body's test production is at its peak. This causes ossification (the process of making bone) to increase around the area of the growth plates in your bones so that it overtakes the cartilage growth plate. This effectively closes your growth plates and you are done growing. Taking something that boosts or alters your test levels can cause them to close too early.

Furthermore, your body has what is called a negative feedback system to regulate certain hormones. Test production is one of them. Basically, when test levels are at a certain hight, it sends a signal back to your brain that tells it that your hormones are at a max, and your body stops producing test. So anything that boosts your test will only work for a short period of time, if it even works.

So thats that guys. Don't mess with your hormones until you are over 25 years old and have spend 5 years or more training naturally. Here is a good way to think about it: If you wanted to learn how to ski, you wouldn't start by buying ski accessories, you would start by learning how to go down the hill. So learn how to eat and train before you mess with your body. Because you only get one of those, and you don't want to mess it up.

Also, a word on anti-estrogens: Don't use those either. Your body needs estrogen to build muscle, and low estrogen leads to a whole host of bad side effects, one of which is the inability to get an erection.

Here is a good source to start reading:

Pri-Med Patient Education Center - Testosterone, aging, and the mind

[A-Ron21]

Heres another relevant article: Supplements For Teens

Whats that? They agree with me?

Apparently I'm talking to nobody in particular, but whatever.


Edit-

Oh hey guys, heres another thing to think about. If you have a crappy diet, and you start taking test boosters to make up for it, where do you expect the extra test to come from?? Freaking candyland?? Your body can't make test if it doesn't have the materials to build it.

Also, DHT is the active form of testosterone in tissues.

[mitbar]

sticky this please.

[A-Ron21]

Finally someone replied. Thanks Mitbar!

[Mr Moley]

Great thread. Really informative. I won't be touching any :)

Only 16 :)

[Big MuMbO jUmBo]

those stupid test boosters never did a damn thing for me but make my wallet thinner

[jlavvley]

i work at a gnc its a damn ****hole its rediculous how many kids around 18 19 come in and buy them cuz there not growing and need a extra boost GOOD ASS POST

[kbw62]

Originally Posted by A-Ron21

If you wanted to learn how to ski, you wouldn't start by buying ski accessories.

Actually, that's what I did. I baught all the most expensive and flashy snowboarding equipment so I look like a ballin gangsta going down the mountain.

[mikeh40+]

nice post A-ron,
sorry i just saw this, and its a very important topic, especially to the teenage and even into the early 20`s age bracket, these supplements cause more harm than good, and not having any knowledge or proper information is very important , just another example of how some company's just put this stuff out on the market with no regards to the health of people buying their products,

[A-Ron21]

Originally Posted by kbw62

Actually, that's what I did. I baught all the most expensive and flashy snowboarding equipment so I look like a ballin gangsta going down the mountain.

Nice first post. You spelled 'bought' wrong lol

[fbreijo]

thank's for the advise aron21 you made my mind up on test boosters, not gonna even bother trying them......wheather i need it or not ill never kno

[A-Ron21]

Originally Posted by fbreijo

thank's for the advise aron21 you made my mind up on test boosters, not gonna even bother trying them......wheather i need it or not ill never kno

A good way to tell if you need it or not is to evaluate these couple of things:

do you have a hard time achieving erections?

do you have excess fat deposits?

Are you testicles normal size? (Testicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Have you developed secondary male sex characteristics? (such as deepening of the voice, pubic hair, etc)

If you have these then you MOST LIKELY don't need a test booster.



AND in any case (here's the home run) if you DID have a problem with any of the items I listed above, a test booster WOULDN'T CUT IT! You would need hormone therapy! So they are useless if you are still growing!

[fbreijo]

thank's bro,believe it or not i have better,and longer erections now than when i was 19, all im doing is working out, my doctor claims it could be the l-arginine
im taking but i feel great, just desicated liver tab's, 1000 mg l arginine, multi, and some omega 3's, and optimun nutr protein.thats it for me keep all the other stuff pro this hormone that, thanks i was just being curious cause i hear guys in the gym talk, well thanks again..

[A-Ron21]

Its probably the combo of arginine and working out, obviously if you train legs that releases lots of growth hormone and testosterone, but arginine is also a natural growth hormone releaser, and it works really well too.

[fbreijo]

at 43 years old im just glad i can get the boner's im getting.my wife loves it thats for sure lol

[ueckert23]

A-Ron,

I have been going to the gym for about 2 months now and the owner of the gym is a bodybuilder. I have been asking him questions about supplements and training. When I asked him for a list of supps to get, one of the things on the list was the test booster. I bought it but after reading your post I wonder if it was the right thing to do. I have been taking it for about a week now along with other things and I do see a difference but, I can't tell if its the other supps or the test booster. Need advice?

[A-Ron21]

Originally Posted by ueckert23

A-Ron,

I have been going to the gym for about 2 months now and the owner of the gym is a bodybuilder. I have been asking him questions about supplements and training. When I asked him for a list of supps to get, one of the things on the list was the test booster. I bought it but after reading your post I wonder if it was the right thing to do. I have been taking it for about a week now along with other things and I do see a difference but, I can't tell if its the other supps or the test booster. Need advice?

Hmm. Well, how old are you? What is the test booster that you bought? Chances are it is probably the other supplements combined with the weight training, but if you are in your late 30's it could be working a little bit, OR it may also be placebo effect, which actually is a completely real effect.

[ueckert23]

Originally Posted by A-Ron21

Hmm. Well, how old are you? What is the test booster that you bought? Chances are it is probably the other supplements combined with the weight training, but if you are in your late 30's it could be working a little bit, OR it may also be placebo effect, which actually is a completely real effect.

In 2001 I got forced out of the Marines due to a knee injury. I used to run to stay in shape and due to the knee injury I doomed myself to a sedentary life style. Subsequently I gained about 100 Lbs. I always blamed my weight gain on my not being able to run.

On Jan 4, I stopped using that excuse and decided to join a gym and get fit by lifting weights.

My goal is not just to slim down but to gain muscle mass as well.

Age: 33

Height: 5ft 11in

Weight: 285

Caloric Intake: between 2400 to 3000 a day I am averaging about 2654 at the end of the week.

Training:

3 day split-

day 1= Chest/Tris/Abs

day 2= Back/bis/calves

day 3=Shouldars/legs/abs

I do this Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

I do at least 30 minutes of Walking with a running stoller,with to kids in it, when I get home from work. at about 5:30pm sometimes I go longer. (my wife is doing the P90X workout videos and I keep our 4 kids out of her hair while she does that) Normally 60 minutes. We we are done walking we play basket ball, toss the football, etc.

Weekends it depends but I try to do something for atleast 30 minutes.

Supplements:

-100% Whey Protien (optmium nutrition) I talk 30 min before work out and right after.
-NOXplode (BSN) before workout
-Lipo 6
-Cellmass by BSN
-Met-Rx Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris 250mg 3x daily
-AST Multi PRO 32x Mulit-vitamin
-500mg Vitamin C
-SciVation Xtend
-Casien Protien before bed.

I am basically doing what the owner told me to do he has kind of tailor made a plan for me. He wrote me out a workout, supp, and eating plan and I have been following it to the tee. I am tired of being out of shape and am will to do almost anything to get the results I want. (Naturally and with in reason that is.)

I have bolded the booster and put it in italics. I guess i just don't want to be taking something that is going to screw me up. I read your links and believe that what you are saying but I have also discussed it with my “trainer” and he seems to think that I would be fine. I guess I am seeking a second opinion.

[A-Ron21]

Tribulus Terrestris doesn't really work. There are a couple studies floating around that I honestly don't know where to find but it really doesn't work that well. Plus I have another thread where I made an entire arguement against it, if in fact it DID work.

Long story short - your pituitary produces Leutinizing Hormone (LH), which affects the leydig cells in your testicles, and signals them to produce testosterone. Testosterone feeds back to your anterior pituitary and tells it to STOP producing LH. It also converts to estrogen, which tells your hypothalamus and anterior pituitary to stop producing LH as well. (hypothalamus produces a hormone called GNRH which tells the pituitary to release LH). So basically if the tribulus worked, your bodys own feedback mechanisms would cause it to stop working shortly thereafter.

Your other supps look pretty good, you kind of have a lot of stuff but hey if you can afford it go for it. Try to do some sort of cardio every day. The weight training looks pretty good.

You should post your diet and training routines in the bodybuilding section for more input. There are other people on this board that can help you a lot more.

Just remember that your DIET is whats going to give you most of your results. Training comes next. If you stick to your diet you will get good results.

Go marines!

[ueckert23]

Thanks A-Ron

[ImTooDamnBig]

Honestly, nothing should replace a real diet. Eat properly AND add in whatever else is what yields the best results.

[leviathan]

So exactly what does the Test Boosters do if you take them?
what benefits you get?
what are the expected results?
The time frame expected to see the effects on taking them?
Wich one should I buy if I decide to get one?

Im 26 years, 1.75mt, 176lb, 16% Bodyfat,

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by leviathan

So exactly what does the Test Boosters do if you take them?
what benefits you get?
what are the expected results?
The time frame expected to see the effects on taking them?
Wich one should I buy if I decide to get one?

Im 26 years, 1.75mt, 176lb, 16% Bodyfat,

if they actually do anything, its to promote you bodys natural production, kinda like a boost to the boys,
results would be increase in lean muscle, lower body fat,
time frame all depends on the if they actually work,
if you missed the first post on this thread, it basically fills all your questions
here is post #1

Hi everyone. I am sick of coming onto the supplement section and reading about 18 year old kids who haven't gained 20lbs in one month and think that they need to buy a test booster. In the following paragraphs I am going to point out why people under 25 do not need testosterone boosters, and why it is stupid to mess with your hormones if you don't know what you are doing.

I think this thread should be stickied so that it will prevent those kind of threads from popping up as well as helping people understand why they shouldn't do what they are intending on doing.

Also I am going to make this as concise as possible because I don't want to spend a lot of time on it, I want it to be a quick and informative read.

The effect of diet and exercise on testosterone production

Having a proper diet and exercise routine is the best way to maintain healthy testosterone levels. If you do not have your diet, training, and rest tuned in, then your gains, and eventually your test levels, will suffer.
Your body needs Protein, carbohydrates, fat, vitamins, and minerals to be able to function properly. Specifically, if you want to gain weight, you need to be taking in more calories each day than you burn.
Focus: A testosterone booster should never be a substitute for a poor diet.
If you are having trouble gaining weight, then the first thing you need to do is examine your diet. Avoid alcohol. If you want to learn more, go to the nutrition section of this forum.

The next part is your training and recovery. Your body releases testosterone, growth hormone, and other anabolic hormones when you exercise. The best way to keep a high testosterone level is to train hard and regularly. Going to the gym and benching every other day isn't going to cut it. Train your legs. The biggest muscles will release the most testosterone.
Also, do cardio. Men with lower bodyfat have higher test levels because fat cells convert testosterone to estrogen.

Recovery: Training balls to the wall every day is not good for your body. You break it down in the gym, and you build it back up when you rest. You need a good 8 hours of sleep or more each night to really recover from tough workouts. Your pituitary and testes release the most GH and Testosterone during sleep. So get your rest.

Why you shouldn't mess with your hormones

If you have to ask about a test booster, you shouldn't be messing with your hormones. Period. Your body's hormonal cascade is very delicate: changing one part changes everything else. Hormone fluctuations can produce very serious side effects and it is not just all kittens and rainbows like the advertisements say. Testosterone production is at its highest in males around age 17 and 18. Your body is literally a test factory.

This is in fact a very BAD time to mess with your hormones. Why? Because your body's organ systems and tissues have not fully matured yet. You are still growing just like you were 10 years ago. Your endocrine system is not fully developed, and introducing changes to it can alter it permanently. For example: in men, testosterone is what signals the body to close the growth plates in your bones. Around age 18 or so your body's test production is at its peak. This causes ossification (the process of making bone) to increase around the area of the growth plates in your bones so that it overtakes the cartilage growth plate. This effectively closes your growth plates and you are done growing. Taking something that boosts or alters your test levels can cause them to close too early.

Furthermore, your body has what is called a negative feedback system to regulate certain hormones. Test production is one of them. Basically, when test levels are at a certain hight, it sends a signal back to your brain that tells it that your hormones are at a max, and your body stops producing test. So anything that boosts your test will only work for a short period of time, if it even works.

So thats that guys. Don't mess with your hormones until you are over 25 years old and have spend 5 years or more training naturally. Here is a good way to think about it: If you wanted to learn how to ski, you wouldn't start by buying ski accessories, you would start by learning how to go down the hill. So learn how to eat and train before you mess with your body. Because you only get one of those, and you don't want to mess it up.

Also, a word on anti-estrogens: Don't use those either. Your body needs estrogen to build muscle, and low estrogen leads to a whole host of bad side effects, one of which is the inability to get an erection.

Here is a good source to start reading:

Pri-Med Patient Education Center - Testosterone, aging, and the mind

[trickyballa3]

test boosters as in pro-hormone or pro-anabolic? or both?

[A-Ron21]

Well a pro-hormone would be a pro-anabolic if it converts to anabolic hormones. So anything thats going to affect your hormones. Leucine is pro-anabolic, but thats not hormonal. See the difference?

[trickyballa3]

So what would usp labs asteroid stack be?

[A-Ron21]

Not sure. Do they effect your hormones? I think they're supposed to be non hormonal but I'm not familiar with the products.

[robbyybt]

Originally Posted by A-Ron21

Tribulus Terrestris doesn't really work. There are a couple studies floating around that I honestly don't know where to find but it really doesn't work that well. Plus I have another thread where I made an entire arguement against it, if in fact it DID work.

Here's three for you! and if I find more in the next few days (which if i look hard enough I probably will easily) I will post them up aswel for you. Pubmed is where I usually get most my studies, or ebscohost but thats through my college so I doubt you'd be able to get on it.

Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.

PMID: 17530942 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

PMID: 10861339 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Tribulus terrestris is a nutritional supplement highly debated regarding its physiological and actual effects on the organism. The main claimed effect is an increase of testosterone anabolic and androgenic action through the activation of endogenous testosterone production. Even if this biological pathway is not entirely proven, T. terrestris is regularly used by athletes. Recently, the analysis of two female urine samples by GC/C/IRMS (gas chromatography/combustion/isotope-ratio-mass-spectrometry) conclusively revealed the administration of exogenous testosterone or its precursors, even if the testosterone glucuronide/epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E) ratio and steroid marker concentrations were below the cut-off values defined by World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). To argue against this adverse analytical finding, the athletes recognized having used T. terrestris in their diet. In order to test this hypothesis, two female volunteers ingested 500 mg of T. terrestris, three times a day and for two consecutive days. All spot urines were collected during 48 h after the first intake. The (13)C/(12)C ratio of ketosteroids was determined by GC/C/IRMS, the T/E ratio and DHEA concentrations were measured by GC/MS and LH concentrations by radioimmunoassay. None of these parameters revealed a significant variation or increased above the WADA cut-off limits. Hence, the short-term treatment with T. terrestris showed no impact on the endogenous testosterone metabolism of the two subjects.


PMID: 18282674 [PubMed - in process]

[A-Ron21]

Thanks man! Reps coming your way.

[Cork]

Originally Posted by A-Ron21

OR it may also be placebo effect, which actually is a completely real effect.

You should get a kick out of this article. People are getting better responses to placeboes than trial drugs!
Placebos Are Getting More Effective. Drugmakers Are Desperate to Know Why.