[El Pelon]

does epidrol really help you lean out and help your bench increase by i think it said like 56% in certain amount of weeks?

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by El Pelon

does epidrol really help you lean out and help your bench increase by i think it said like 56% in certain amount of weeks?

well from what i found its about the same as doing epistane, but here is a log this guy did, the 56% claim in bench increase is just that, another claim to promote the product, i used the epistane a few months back, got some good strength but not much as far as size like all the claims, had some blood work done and with pretty much all oral ph`s it messes up your good HDL by dropping it lower than the 20`s numbers of good HDL should be 40-80, mine dropped to 12, didnt effect the bad cholesterol LDL but its the good that was a concern for me, anyway here is his recap of his epidrol cycle

Roehrigs01 Genera Supplements Epidrol Log Final Review…

Well, the end has come for my Epidrol cycle… used 1 bottle that was given to me to log by Genera and ran for 30 days exactly. Subject: 34, white male, ectomorph/hard gainer. Starting weight was 152.4, end weight 155.6 on the 30th day. Starting bf by bf scale was 10.0%, end was 10.0%, which computes to a change of +3.2lbs of LBM & +/-0lbs of bf.

Diet was average with a few brews over the 30 days…Took in about 2500-3000 cals a day.. 40p/40c/20f w/ some sporadic protein shakes thrown in when I think it is needed. I didn’t eat clean all of the time, but wasn’t eating crap all of the time either…

I started with 3 pills daily (30mg) per Genera’s request. The sides kicked in after a few days. Dosage was easy as I took 1 of each at 7am, 2pm, 9pm. At first, the backpumps at the gym were killing me…ended up throwing in some taurine (2-3g) pre-wo which helped nicely… The rest of the cycle was a breeze…

Sides experienced due to the Epidrol:
Painful back pumps when working out & some tightness in back usually 30mins after dosage.
Libido was fine throughout with a slow decrease of testicular size and amount of ‘load’ produced. No total shutdown experienced.
Face was oilier then usual with some increase in the amount of whitehead acne on forehead & shoulders.
Good: strength increased nicely (which is what I really wanted), added a few pounds of lbm as a hard gainer and side effects were minor.

Current Stats (1RM):
bench 187 (start: 163lbs) - Change of 15%
squat 211 (start: 163lbs) - Change of 29%
dead 283 (start: 223lbs) - Change of 27%
Sum BSD 681 (start: 549) - Ave Change of 24%

Bad: none really… back pumps were annoying but bearable w/ taurine. Really got tired of taking all those support supplements though…

Side notes: I did have some slight tendonitis of r. elbow and r. achilles tendon. Rest and the Cissus seemed to help it immensely. I don’t feel this cycle and the tendonitis are related though.

Other Supplements (ED):
Lift days:
-4cap ED Anabolic Innovation Life Support (cycle support)
-1cap ED Optimum Nutrition Melatonin at night (sleep support)
-3cap ED USPlabs SuperCissus Rx (joint/tendon support)
-3cap (3g) ED Vitamin World Taurine (backpumps) - 3g b4 gym
-2cap ED Vitamin World Potassium Chelated 99mg (backpumps) b4 gym
-3cap (1.5g) ED GNC No-Flush Niacin (lipid control)
-2cap ED Source Naturals Essential Fatty Acids (omega 3 & 6)
-2cap ED Costco Performance Multi-V

Off days:
-4cap ED Anabolic Innovation Life Support (cycle support)
-1cap ED Optimum Nutrition Melatonin at night (sleep support)
-3cap ED USPlabs SuperCissus Rx (joint/tendon support)
-3cap (1.5g) ED GNC No-Flush Niacin (lipid control)
-2cap ED Source Naturals Essential Fatty Acids (omega 3 & 6)
-2cap ED Costco Performance Multi-V

Would I do it again: Yes… as a pulse though to skip the support supplements & pct. As a full cycle, I might up it to 40mg daily to see how that effects me.

What I would change: 4k+ calories ED clean diet w/ protein shakes… I know I would never last on this, but is the way I think it would be maximized. 4 days per week in gym… liftin’ heavy…

Current status: I have completed my first week of the PCT… no problems…absolutely no sign of gyno…libido is fine…testes are about 75% the usual size and slowly coming back to full size… might drop the nolva early this week and see if I get any signs of delayed gyno..I expect not though on the delayed gyno coming..

What’s next for me: Well, right now… I am at the end of week 1 of pct… have 1 more week to go. After that, I will be doing a 2 week supplement ‘detox’ and will going down to minimum supplements for the last 2 weeks. Thinking just the multi-v, fish oil, nettle root, niacin and super cissus. I will still be working out as usual, as well. Sept 14th I have a lipid profile. I like my new routine and will be sticking with that for the next few months as I am planning to start a HAVOC/TRENADROL pulse on the 16th of September 07. Even though it is a pulse, I am interested in seeing if I can notice a difference between the Havoc and the Epidrol from this last cycle.
__________________
Me: 34, 5-9, 155, 10% - The ECTOMORPH

[El Pelon]

thanks man,

but ahhh, whats one good Supplement you would say that will work to help me get stronger

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by El Pelon

thanks man,

but ahhh, whats one good Supplement you would say that will work to help me get stronger

creatine will help, but if you looking at a ph havoc has been toted to work better than epistane, also a company called usplabs has some products that show big promise in that area with out any of the ph side effects and no post cycle support needed, you may want to check those out, here is a link from orbit nutrition with the usp labs stuff, check it out and see what you think, some guys on the forum are starting to use some of these supplements, i may try USP Labs Asteroid Stack in jan. of 09,
USP Labs : Orbit Nutrition
good luck bro,

[El Pelon]

thanks alot man!! ill look through them for sure, and again thanks

[mitbar]

def havoc for win with phs for what you want. just do your research and make sure you have cycle assist and a proper pct lined out.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by El Pelon

thanks alot man!! ill look through them for sure, and again thanks

anytime, if you go with the usplabs stuff let me know how it works for you, also with the havoc, like mitbar said line up some cycle support if your going with a ph tho, during and after your cycle you need to use something to help keep the liver from getting thrashed. i used 6oxo after the epistane cycle and some cycle support during the epistane cycle, make sure you do some checking if you go with the havoc, and we can let you know what to use for that during the cycle, good luck bro

[El Pelon]

Hey, (out of the topic)

Right now i take SuperPump before my workout, i wanted to know if i can also take my creatine mono. before and after working out?

[allstar]

yes but morning and PWO are the key times to take creatine, not pre workout.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by allstar

yes but morning and PWO are the key times to take creatine, not pre workout.

read the link about creatine usage and sides
Bodybuilding.com - Creatine Monohydrate Information and Product Listing! Creatine Monohydrate FAQ!


excerpt from the above link
4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?


Excellent results have been observed in taking creatine monohydrate in two different ways. The first way is called loading. This method works very well for anyone who has never taken creatine before. Just as the name implies, it involves loading up or saturating your muscles with creatine. During the first four days to a week, take 20 to 30 grams per day. Mix it with non-acidic juice or water. Grape juice works well. After this loading period, take a regular intake of between five to fifteen grams per day to keep your muscles saturated (no need to over do it). The other method is a more gradual approach to supplementing with creatine monohydrate. Over the course of an extended period, one basically skips the loading phase and just supplements with five to fifteen grams per day, everyday.

[/QUOTE]The best results have been noticed when creatine is combined with a high carbohydrate base, such as dextrose (glucose) and taken about one-half hour before training. [QUOTE]

[allstar]

dextrose pre workout? The only times you should be getting a insulin spike is morning and PWO thats what i say to take creatine than

[JakeVendetta]

An insulin spike immedietly pre workout could lead to hypoglycemia. Its probably best to take it PWO and morning, as Allstar has said. If you've taken it preworkout with an insulin spike and havent had problems though, i guess go right ahead.

[allstar]

But also taking pre workout can lead to a big shift of water placement and could be over dosing each other, taking both pre and post, you dont have the time to use it up.

[mikeh40+]

just posting what the studies show, not making up the quote`s, i always took it with some grape juice pre workout and had no problems, actually got more of a pump using it pre work out,

[mitbar]

i take mine pre and post and it works great. dont knock it until you have tried it and yes you can use them both up.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by mitbar

i take mine pre and post and it works great. dont knock it until you have tried it and yes you can use them both up.

^^cosign

[allstar]

There are so many studies proving you can take CrM at this time that time and what ever time, I have tried all the protocols and the one I have used and liked the most has also come from a reliable source

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by allstar

There are so many studies proving you can take CrM at this time that time and what ever time, I have tried all the protocols and the one I have used and liked the most has also come from a reliable source

yep and thats ok, everyone kinda has his or her own way to use creatine, i really dont think one way is better than the other, simple fact is the stuff works, and i think we can all agree on that..

[mitbar]

yup what works for allstar may not for me or mike. you should know that by now man. no disrespect bro but thsts the truth with all supps and we were giving our best ways.

[allstar]

Yeah but I was also only giving my opinion on when are the times to take creatine?

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by mitbar

yup what works for allstar may not for me or mike. you should know that by now man. no disrespect bro but thsts the truth with all supps and we were giving our best ways.

for sure no disrespect intended, just different ways and idea`s, its interesting to see what works for other people and what doesnt, thats the great thing with the dungeon, you can do a google search and read different claims, but you just cannot get the hands on experience that people have here.

[stalion]

i take it pre and post
might start first thing in the morning and pwo seems more logical like allstar said even though i haven't had any problems so far

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by allstar

Yeah but I was also only giving my opinion on when are the times to take creatine?

i know bro but it came across as if we are wrong and your right. but we are straight man no worries.

[El Pelon]

thank you everyone!

so its cool either way right?

look i still have my football class in the morning, and we do workout, so i was thinking of taking it after that workout then after my workout in the afternoon, thats perfect right?

[mitbar]

should be as long as the dosages are spread out over 6-8hours. how old are you bro?