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CEE vs. Mono
Old 10-16-2008, 02:44 PM   #1
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Originally Posted by Dr. Stout, T-Nation, "Creatine or Ethyl Ester Creatine"
There are three senarios for CEE

1) CEE is a true covalently bonded ester and is absorbed into blood and tissues as the intact molecule. This is the picture that the
manufacturers would have us believe and is the basis for why they claim CEE is superior to creatine monohydrate. However, inside cells CEE will be unreactive with creatine kinase and may be a potential
competitive or non-competitive inhibitor to the enzyme. This would
make it toxic to brain, heart, testes, muscle and all other CK containing tissues. People by now should be dying, but clearly are not and this means 2) and 3) are the more likely. Nonethess, CEE should be treated as a potentially toxic phrarmaceutical and in the US should be treated as a drug, which requires multi species studies to estimate LD50's and potential sites of tissue damage etc. However, recently I have been told that CEE did get new dietary ingredient status (scary).

2) CEE is hydrolysed to creatine on absorption from the gut. In this
case CEE offers no advantage over creatine monohydrate which has a bioavilability of 100%. Indeed if hydrolysis of CEE is less than 100%
then it will be inferior to the monohydate. But in the case of hydrolysis there are no circumstances in which it could be better than
the monohydrate in increasing tissue creatine levels. Obviously CEE
manufacturers would prefer 1) except that they then shoot themselves in the foot over the issue of potential toxicity.

3) CEE is not a true covalently bonded ester. The whole of this is a scam with the compound ionising in solution to free creatine, as does the monohydrate and all salts of creatine. In this case CEE would again represent no advantage over creatine monohydrate, except to the seller who can double the price.

The failure of the US sports nutrition community (industry and the
universities) to call for closer examination of CEE seriously questions its credibility in the eyes of many scientist in this country and the world. A simple water solvation test would answer 3), i.e. whether or not it was a covalent or ionisable derivative of creatine. The work time would be about one hour. Investigation of whether CEE is a competitive or non-competitive inhibitor of creatine kinase would take 2-3 hours. If either of these occured then clearly CEE must be investigated in at least two species to investigate lethality and potential organ damage. If on the other hand CEE is ionisable then I see no reason why a bioavailability study should not be undertaken comparing this, on a molar/molar basis, with creatine monohydrate. My guess is that plasma AUC would be identical. Again a very simple study.

None of this is rocket science but could spare a few lives, if the
manufacturers claims on the absorption of CEE are to believed.

OH! and one more thought: Another aspect to consider is how CEE would overcome a huge concentration gradient from circulation to muscle if it does not use the creatine transporter and uses simple diffusion as they promote.

Bottom Line: I say stay with good old GERMAN creatine Monohydrate. 500 human studies can't be wrong. :-)
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #2
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This is a good article, but I'll double check the facts because I remember hearing from a study that CEE turns to creatinine in the stomach (not sure how much of a difference hydrolyzed makes) and has less than 50% abortion.

Still good post, reps.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #3
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Wait can't give you reps again yet **** haha.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:43 PM   #4
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Still MONO all the way
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:26 PM   #5
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Allstar, could you post link to some of those studies? I tried finding some studies for my friend who says that creatine is unsafe and refuses to take it, and almost admonishes me for taking it, but I couldn't seem to find any.
 
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:06 PM   #6
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Tell him it's an amino acid. It's in fish.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:09 AM   #7
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I could find you bunch of studies back mono if you would like
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:35 AM   #8
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good post allstar
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:49 PM   #9
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but ronnie takes cem3 and it made him big along with nitrix that provided awesome pumps and cell mass in which made his cells massive along with syntha 6 after my wortout along with some true mass.
if it works for my friend ronnie it will work for me.
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:02 PM   #10
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I think synthol HGH and test are bigger helps to Ronnie than Nitrix. New avy looks huge Prime!
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Now

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Bench :215
Squat:270

Goals
Deadlift: 380 by February 1st
Bench: 250 by February 1st
Squat:300 by February 1st

Work smarter not harder.

Road to my goals--->http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...8-road-my.html
 
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:06 PM   #11
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thanks bro, i think that was before i started to cut down on the body fat. some girl started taking my pic and then i got her number then she text me them so i might as well put it up. i would take more pics but i dont think its cool taking a camera to the gym haha
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prime52 View Post
but ronnie takes cem3 and it made him big along with nitrix that provided awesome pumps and cell mass in which made his cells massive along with syntha 6 after my wortout along with some true mass.
if it works for my friend ronnie it will work for me.
LOL.

sense a bit of sarcasm? maybe. haha.
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