Creatine Ethyl Ester

lithium_09 · 07-28-2006, 08:58 PM

I'm gonna start bulking in a few weeks and I want to try a creatine ethyl ester product this time, as opposed to regular creatine mono I usually use. While I've had success with mono I have gotten rather bloated at times and want something that doesn't need all those simple carbs to uptake as I add fat rather easily from simple carbs. I'm considering something like cellmass or greenbulge, both of which I've heard good things about. I was wondering if you guys could give some opinions/recommendations on esterefied creatine products you've personally used in the past.

Thanx

Mulletsoldier · 07-28-2006, 09:01 PM

I am too lazy to go into the scientific/physiological reasoning behind my statements, so it will be purely anecdotal. I am one of the individuals who actually responds quite well to CEE, I have had success in particular with Designer Supplements XCEED dosed 1 scoop pre-WO and one scoop during. Currently I am enjoying the combination of Gaspari's SuperPump250 and SizeOn, both dosed pre-WO. Another great option would be Anabolic Innovation's Chaos. It has been getting fantastic reviews.

ntmid8r · 07-28-2006, 10:49 PM

I use the Cellmass and NO-Xplode and have gotten great results with absolutely no bloating. It even tastes great too. I highly recommend you try it!

galtonator · 07-29-2006, 12:34 PM

I capp my cee and you will find a good gain in strength with cee with less of the bloated feeling. It realy cheap these days so go for it

absandarms · 07-30-2006, 02:53 PM

I have used NO-Xplode for a while now and I don't workout without it. Good pumps

LakeMountD · 07-31-2006, 09:59 AM

Creatine ethyl ester is a great switch from monohydrate. There seems to be some people out there who don't respond all that well to CEE but I am definitely a responder and even on cycle I can see a huge difference in my performance level on the last few reps of each set and I don't see any bloat whatsoever.

There has been some talk lately that creatine gluconate is the way to go based on the fact that the byproduct of CEE is creatine and ethyl alochol. I am not sure if the levels are high enough to have any sort of negative effect and this statement is mainly being pressed by the company who is promoting it, (forgot the company name but the product is SizeOn). They say the byproduct is creatine and glucose.

It is a little more expensive but it is up to you. Personally I don't care all that much. I created Chaos and I take it every day and love it but there are other great alternatives as well. If you just want the effects of CEE and not the focus/energy/pump from something like Chaos just go to nutraplanet.com and buy some bulk CEE powder. No need to buy any of the other stuff.

Mulletsoldier · 07-31-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

Creatine ethyl ester is a great switch from monohydrate. There seems to be some people out there who don't respond all that well to CEE but I am definitely a responder and even on cycle I can see a huge difference in my performance level on the last few reps of each set and I don't see any bloat whatsoever.

There has been some talk lately that creatine gluconate is the way to go based on the fact that the byproduct of CEE is creatine and ethyl alochol. I am not sure if the levels are high enough to have any sort of negative effect and this statement is mainly being pressed by the company who is promoting it, (forgot the company name but the product is SizeOn). They say the byproduct is creatine and glucose.

It is a little more expensive but it is up to you. Personally I don't care all that much. I created Chaos and I take it every day and love it but there are other great alternatives as well. If you just want the effects of CEE and not the focus/energy/pump from something like Chaos just go to nutraplanet.com and buy some bulk CEE powder. No need to buy any of the other stuff.

That is funny your bring the waste product up Lake. I do realize that because it is reacted with an alkyl, the ethyl group created will make it survive first pass liver degradation giving rise to more product in the bloodstream. Yet, like you I just don't believe there would be enough alcohol waste to pose a problem to the kidneys. I mean when you think about it one should be more worried about the amount of Creatine being degradated to Creatinine with Monohydrate.

On the Gluconate, as I said above it's Gaspari, I have been using it for about a week and have noticed an increase in muscular endurance, and slight strength increases. I'm still not completely sold that bonding the Creatine with Glucose will have any increase in mitchondrial response in terms of cell permeation but I can see how bonding the Creatine as such would create more active in the body (and at a faster rate). Once price comes down are you guys going to consider adding a Gluconate version to Chaos?

LakeMountD · 07-31-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

On the Gluconate, as I said above it's Gaspari, I have been using it for about a week and have noticed an increase in muscular endurance, and slight strength increases. I'm still not completely sold that bonding the Creatine with Glucose will have any increase in mitchondrial response in terms of cell permeation but I can see how bonding the Creatine as such would create more active in the body (and at a faster rate). Once price comes down are you guys going to consider adding a Gluconate version to Chaos?

I've posted on this before, the fact that creatine gluconate is kind of pointless. The only good side is the fact that the byproducts are what they are. But if there isn't enough ethyl alcohol to make a difference in the CEE then who cares, you might as well save your money and go with CEE.

Frankly, I look at it this way. If you take 3 grams of Creatine Gluconate, and creatine has a molecular mass of ~131g/mol and glucose has a molecular mass of ~180g/mol. and assuming there is one creatine molecule bound to one glucose molecule (as I think it is, I don't believe it is di-creatine or anything like that), that would give a total molecular mass of ~310g/mol. That means that the molecule is 42% creatine and 58% glucose. Given that, you can say that 58% of the 3grams taken is glucose and that comes out to ~1.75g of glucose ASSUMING 100% bioavailability etc. (which we know isn't true). Do you guys really think that < 1.75g of glucose is going to have a high enough insulin response to "drive" the creatine into cells? I THINK NOT

.

Mulletsoldier · 07-31-2006, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

I've posted on this before, the fact that creatine gluconate is kind of pointless. The only good side is the fact that the byproducts are what they are. But if there isn't enough ethyl alcohol to make a difference in the CEE then who cares, you might as well save your money and go with CEE.

Frankly, I look at it this way. If you take 3 grams of Creatine Gluconate, and creatine has a molecular mass of ~131g/mol and glucose has a molecular mass of ~180g/mol. and assuming there is one creatine molecule bound to one glucose molecule (as I think it is, I don't believe it is di-creatine or anything like that), that would give a total molecular mass of ~310g/mol. That means that the molecule is 42% creatine and 58% glucose. Given that, you can say that 58% of the 3grams taken is glucose and that comes out to ~1.75g of glucose ASSUMING 100% bioavailability etc. (which we know isn't true). Do you guys really think that < 1.75g of glucose is going to have a high enough insulin response to "drive" the creatine into cells? I THINK NOT

.

Pointles..Meh. I am not sure if I would be so bold as to say that, but I can see your point.

Like I said, the only part that I could scientifically agree with is the rate/efficacy of absorption of the creatine/glucose ion. I do agree with you, as I said, that the amount of glucose present in any given serving is not enough to increase mitochrondrial response in terms of food stuffs uptake in anyway.

mele421 · 08-01-2006, 01:09 AM

Is CEE better than Russian Creatine?

LakeMountD · 08-01-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

I do agree with you, as I said, that the amount of glucose present in any given serving is not enough to increase mitochrondrial response in terms of food stuffs uptake in anyway.

Exactly......POINTLESS... mainly because of the price.

Mulletsoldier · 08-01-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

Exactly......POINTLESS... mainly because of the price.

I'm not sure where I said it was "POINTLESS". I said I was not convinced that mitochondrial response would be increased by an insulin spike caused by the small amount of glucose. However, stated that I can see how overall absorption of the active would be because of increased bioavailability

And to the price I was/am getting the SizeOn wholesale, and can say that I have seen better results from Gluconate than Monohydrate or Ethyl Ester, both in bulk or trade form.