[MaKaVeLi]

the guy i get my supps from reckons that there's not much point in taking both at the same time...i don't really believe him but is there some truth to it??

[Lineski]

I originally heard that as well but just did some digging and found this. Unforunately I could only get the abstract because I'd have to pay for the full-text article and as much as I love you Mak, I'm not paying for ****. LOL

J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug;17(3):425-38.

The effects of 8 weeks of creatine monohydrate and glutamine supplementation on body composition and performance measures.

Lehmkuhl M, Malone M, Justice B, Trone G, Pistilli E, Vinci D, Haff EE, Kilgore JL, Haff GG.

Department of Nutrition and Food Science, Auburn University, Auburn, AL 36849, USA.

ABSTRACT

Twenty-nine (17 men, 12 women) collegiate track and field athletes were randomly divided into a creatine monohydrate (CM, n = 10) group, creatine monohydrate and glutamine (CG, n = 10) group, or placebo (P, n = 9) group. The CM group received 0.3 g creatine;pdkg body mass per day for 1 week, followed by 0.03 g creatine;pdkg body mass per day for 7 weeks. The CG group received the same creatine dosage scheme as the CM group plus 4 g glutamine;pdday?1. All 3 treatment groups participated in an identical periodized strength and conditioning program during preseason training. Body composition, vertical jump, and cycle performances were tested before (T1) and after (T2) the 8-week supplementation period. Body mass and lean body mass (LBM) increased at a greater rate for the CM and CG groups, compared with the P treatment. Additionally, the CM and CG groups exhibited significantly greater improvement in initial rate of power production, compared with the placebo treatment. These results suggest CM and CG significantly increase body mass, LBM, and initial rate of power production during multiple cycle ergometer bouts.

So despite the fact that we can't see the exact numbers in the results and discussion sections, we still get a good idea that taking both at the same time will produce results. Here's another abstract:

J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Nov;17(4):810-6.

Effects of effervescent creatine, ribose, and glutamine supplementation on muscular strength, muscular endurance, and body composition.

Falk DJ, Heelan KA, Thyfault JP, Koch AJ.

Department of Exercise and Sport Sciences, College of Health and Human Performance, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida 32611, USA.

ABSTRACT

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of a combination of effervescent creatine, ribose, and glutamine on muscular strength (MS), muscular endurance (ME) and body composition (BC) in resistance-trained men. Subjects were 28 men (age: 22.3 +/- 1.7 years; weight: 85.8 +/- 12.1 kg; height: 1.8 +/- 0.1 m) who had 2 or more years of resistance-training experience. A double blind, randomized trial was completed involving supplementation or placebo control and a progressive resistance-training program for 8 weeks. Dependent measures were assessed at baseline and after 8 weeks of resistance training. Both groups significantly improved MS and ME while the supplement group significantly increased body weight and fat-free mass. Control decreased body fat and increased fat-free mass. This study demonstrated that the supplement group did not enhance MS, ME, or BC significantly more than control after an 8-week resistance-training program.

Here we kind of get skewed results but it still states that by taking Creatine and Glutamine together there is a significant improvement in Muscular Strength and Muscular Endurance, as well as, a significant increas in body weight and fat-free mass. The results of MS and ME weren't significantly better than the control group, but it was an eight week program and nonetheless it still did out perform the control group in the latter two aspects I mentioned. Once again, they won't let me into the entire full-text article without paying for it so we still don't get to see the exact data numbers.

Either way, I say until someone produces a study that proves they shouldn't be taken together, just keep taking them at the same time.

[MaKaVeLi]

thanks for that bro, wouldv been good to see the whole article but i couldn't have asked for more so no worries! so all in all it's still kind of a grey area i suppose... i'm taking L-Glutamine at the moment and anyhow i'll be hittin the creatine in a week or so and i'll just assuming that each is just as effective (as if they were taken individually) when taken together

[MaKaVeLi]

Apparently Glutamine is more effective with sufficient amounts of BCAAs... sourced from an article in BB.com

Glutamine is the other component of this formula. Glutamine is known to have benefits such as sparing lean body mass during stress, improving the immune system, and increasing growth hormone levels. These are great supplements taken separately, but seem to have a synergistic effect when taken together. The problem in the past had to do with the dosage of BCAAs. To get the desired effect you must take a significant dosage of BCAAs. Fortunately, two companies have come out with powders that combine BCAAs and glutamine. I do not receive any money for promoting these products, but being able to pass along information that I have found extremely beneficial is the most help I could provide.

[lithium_09]

glutamine and creatine stacked works for me. I personally get greater results with glutamine overall which is why i take it year round. Creatine I cycle on and off during bulking phases

[BigBen]

Originally Posted by Lineski367

I originally heard that as well but just did some digging and found this. Unforunately I could only get the abstract because I'd have to pay for the full-text article and as much as I love you Mak, I'm not paying for ****. LOL


So despite the fact that we can't see the exact numbers in the results and discussion sections, we still get a good idea that taking both at the same time will produce results. Here's another abstract:

Here we kind of get skewed results but it still states that by taking Creatine and Glutamine together there is a significant improvement in Muscular Strength and Muscular Endurance, as well as, a significant increas in body weight and fat-free mass. The results of MS and ME weren't significantly better than the control group, but it was an eight week program and nonetheless it still did out perform the control group in the latter two aspects I mentioned. Once again, they won't let me into the entire full-text article without paying for it so we still don't get to see the exact data numbers.

Either way, I say until someone produces a study that proves they shouldn't be taken together, just keep taking them at the same time.

HECKS YEA TAKE EM AT THE SAME TIME. i take creatine 4 times a day, but it only adds up to the recommended amount. Suppose to take 2 tbsp twice a day i take 1 tbsp 4 times a day and it has glutemine in it also CGT 10 is teh shiznitt, seriously! By taking the glutemine 4 times a day more nutrients are forced into the muscle cell. bc glutemine helps force nutrients into the cell among doing other things as well.

[Flex]

This isn't the first time we've had a thread on this subject. BB.com are the only people that have made this theory up, yet they don't apply any proof. Take them 15 minutes apart, but if you take them together no worries.

[jornT]

Well, y'all know I don't believe glutamine does much.

I too, only have acces to the abstract:

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

I know Ironslave said he though there were some advantage's to it (from the top of my head, possible GH sectretion was one) but there's just no significant diffrence in all studies I read to date.

Having said that, there isn't a disavantage to it either in my knowledge and it isn't expensive, so if you can affort it, you got nothing to lose and MIGHT win something with it.

Ironslave, could you list the possible avantages again and if possible tell me where you got them from? Finally, is there something you can think of why there aren't any studies that support evidence that glutamine inproves body composition in resistance training mofo's?

[mindstar]

I respect everyone's opinion, but personally I agree with Jorn

[Flex]

Training without glutamine isn't something I would want, some benefits of glutamine include improvement of immune sytem, gluconeogenesis, it also may include GH secretion.

My opinion: if you are already taking in a good amount of a quality whey protein everyday, it really isn't worth paying the money for it, but it is always good to get an extra 5 grams or so post workout. On a bulk, I wouldn't even bother.

[jornT]

Originally Posted by Flex

Training without glutamine isn't something I would want, some benefits of glutamine include improvement of immune sytem, gluconeogenesis, it also may include GH secretion.

My opinion: if you are already taking in a good amount of a quality whey protein everyday, it really isn't worth paying the money for it, but it is always good to get an extra 5 grams or so post workout. On a bulk, I wouldn't even bother.

Good post

Well about the improved immune system, I once posted some studies that carbs and BCAA's do it just as good, so good call about the bulking. If you cut, it might be benifical.

Once again, it's pretty cheap soyou got little to lose.

[DriDDeRz]

Ive take different creatine products, best one that has worked for me was AST Creatine, ive heard afew people take it with glutamine, but i just take it with water, but i only take it once a day 30 mins b4 training, and sometimes i take it on my days off if i remember to :P

[Ironslave]

yeah, amazing for immune system, gut health, gluconeogenesis, possible sligh GH secretion. Overall, its so cheap now, it doesnt make sence not to take it. I just get it at a local Costco.

Also, you wont hear much on this, I only stumbled accross it a few nights ago, but it may serve as a mild appitite supressant, great for cutting!



F. Reimann1, L. Williams1, G. da Silva Xavier2, G. A. Rutter2 and F. M. Gribble

Glutamine potently stimulates glucagon-like peptide-1 secretion from GLUTag cells

Diabetologia, 47(9): 1592-1601

Abstract
Aims/hypothesis Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) and peptide YY (PYY) are secreted from enteroendocrine L cells in response to nutrient ingestion. As glutamine is an important metabolic fuel for the gut, the aim of this study was to investigate the effect of glutamine on the GLP-1-secreting cell line, GLUTag.
Methods GLP-1 release was measured following incubation of GLUTag cells under a range of conditions. Single cells were studied by electrophysiology, calcium imaging and cytosolic ATP measurement using recombinant luciferase.
Results Glutamine was a more potent GLP-1 secretagogue than glucose or other amino acids, increasing GLP-1 release 7.1±0.7-fold (n=19) at 10 mmol/l, with an estimated median effective concentration of between 0.1 and 1 mmol/l. Glutamine (10 mmol/l) induced a sodium-dependent inward current of 3.2±1.2 pA per cell (n=9), which triggered membrane depolarisation and an increase in intracellular calcium. Asparagine and alanine produced electrophysiological and calcium changes that were at least as large as those caused by glutamine, but they were less effective GLP-1 secretagogues, suggesting that glutamine also potentiates secretion downstream of the calcium signal. This was confirmed by measuring secretion in the presence of 30 mmol/l KCl + diazoxide, or in agr-haemolysin-permeabilised cells. Glutamine increased cytosolic ATP, but was less effective than glucose.
Conclusions/interpretation Glutamine acts as a trigger and potentiator of GLP-1 release, consistent with its role as the major metabolic fuel for the gut. The results suggest that nutritional agents like glutamine might have beneficial effects in diabetes and obesity.

PDF: for those interrested

http://rapidshare.de/files/20268735/...unger.pdf.html

[jornT]

Originally Posted by Ironslave

yeah, amazing for immune system, gut health, gluconeogenesis, possible sligh GH secretion. Overall, its so cheap now, it doesnt make sence not to take it. I just get it at a local Costco.

Also, you wont hear much on this, I only stumbled accross it a few nights ago, but it may serve as a mild appitite supressant, great for cutting!



F. Reimann1, L. Williams1, G. da Silva Xavier2, G. A. Rutter2 and F. M. Gribble

Glutamine potently stimulates glucagon-like peptide-1 secretion from GLUTag cells

Diabetologia, 47(9): 1592-1601

Abstract
Aims/hypothesis Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) and peptide YY (PYY) are secreted from enteroendocrine L cells in response to nutrient ingestion. As glutamine is an important metabolic fuel for the gut, the aim of this study was to investigate the effect of glutamine on the GLP-1-secreting cell line, GLUTag.
Methods GLP-1 release was measured following incubation of GLUTag cells under a range of conditions. Single cells were studied by electrophysiology, calcium imaging and cytosolic ATP measurement using recombinant luciferase.
Results Glutamine was a more potent GLP-1 secretagogue than glucose or other amino acids, increasing GLP-1 release 7.1±0.7-fold (n=19) at 10 mmol/l, with an estimated median effective concentration of between 0.1 and 1 mmol/l. Glutamine (10 mmol/l) induced a sodium-dependent inward current of 3.2±1.2 pA per cell (n=9), which triggered membrane depolarisation and an increase in intracellular calcium. Asparagine and alanine produced electrophysiological and calcium changes that were at least as large as those caused by glutamine, but they were less effective GLP-1 secretagogues, suggesting that glutamine also potentiates secretion downstream of the calcium signal. This was confirmed by measuring secretion in the presence of 30 mmol/l KCl + diazoxide, or in agr-haemolysin-permeabilised cells. Glutamine increased cytosolic ATP, but was less effective than glucose.
Conclusions/interpretation Glutamine acts as a trigger and potentiator of GLP-1 release, consistent with its role as the major metabolic fuel for the gut. The results suggest that nutritional agents like glutamine might have beneficial effects in diabetes and obesity.

PDF: for those interrested

http://rapidshare.de/files/20268735/...unger.pdf.html

I love you so much

[imraan47]

i think i do remember reading on bb.com that dont take glutamine with creatine and went on with saying it uses the same receptor sites or something like that so its not as efficient. wht up with that?

[COOP1]

So is it best to take creatine pre or post workout? Ive heard both....

[imraan47]

i would take it post work out. your levels of creatinine is decreased when u train in the same fashion your glycogen stores decrease. the idea is to replenish those so u will see more results if u take it post work out.