Need insight from anyone with experience on Tren A and Test Prop... (Cutting cycle!)

Chimera · 11-21-2009, 05:52 PM

Alright guys, I am getting ready for the 2010 NPC Northern Kentucky competition and I am going to be running a cycle which will compliment the cutting phase for the contest (understand I have gotten to 5% bodyfat naturally just with diet and cardio, I am not expecting a miracle drug). I am thinking of running this possible cycle:

Week:
1 – 12 Testosterone P @ 100mgs every other day
1 – 10 Trenbolone A @ 75mgs every other day
PCT (Post Cycle Therapy) will start when the half life of the steroid is complete.

My questions are as follows:
1) I was told Test P and Tren A are very painful injections, let alone doing it every other day. I am curious if anyone has any experience towards this and could tell me what their experience was.

2) How should I relate this cycle with regards to my competition, would it matter what week I am on for the contest?

Cheers guys, looking forward to the help!

**HawaiianPride.** · 11-21-2009, 06:10 PM

As far as the painful injects with Prop and Ace, it's true on a lot of different sources. The prop and Ace that I've tried were pretty painful due to the BA content. But the gains were great in the end no doubt. If I could handle 100mg ED with painful Prop, then I'm sure you hang with 100mg EOD. I've tried Test Ace before but it wasn't nearly as painful as the Prop was. It basically comes down to how your source prepares the stuff. Me and Prime get our Prop from the same guys, and his injects are smooth and painless, mine are pretty bad but I managed a full 9 week cycle with ED injects, so I wouldn't be too worried about the soreness of the pinning doing it EOD. There are methods out there to ease the pain if it gets that bad and you can't handle it. Just let me know if you need any tips on that aspect.

But all in all the cycle looks good and kudos for doing your homework. If diet and training are in check, this cycle will bring very minimal water and very lean gains which is suitable for your goals. Just watch out for the Tren's prolactin side effects if it becomes an issue. Let me know if you need any tips on some good prolactin drugs out there.

Chimera · 11-21-2009, 06:14 PM

This might be a noob question, but could I put the test p and tren a in the same needle and inject it once? Being that I am injecting every other day it would stink to do two injections back to back. I am mostly just looking for a way to keep price down, but its not that big of a deal.

Also, as far as planning my peaking phase for the contest... would there be any ideal time of that 12 week cycle (16 if you include the 4 weeks of PCT) where it would also compliment the peaking phase? I want to bring my best possible conditioning to the stage no doubt, the contest is March 27th but I am already amped up!

**HawaiianPride.** · 11-21-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimera

This might be a noob question, but could I put the test p and tren a in the same needle and inject it once? Being that I am injecting every other day it would stink to do two injections back to back. I am mostly just looking for a way to keep price down, but its not that big of a deal.

Also, as far as planning my peaking phase for the contest... would there be any ideal time of that 12 week cycle (16 if you include the 4 weeks of PCT) where it would also compliment the peaking phase? I want to bring my best possible conditioning to the stage no doubt, the contest is March 27th but I am already amped up!

1. Same needle is fine bro
2. As far as ideal times for a 12 weeks cycle in correlation with where you going to hit your peaking phase, I think Kaboom or Prime could answer that better then I can atm brotha, sorry.

Good luck with your show dude, I'm stoked for ya.

**prime52** · 11-21-2009, 06:23 PM

I was jecting prop at 200mg with masteron at 100mg e/o/d into quads. once you condition the quads you dont have to pin anywhere else. once I started pinning quads I didnt have any pain.

yes with the same syringe just make sure you swap the needle for a fresh one after you draw out the gear.

and yes it matters what week your in, u want to cut out the test 4 days or so before contest and use heavy amount of Ai's to get rid of all water retention. any test cause bloat.

you can also include t3/clen about 2 weeks out till show, if your at 5% now then that will defiantly get u down to 3% along with the AAS.

Chimera · 11-21-2009, 06:40 PM

Alright Prime, I will follow that advice as stopping Test 4 days before the show, so that means if the show is on March 27th then I will stop on the 24th (24th - 25th - 26th - 27th). But I won't be able to start this cycle till January 9th at the earliest, so my question would be how would you do it? If I start on January 9th then March 27th is exactly 12 weeks away so I would have to shorten the cycle. I know you want to run test longer then tren but just looking for your insight.

**prime52** · 11-21-2009, 07:00 PM

id do something like this
week 6 prop 150mg e/o/d
week 5 prop 150mg
week 4 prop 150/ trenA 75
week 3 same
week 2 same add clen/t3
week 1 same as above drop test 4 days out

**prime52** · 11-21-2009, 07:01 PM

your lean, and you dont want to bulk up for one month with long esters and eating so run a pre contest cycle as mentioned above 8-6 weeks out you should be good.

**mikeh40+** · 11-21-2009, 09:21 PM

i have no clue about gear, and i give full respect to you fella`s that know so much and are willing to help explain the best protocol on usage,
free advice from experienced user`s is PRICELESS!! good job guys!!

lil_big_junior · 11-22-2009, 04:37 AM

COSIGN Prime. Don't think I need to add anything here

Except maybe add a little Var 80-100mg ED 6 weeks out

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prime52

id do something like this
week 6 prop 150mg e/o/d
week 5 prop 150mg
week 4 prop 150/ trenA 75
week 3 same
week 2 same add clen/t3
week 1 same as above drop test 4 days out

Alright, just wanting to make sure I have this all clear before I talk to my supplier....

Week 6 (Feb 14th-20th) Test Prop 150 mg eod
Week 5 (Feb 21st - 27th) Test Prop 150 mg eod
Week 4 (Feb 28th - March 6th) Test Prop 150 mg eod and Tren A 75 mg eod
Week 3 (March 7th - March 13th) Test Prop 150mg eod and Tren A 75 mg eod
Week 2 (March 14th - March 20th) Test Prop 150mg eod, Tren A 75 mg eod, Clen 100mcg ed, and T3 (25mcg for the first 4 days so the 14th-17th, 50mcg for the next 3 days of the week so 18th-20th)
Week 1 (March 21st - 27th) Test Prop 150mg eod with last pin on the 23rd (four days out before show), Tren A 75 mg eod up to show, Clen 100mcg ed, and T3 (21st will be 50mcg, and then finish off the last 6 days of the week at 75mcg ed)

Contest Date is March 27th, 2010!

Begin PCT after the half life of Tren A is done aka 2 - 3 days after the last pin. PCT will be clomid/nolva 50/40, 50/40, 50/20, 50/20 respectively.

Curious, you mention taking alot of AI's to get my estrogen down and loose all the extra bloat caused with taking test, how would you go about it Prime?

Please let me know if the dosing information looks correct, I did alot of research online but I am always open to improving my understanding of these compounds and how to use them effectively and safely.

**Kaboom** · 11-22-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prime52

id do something like this
week 6 prop 150mg e/o/d
week 5 prop 150mg
week 4 prop 150/ trenA 75
week 3 same
week 2 same add clen/t3
week 1 same as above drop test 4 days out

This looks good and is what i did except on that last week I ran the tren every day even the morning of the show! This was the first time i did this and I came in pretty damn hard.

I think you should run the T3/clen through the whole cycle.Did you say you are at 5% now.If so with the t3/clen and tren you could be hard as a damn rock!!
If you could run adex at 1 mg every other day until last week then run it every day your bloat would stay to a minimum.
Then some good ole dyazide to get rid of the water lol

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 11:26 AM

Oh just to clarify everyone in this thread... No I am not at 5% bodyfat now. What I meant was over the summer when preparing for a bodybuilding show (which I ended up not being able to compete in it due to personal issues) I dieted and did my cardio like a good boy which brought me from 15% bf to 5% bf in a period of 10 weeks.

Right now I am floating around 15% BF give or take. I won't begin to touch this cycle till the start date February 14th and by then I will be single digit bodyfat percentage at least (~9%). I will start dieting and doing cardio the day after Christmas giving me just under 2 months before touching the gear.

**projecthatch92** · 11-22-2009, 11:40 AM

Good luck with the contest bro. What are your current stats?

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 11:53 AM

230 lb's at 15% bodyfat (estimate, no ab definition but still have good vascularity in my shoulders / arms / wrists / chest). I am hoping to squeek in the light heavyweight class (it caps off at 198.25 lb's) so I have about 30 lb's to loose to be in stage physique. Right now I am severely bloated and carrying a lot of water weight from that ph cycle I just finished and doing 20g's creatine mono per day as well as having a high carbohydrate / sodium intake isn't helping me either. I predict that once i start dieting and eating clean I may loose roughly 10 lb's in the first 2 weeks of dieting.

**projecthatch92** · 11-22-2009, 11:56 AM

Cool bro. I bet you're excited as hell. I'll be doing my first show in the beginning of march as well. You going to start a log? If you're not I would consider it. Always helps to get some good free knowledge from everyone on here.

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 12:09 PM

Yeah starting a log sounds fun, I will but I won't be able to start seriously dieting until the holidays are over. I will start sensibily dieting after I get back from thanksgiving break and maybe loose ~5-10 pounds prior to Christmas Break but over all i'm not too concerned. My diet was spot on last time just lost a lil too much lean body mass then what I would of liked and wasn't as hard as I would of liked either, which is what I am hoping this will help me out with by doing this cycle.

**projecthatch92** · 11-22-2009, 12:10 PM

Maybe you dropped carbs too fast as well with all your cardio

**prime52** · 11-22-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimera

Alright, just wanting to make sure I have this all clear before I talk to my supplier....

Week 6 (Feb 14th-20th) Test Prop 150 mg eod
Week 5 (Feb 21st - 27th) Test Prop 150 mg eod
Week 4 (Feb 28th - March 6th) Test Prop 150 mg eod and Tren A 75 mg eod
Week 3 (March 7th - March 13th) Test Prop 150mg eod and Tren A 75 mg eod
Week 2 (March 14th - March 20th) Test Prop 150mg eod, Tren A 75 mg eod, Clen 100mcg ed, and T3 (25mcg for the first 4 days so the 14th-17th, 50mcg for the next 3 days of the week so 18th-20th)
Week 1 (March 21st - 27th) Test Prop 150mg eod with last pin on the 23rd (four days out before show), Tren A 75 mg eod up to show, Clen 100mcg ed, and T3 (21st will be 50mcg, and then finish off the last 6 days of the week at 75mcg ed)

Contest Date is March 27th, 2010!

Begin PCT after the half life of Tren A is done aka 2 - 3 days after the last pin. PCT will be clomid/nolva 50/40, 50/40, 50/20, 50/20 respectively.

Curious, you mention taking alot of AI's to get my estrogen down and loose all the extra bloat caused with taking test, how would you go about it Prime?

Please let me know if the dosing information looks correct, I did alot of research online but I am always open to improving my understanding of these compounds and how to use them effectively and safely.

day1 40mcg clen/ 10mcg t3
day2 60mcg clen/ 20mcg t3
day3 80mcg clen/ 40mcg t3
day4 80mcg clen/ 60mcg t3
day5 100mcg clen/ 80mcg t3
day6 120mcg clen/ 90mcg t3
day7 120mcg clen/ 100mcg t3
day8 120mcg clen/ 100mcg t3
day9 140mcg clen/ 120mcg t3
day10 140mcg clen/ 100mcg t3
day11 120mcg clen/ 90mcg t3
day12 100mcg clen/ 80mcg t3
day13 80mcg clen/ 70mcg t3
day14 60mcg clen/ 60mcg t3
day15 40mcg clen/ 50mcg t3
day16 40mcg t3
day17 30mcg t3
day18 20mcg t3
day19 10mcg t3
day20 5cg t3

yes adding a oral suck as winny halo or var would defiantly help out!

more popular Ai used during competition would be letro. it demolishes almost all estrogen, for a more lean water free look.

also exemestane or arimdex will do as well<as a alternative to letro

lil_big_junior · 11-22-2009, 02:07 PM

COSIGN Prime bro...sound advice here boys

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 02:12 PM

So curious where would Day 1 be with regards to the weeks? Week 1? Week 2? Week 3? Would Day 20 be the Contest Date so I will just have to work backwards?

Also, you mention to start taking ai's after I am done with test p, aka 4 days out before the show to get rid of any water retention caused by the test, is this correct? So I will do my last pin of test prop on March 23rd then the next day (March 24th) I will start to take Letrozole, correct? Would .5 mgs per day be sufficient? And although it is not that common to use Letrozole for pct needs, would I still take it throughout pct or just those 4 days to get rid of water retention?

Thanks for all the help guys!

**Kaboom** · 11-22-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimera

230 lb's at 15% bodyfat (estimate, no ab definition but still have good vascularity in my shoulders / arms / wrists / chest). I am hoping to squeek in the light heavyweight class (it caps off at 198.25 lb's) so I have about 30 lb's to loose to be in stage physique. Right now I am severely bloated and carrying a lot of water weight from that ph cycle I just finished and doing 20g's creatine mono per day as well as having a high carbohydrate / sodium intake isn't helping me either. I predict that once i start dieting and eating clean I may loose roughly 10 lb's in the first 2 weeks of dieting.

with all the bloat and water retension you mention you will come in well under 198.Its very possible that if you get lean enough you will be closer to 180

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 02:46 PM

Well Kaboom last time I was ultra lean I was 5.5% bodyfat at 187 lb's. Since that I have had a pretty good offseason (so far, I will see how tight I come in for the contest before I give my final judgement on it) and think I would like to be closer to 195 lb's close to 3% bodyfat give or take. We will see though, I cannot wait to start preparing for this!!!!!

**Kaboom** · 11-22-2009, 02:46 PM

also another thing no one has mentioned is that you are only aloowing a 12 week diet to cut for the show.You already have at least 32 lbs to lose then you say you might put on 5-10 lbs. At 2 lbs a week 12 weeks is only good for 24 lbs.I know its hard to diet thru holidays but you might want to start a clean diet and just cheat on holidays.

**Kaboom** · 11-22-2009, 02:48 PM

we would all like to be 195 3% lol

Do you have any pics? We could kind of judge from there

**prime52** · 11-22-2009, 02:51 PM

Ai's during cycle
serms post cycle

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 02:54 PM

True Kaboom, if weight lost for a bodybuilding show followed a linear pattern of a rate at 1 - 2 lb's per week then giving myself 12 weeks to lose 30+ pounds would not be enough time. I will start dieting for this as you said and only "splurge" on the holidays, but believe me the last time I started to diet I lost 28 pounds (215 lb's start to 187 lb's end) in 10 weeks but the first 2 weeks I lost over 10 lb's of water. I am curious to see how I will do this, this will be very fun to watch!

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 02:56 PM

Oh Mr. Prime, would Day 20 in that layout you gave me correspond to the day of the contest? Thanks!

Chimera · 11-22-2009, 03:05 PM

Alright, here is the best "lean" picture I have of me at 5% bodyfat. This was taken back in August when I dressed up for the midnight showing of GI Joe.

Here is a picture of me taken back in late August after I stopped intensely dieting and I am 20 pounds heavier in it (I'm on the right hand side)

I will do my best to get a good photo of me taken today.

**HawaiianPride.** · 11-22-2009, 03:06 PM

Nice tats :p