[ibanezman88]

hey dungeon mates.

i was just wondering, there's so much misinformation out there on pro-hormones. a little here in the steroid section but a lot more in other forums like anabolic minds, ***********, and bodybuilding.com.

my goodness.

most people will tell you to run an oral for 3 weeks at a pussy ass dose. and then, they'll tell you to run liver support, hawthorne berries, cycle support (which already has liver support and hawthorne berries in there to begin with), and a bunch of rediculous sh*t.
they tell you to preload all that stuff and then take it durring. along with a whole bunch of other unessesary supplements.

and then, for PCT, they tell you to run the same thing, hawthorne berries, liver support, POST cycle support, anti-estrogen, cortizol blocker, testoserone booster, and a SERM on top of all that. this is where creatine and no2 also start to keep gains.

it's like, my GOODNESS!!! look at all the money was spent right there. for what? a 2-3 week oral cycle that MAYBE put 5lbs of lean mass on you?

wow. that's not worth it at all.
it would be MUCH cheaper to run a cycle of real gear because nobody seems to run that many supplements while on the real deal for some reason.

not only are the cycles rediculously short and underdosed most of the time, but they're not really 2-3 week cycles because they waist the first 2 weeks ramping it up from the lowest dose possible.

they don't gain nothing in the first two weeks, and then in the third, a few lbs come in and it's time to start PCT. that's just stupid.

and what's with this pulsing? everybody wants to pulse pro-hormones. how many people have you heard of pulsing dbol? waist of money. and i can't imagine using an oral for a couple of weeks and then go 2 weeks without taking anything. that's just not right.
and the gains will not be as good as running it streight and it will just be a waist of money.

also, people are sayin' stuff, that superdrol will shut you down HARD and that it's more potent than dbol and other illegal orals....that's bullcrap to me. everybody says you'll get testicular attrophy....everybody.....but i never hear of people complaining about it. if superdrol shuts you down sooooo hard, why did i only get very minor atrophy? in fact, i can't even figure out if they shrank at all!!! maybe it was all in my mind cuz i was told that they were gonna shrink for sure....

i'm just sayin' why not just

preload hawthorn berries and liver support before the cycle,
pick an effective but safe dose of a hormone,
run it for 4-6 weeks just like a normal oral steroid,
and just run clomid and nolva post cycle?

much cheaper, much less complicated. all the rest is really unessesary.




and don't even get me started on all the other rumors and other misinformation like "bad batches". underdosed batches, chemical make up of the compound,
everybody talks like they're scientists and know about all of this stuff.
they don't
truth is, theres really no way of telling exactly what you're putting into your body. people think, my friend said he gained 30lbs from epi but i'm not gaining that much so it must be a bad batch. oh my god.

oh, and i also see a lot of people giving other people advice on PCT. one time somebody told someone who was running havoc to run clomid in this manner

week 1 - clomid 300mg (i think that's what it was)
week 2 - 100mg
week 3 - 50mg

what the junk?
just for havoc
and the thing that pissed me off is that everybody agreed with him.

one person says something on an internet forum...particularly somebody that everyone respects a lot. and then the whole board is saying it all over the place.

i can go on and on about this.

it gets very rediculous.

and pro-hormones mostly appeal to teenagers and skinny dudes who want to find the easy way out. i swear, everytime i read somebody's pro-hormone log no matter where it is, if the weight is above 200lbs, they're usually either over 6 foot, or they're over 20% bodyfat.

i've never read a pro-hormone log made by an experienced bodybuilder who has a good amount of muscle on them that they got naturally. that i can respect more.

but these teenagers and skinny dudes soak up all this stuff like a sponge. doing mini-cycle after mini-cycle and they look the same after so many cycles.



phew.....anybody else see what i see?
it's crazy rediculous.
hope i'm not alone on this one.
and please let me know if i broke any forum rules
i hope i didn't.

[LIFTBIG18]

same goes for steroids use bro, ive heard alot of meatheads who dont know **** tell people to take deca and dbol with no test b.c test "bloats" you, fact of the matter is that as long as the stuff is out there and ppl can get access ppl wont do research in learning how to use the compounds the right way

[ibanezman88]

actually, now that i think about it, there's misinformation EVERYWHERE about bodybuilding in general. everything that is in any way related to bodybuilding.

[stalion]

Originally Posted by ibanezman88

actually, now that i think about it, there's misinformation EVERYWHERE about bodybuilding in general. everything that is in any way related to bodybuilding.

That's why i hang around the dungeon.Ive learned so much here thanks to all of you.
read your log on sdrol hope pct goes well for you.

I'm running an epi cycle in 2 weeks or so and it wouldn't of been possible with all the info that's in the dungeon

thanks

[harmankardon1]

i never even really considered pro hormones even if i could have got them, something more toxic and less effective dunno why anyone who can get real gear would bother. i dont want to sound like an ******* ibanezman but you yourself were running a prohormone log and were pulsing like 15mgs doses werent you? were you disheartened from your results??

[gringo220]

Now I agree with you to a point but can see why someone would do a ph instead of real gear. Some might want to be in the FBI or maybe some other type of job that polygraphs you about drug use. A PH is legal so therefore you'll pass it but steroids aren't. Another reason is some people don't want to take the chance on getting busted with real gear and catch a case over it and I can't balme them but they still might need a boost to get past their plateau. Now I'm sure that most guys taking a ph understand they'll never get into the next Mr.O but it will give them a little edge over their training.

And Kenny, this is the net and no matter what you look up weather it's steroids,cooking or fixing cars this thing is full of nonsense. That's why we always tell people to research the stuff for a long time so they can take in everything and sort out the bullcrap and get the truth. And I've seen that pct posted before on another forum in a guys signature like it's a good idea..lol... If someone wants to do it then they get what they deserve! At least we will be safe in what ever we do because we care.

[mitbar]

yup lots of bull crap out there thats why you have to research and read until your eyes hurt to sort through everything. i dont know how many hours i have read up on **** out there to make sure its accurate and not stupid ****.

i also agree that no one taking phs will get into the mr O but like in my case i am competing in a local show first then after this my wife and i agreed to take the next step.

[harmankardon1]

good point gringo there are certain circumstances when prohormones could be the go.

[ibanezman88]

Originally Posted by harmankardon1

i never even really considered pro hormones even if i could have got them, something more toxic and less effective dunno why anyone who can get real gear would bother. i dont want to sound like an ******* ibanezman but you yourself were running a prohormone log and were pulsing like 15mgs doses werent you? were you disheartened from your results??

of course
and i've done some SERIOUS research since then. when i ran that cycle, i was relying on internet forum advice only for information.

and that's another thing? where did you hear pro-hormones were more toxic than the real deal? it all depends on what you're running. there are fairly mild ones like epistane/havoc/h-drol that are very mild on the liver.

[mitbar]

they are harder on the liver than straight test or anything injectible would be.

[mr_bhana]

I see that on a lot of other boards, dont post **** if you dont know what your talking about

Roids for personal use is legal in the UK, so it makes more sense to take them

[gringo220]

That's it, I'm moving to the UK!!!!!

[ibanezman88]

Originally Posted by mitbar

they are harder on the liver than straight test or anything injectible would be.

oh yeah of course

but i was talking about orals

and DAMN bhana, you've been making some good improvements lately. i've been seeing them in your avatar.

[mikeh40+]

first off kenny nice thread, your underlying statement is pretty sound in my opinion, that is what brought my to the dungeon in the first place was a search on a ph, i found your log on the epistane cycle and subscribed to the dungeon so i could ask you some questions about your run, finding a good source of information on these supplements is ever more confusing, thats why this forum is such a excellent value to the internet, people like you, gringo,LBJ, ECH, chris, freak, mperk, KM, Mikenyy,Mitbar... where do i stop, sorry if i left anyone out of the list, but guys like all of you that put out honest experience and knowledge are what the bodybuilding community need, a no bullcrap,(really hate this sensor thing) and honest informational forum for those looking for advice or info, the supplement companys are no help since they place unheard of claims about their products and with no pct to use after ingesting their products, i have to admit i knew nothing about pct before coming to the dungeon, god only knows what would happen if i just decided to throw all those ph`s into my body, trying one after the other just because of the need to believe in the product claims, and having no idea as to the side effects of ph use, the guys that put the info out about proper gear usage and cycle runs along with pct on this forum deserve a huge thank you from everyone on the net looking for guidance in the usage of gear, that make their way to this forum, you guys have probably saved many people from doing the wrong thing, i`m grateful of everyones guidance on this great web site. the ph supplements are a scary thing to be out there on the market with so little information, i dont disagree with having them, since i have used only one cycle, and probably wont use a ph again, but these younger guys can cause some bad damage to them selves, something needs to be done on the industry's side to make them more accountable for their products, and lack of information about them. i know the bottom line is do the research but since there really is no medical studies done on the ph`s that are out there its just a hit and miss as to who to believe, how much to use and for how long, instead of the government being so down on gear and ph`s they need to but out some information on the usage and proper pct, not just the harmful side effects bashing the usage of steroids,,just look at the info about cocaine, heroin, ect... these are all illegal but there are plenty of scientific studies to read up on, so whats the difference with gear or ph`s? maybe if we got someone in the government that actually understands the whole bodybuilding community things would change, funny how they want to change the look of obesity in the population but dont have much in the way of RDA changes for bodybuilders, < thats going to be a new thread shorty> , seems being bodybuilders or just anyone into fitness, needs to make our own assessments on daily food intake and health needs, where as the regular population has all kinds of daily food intakes and exercise requirements the government has sponsored, thank god We SPONCER EACH OTHER!!

[ibanezman88]

good post mike
seriously

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by ibanezman88

good post mike
seriously

naw just going off of your`s bud, reps for getting this started, long time coming if you ask me..

[GRAVESY079]

Originally Posted by gringo220

That's it, I'm moving to the UK!!!!!

Maybe get a work visa or something like that for the length of a cycle and pct.
lol
only if i could

[gringo220]

lol.. Not a bad idea. No work where I am so why not go there, work and get huge while doing it..lol

[BarbarianWarrior]

WOw. I can believe people would even consider taking such a rediculously high dose of clomid.
The sides with taking that much clomid would be crazy. Good luck with your vision lol

[ibanezman88]

and good luck in trying not to kill yourself lol.

[BarbarianWarrior]

lol

[lil_big_junior]

Originally Posted by gringo220

lol.. Not a bad idea. No work where I am so why not go there, work and get huge while doing it..lol

Make sure you bring all the money you've saved up since you were a little kid bro. It's expensive as fuk over here, ESPECIALLY GEAR :(. Prices of gear over in the UK on the black market is more than double of what you guys pay in the US. Atleast out here there aren't very many fakes going round Another plus is, orders from legit sites ship to the UK with NO PROBLEMS

[ROM7]

Wow! Well put Big K, misinformation is everywhere you turn, from the diet we should follow to the rep ranges and workouts. Some of the variations may be attributed to the obvious difference in response between body types. But the net can be full of dangerous and possibly deadly info. I can't even dream of moving up to "the next level" because I wouldn't know where to begin. [no dose info,no safe source ( I am not asking for a source, just making a statement) and no true info for pct] The fda (not that i am a fan) has no idea what is in p/h. and the label can claim almost anything with no regard to consistency from pill to pill. As a former skinny guy, still under 200,I support your views, and I can assure you I will not add to the misinformation out here. I refuse to use my body as a testing ground for the supplement makers, but at the same time, I am open to new information. I have trouble taking sides on the p/h and steroid issue because I don't have the answers either. I guess this is just my long version of saying I AGREE WITH YOU!

[ibanezman88]

good point there ROM.

we that use these supplements are merely guinea pigs. it's either up to the daring, or the really stupid...like me.. hahaha.

[mr_bhana]

Originally Posted by ibanezman88

oh yeah of course

but i was talking about orals

and DAMN bhana, you've been making some good improvements lately. i've been seeing them in your avatar.

Thanks bro, eating your meat and veggies and always giving your training 110% = progress.. u should know

If you read the write ups of what companies say about their PHs, a very few do recommend a proper PCT. Others just tell you take the cycle support made by themselves

[mr_bhana]

Originally Posted by lil_big_junior

Make sure you bring all the money you've saved up since you were a little kid bro. It's expensive as fuk over here, ESPECIALLY GEAR :(. Prices of gear over in the UK on the black market is more than double of what you guys pay in the US. Atleast out here there aren't very many fakes going round Another plus is, orders from legit sites ship to the UK with NO PROBLEMS

Damn I would think cus its legal here, it would be cheaper compared to somewhere where its illegal. What about British lab made products, are they expensive too?

[F-111]

kenney, great post dude, i agree 100%. as u'd know ive run epi before and i got pretty good results from it. in my personal case the only reason i went for a ph over gear was i couldnt get a hold of real gear at the time, and i was curouis to see what all the hype was about. ive had bloods done since and everything is perfectly normal. im gonna keep this short and sweet cuz i gotta go to work but ill be back later with a few comments.

so much to contribute to this....

[lil_big_junior]

Originally Posted by mr_bhana

Damn I would think cus its legal here, it would be cheaper compared to somewhere where its illegal. What about British lab made products, are they expensive too?

Gear is still illegal here bro to an extent as it's classed as a class C substance which means it's controlled & managed. Illegal to buy or sell over the counter or sell off the streets or in the black market. But not illegal to possess for personal use with or without a prescription. But being caught giving just one little bit to a friend will have you locked up. If it ever gets pushed up to a class B substance (which I doubt it ever would) all us bbders who use it will definetly be fuked train & tunnel style.

LOL what British made products, most gear labs come out of EU countries such as Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Holland, Russia etc...But the majority of gear (that I know off) come from Romania especially the newer batches of Stealth stuff...Then you'd have the odd one or two places in Thailand, Iran, Isreal, India, Pakistan etc...If gear was made on our home turf, the prices over here would plummet.

Although, there are rumours of some UG home brewers making their own gear in & around Birmingham :O

[GRAVESY079]

^ with it being illegal to buy and sell, but not to possess, are you able to bring it in on your person for another country through customs.?

[lil_big_junior]

LOL, nope...I'm sure if you're caught you'd get your gear confiscated. UNLESS you have a PRESCRIPION