[mitbar]

hey here are alot of questions that are asked and have compiled a cheat sheet so to say. this is a compilation of info i have found on other boards reputable sites like steriod.com and my personal research.

SUPERDROL OR SUPERDROL CLONES

I have compiled a few commonly asked questions new users ask before getting into superdrol . Please note that this thread is by no means makes you completely knowledgeable. I am not a guru on superdrol so please do not take this as the beacon of knowledge.


I am 18, I have had 4 years plus lifting experience, I feel I’ve reached a plateau and want to use superdrol:
I’ve heard this question over and over and would to prevent all those below 21 who want to use superdrol, or any other ph under the age of 21. This is basically inhibiting your body’s natural production of testosterone. Between the ages of 18 thorough 21, males experience the highest test production. If you feel you want to supplement, I would strongly suggest you look for Test boosters, like tribulus and 6oxo. Please note that this has nothing to do with your lack of so called maturity or the feeling that youngsters are careless. This is scientific and numerous studies have been performed in this regard.

I have just got my superdrol , how do I use it?
The safest way to use superdrol is to keep the dosage low. All over the boards you can find people using superdrol up to high doses of 40mg. I would suggest the following cycle.

Week 1 – 10mg
Week 2 – 20mg
Week 3 - 20mg

I would personally never recommend over 20mg. 3 week cycles are proven to be safe and effective.

What times of the day do I take superdrol?
SD has a low shelf life, around 6-10 hours therefore make sure you plan your intake every 6-8 hours.
Different people have different opinions to this question. From what I've seen, the over all consensus is to take the first dose in the morning with an empty stomach with loads of water.
The next with your preworkout meal with good fats like EFA's , Flax and fish oils, peanut butter. Superdrol takes a heavy toll on your lipid profile. A carb and fat rich meal would somehow help a little bit here. This is my opinion, others differ with it. Preworkout superdrol gives awesome pumps during the workout/weight training routine.

Does superdrol require a PCT?
Like every ph on the block SD needs a PCT.

Give me a sample superdrol PCT.

wk1: 50mg nolva or clomid, 600 6oxo,
wk2: 50mg Nolva or clomid, 600 6oxo,
wk4: 25mg Nolva or clomid, 300 6oxo,
wk3: 25mg Nolva or clomid, 300 6oxo,

Is 6oxo and Rebound XT good enough by itself for a superdrol PCT, most people say it is enough No! By no means is 6oxo or Rebound standalone strong enough to restart the test production in your body. You need a SERM! Period!

Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an superdrolcycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate.


If budget permits you can also look into NAC.

Does running milk thistle along side superdrol inhibit gains.
No, silymarin does not inhibit any gains and does not have any chemical significance. It is purely for the liver. Its effect however is best in the preload and pct.

What are other good supplements I can run along side superdrol to combat side effects?
Red Yeast Rice- A fermented rice product, that is our best fighter against negative sides form AAS concerning cardiovascular damage. Comprised of nine different monacolins, which are naturally occurring substances that help regulate cholesterol levels. Along with sterols, and monounsaturated fatty acids, it packs a strong punch.
Dosage : 1.2g ED

COQ10- Although this is abundant in food sources, I feel it prudent to put on here. Not only does it show to help cardiac function, but it’s also imperative to be used with Red Yeast Rice. Can be used in combination with other cholesterol lowering supplements.

Celery Seed- A powerful anti-oxidant, shown to not only lower blood pressure, but may have cancer fighting properties as well. And there is evidence to show its ability in aiding the liver.

Hawthorne Berry: Also very useful to lower BP and keep it on check. A great on cycle supplement.
Dosage 1000mg ed on cycle.

Policosanol- A blend of fatty alcohol’s, shows great promise in its use as beneficial to cardiovascular health, to include the maintenance of healthy lipid profiles. There is also some theory to a synergistic affect with EFA’s.
Dosage : 20mg 2x a day

Saw Palmetto: The prostrate is one delicate part of your system that you do not want to affect under any circumstances.
SP @ 320mg/day

Primaforce ProLiver or Liv52.

These supplements are very necessary ON cycle as well as in the PCT.

I took superdrol, its 2 weeks up, I still don’t see any change. Why?
Well, its not superdrol’s fault, there is some mistake on your part.
SD will not work if your lipid profile is all haywire.
Most people underestimate the simple dictum of eating heavy and eating right. Please make sure that your calorics are adjusted to your body weight and height. I do not need to comment on your nutrition, but make sure that you take in 1.7-2g of Protein /lb of body weight.Roughly around week 2.5 through 4 you should start gains of 1lb/day.
Make sure your carbs and EFA’s are at a maximum
You need to drink @ least 1.5 gallons of water while on superdrol.

My cycle is over, I have to keep my gains, how do I do it.
If you want to keep your gains, make sure you take nolvadex. You will lose a little bloat/size due to water retention. Its good to take creatine and nitrous based compounds or cell volumisers at this point to keep your gains. I have not used CEE, but am looking to do so in the near future.

I had a very satisfying cycle, my pct made me recover fine, I want to get back into another cycle.
Well,this is something I've seen in many people, the temptation to use m1t and superdrol. Sure it does give good results, but you've gotta understand that you have a life apart from bbing. Imho make sure you give a full two month gap between cycles. After all you've got just one liver to use for a lifetime.

I do not know where to get the necessary supplements/ chems for my PCT.
Please do not ask on the forums for sources. I will try to help you through secure mail or pm’s. READ! Most experienced users in their logs mention the brands of nolva they use, if some just had the sense to google them……………

What are the important things I should know about Research Chemicals?

15.2 grams of Tamoxifen Citrate equal 10mg of Tamoxifen (nolvadex)
If a research Liquid manufactuer were unaware of this, and they suspend 10mg of Tamoxifen Citrate in 1 ml of solution and claimed a dosage of 10mg of Tamoxifen/ml then it would be underdosed to the tabs.

Of course if they claimed 10mg of Tamoxifen and added 15.2 grams of Tamoxifen citrate then they would be giving the correct dose of then 10mg of Tamox/ml relative to the tabs.

If they say 10mg of Tamoxifen citrate there not lying about the dose, it's jus not as much as the 10mg tabs of nolvadex.

NOLVADEX_ (tamoxifen citrate) Tablets, a nonsteroidal antiestrogen, are for oral administration. NOLVADEX Tablets are available as:

10 mg Tablets. Each tablet contains 15.2 mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 10 mg of tamoxifen.

20 mg Tablets. Each tablet contains 30.4 mg of tamoxifen citrate which is equivalent to 20 mg of tamoxifen.

So whatz the math?
0.5ml= 7mg tamoxifen
1.0ml=14mg
1.5ml=21mg
2.0ml=28mg
2.5ml=35mg
3.0ml=42mg
3.5ml=49mg
4.0ml=56mg
4.5ml=63mg
5.0ml=70mg

I am not a doctor and neither do my opinions construe medical advice. These are just my views after using and researching about this product and answering a number of queries from users who were as confused as me when I first started it.




[SIZE="1"][CENTER]The superdrol checklist :

Superdrol 10/20/20
RYR 1.2g ed
Milkthistle 1000mg
Hawthorne Berry 1000mg
CoQ10
Policosinol- 20mg 2x ed

PCT:
SERM :Nolvadex 40/30/20/10
AI :R-Xt or 6oxo
Prostrate:Saw Palmetto 325mg

DHEA 200/200/100/100
Fenugreek
Clomid (optional)
RYR 1.2g ed
Milkthistle 1000mg
Hawthorne Berry 1000mg
CoQ10
Policosinol- 20mg 2x ed]

Epistane/Havoc for Dummies

I have compiled a few commonly asked questions new users ask before getting into epistane by IBE. Please note that this thread is by no means makes you completely knowledgeable. I have not used epistane neither have I used Havoc, this thread is written strictly by looking at the chemical structre and with my over all experience with anabolics in general.


I am 18, I have had 4 years plus lifting experience, I feel Ive reached a plateau and want to use this compound:
I've been more than nice to you... you are a retard ... good bye.

I have just got my epistane , how do I use it?
The safest way to use epistane as with any anabolic is to keep the dosage safely low however still effective enough not to be a complete waste.

Week 1 20mg
Week 2 20mg
Week 3 -30mg
Week 4 30mg


For a starter who is giving over the counter (OTC) anabolics a shot personally never recommend over 30mg. 4 week cycles are proven to be decently effective and safer than longer orals.


For the advanced user:

Week 1 20mg
Week 2 30mg
Week 3 40mg
Week 4 40mg

Can I stack epistane with other prohormones/AAS:
You can. would be stupid though.


What times of the day do I take epistane.
I am old school and will not accept to the pulsing/epi till I see blood work, though it does make sense. Simply being that it is speculation based on the free alcohol. However I still feel the best way to take it would be as follows.

Keep the doses prior to 6pm and around 5-6 hours in difference. Like an anabolic take it with EFA's - hormones are fat soluable. So assuming you work out around 6pm, take one with a EFA/complex carb rich break fast and the next dose with small concentrated carb rich pre workout.

As opposed to SD, its hit on the lipid profile would not be as bad, however till I see blood work its better safe than sorry. Load up on all the ancillaries and accessory supplements as needed.

Does epistane require a PCT?
Like every other anabolic on the block epistane needs a PCT.

What is your favourite PCT and WHY?

a serm with an AI or cortisol control sup.

This PCT looks different from your usual Nolvadex sermons. Why?
a) By anecdotal and trial and error I have come to see that the fastest jump back with ZERO downtime is with a SERM+ a real low dose of a scheduled AI
b) Epi if anything will be pretty supressive. I know that I hypothetically sugessted Nolva for SD cycles but looking at the heptatoxicity, I feel that toremifene is better.

Do I need to be worried about gyno on epistane:
Theoretically, no ... but again there is something on paper, something else real world so better safe than sorry. SERM all the way.

What happens if my nuts shrink? Do i stop the cycle?
Not necessary if you ask me. during pct with and anti estrogen and serm you will regain your test production back.

How do I run this clomid?
Clomid is clomiphine citrate
Day 1- 50mg
Week 1 -50mg
Week 2- 25mg if you choose
Week 3- 25mg if you choose

Dont exceed 3 weeks on clomid, avoid the metabolite action.


Where do I get these support chemicals:
Asking for sources is against board rules. Please do not disrespect them. Look in some signatures, they may actually have an answer.

Which is What are other good supplements I can run along side superdrol to combat side effects?
Red Yeast Rice- A fermented rice product, that is our best fighter against negative sides form AAS concerning cardiovascular damage. Comprised of nine different monacolins, which are naturally occurring substances that help regulate cholesterol levels. Along with sterols, and monounsaturated fatty acids, it packs a strong punch.
Dosage : 1.2g ED

COQ10- Although this is abundant in food sources, I feel it prudent to put on here. Not only does it show to help cardiac function, but it?€™s also imperative to be used with Red Yeast Rice. Can be used in combination with other cholesterol lowering supplements.

Celery Seed- A powerful anti-oxidant, shown to not only lower blood pressure, but may have cancer fighting properties as well. And there is evidence to show its ability in aiding the liver.

Hawthorne Berry: Also very useful to lower BP and keep it on check. A great on cycle supplement.
Dosage 1000mg ed on cycle.

Policosanol- A blend of fatty alcohol?€™s, shows great promise in its use as beneficial to cardiovascular health, to include the maintenance of healthy lipid profiles. There is also some theory to a synergistic affect with EFA?€™s.
Dosage : 20mg 2x a day

Saw Palmetto: The prostrate is one delicate part of your system that you do not want to affect under any circumstances.
SP @ 320mg/day

A note on heptatoxicity and liver support:
Liver support : What are your thoughts
While there are many compounds in the market today, most of them which are good too, I stick to my own personal choice for liver protection- Liv 52.
Why?
Here is why
* Capers (Capparis spinosa) - Well-documented hepatic stimulant and protector. Improves the functional efficiency of the liver.*
* Wild Chicory (Cichorium intybus) - Powerful hepatic stimulant, increases bile secretion, acts on liver glycogen and promotes digestion.*
* Black Nightshade (Solanum nigrum) ? Promotes liver and kidney health and has shown hepatoprotective activity in cases of toxicity induced by drugs and chemicals.*
* Arjuna (Terminalia arjuna) ? Tonic for heart and liver. Regulates hepatic cholesterol biosynthesis.*
* Negro Coffee (Cassia occidentalis) ? Digestive and hepatic tonic.*
* Yarrow (Achillea millefolium) ? Stimulative tonic for the liver.*
* Tamarisk (Tamarix gallica) - Hepatic stimulant; also provides digestive support.*

I would recommend a steady dose of Liv 52 starting 2 weeks prior to the cycle. Keep yourself FREE of alcohol on cycle and keep the same dose of Liv 52 in the offcycle.

Liver strength:
Liver toxicity from androgenic compounds and methylation in some cases are over-stated. However, it is of prime importance to understand that the liver is central to all bodybuilding. why? because it is the mother of all detoxifiers, a phoenix in itself that regenerates with damage.
In laymans terms It is also the site where Growth hormone is converted to IGF ... to cut a long story short, if you want to optimize the effect of all these anabolics you are taking, keep that liver of yours fit and fine, because while ON-cycle, you are giving it more damage than necessary

Normally, the liver needs protein to repair itself. During detoxification, however, it may be necessary for a patient to temporarily decrease dietary protein, especially if blood levels of ammonia are high. (Ammonia is a waste product of protein metabolism that can become elevated in advanced cases of liver disease, particularly cirrhosis.) In the absence of elevated ammonia levels, diets adequate in protein can hasten liver regeneration. The sulfur-containing amino acids methionine, cysteine and taurine are particularly important.

Basically for cycle support you can find the majority of the above compounds in AI cycle support or competetive edge labs life support.

PHERA PLEX CHEAT SHEET
Now that SD has been discontinued, I have compiled a few commonly asked questions new users ask before getting into PheraPlex from Anabolic Xtreme. Please note that this thread is by no means makes you completely knowledgeable.


I am 18, I have had 4 years plus lifting experience, I feel I’ve reached a plateau and want to use PheraPlex :
Ok, you know what I am going to say, and you guys are probably bored already hearing my rant, but hey if you are below 21, please do yourself a favor and do not even consider going towards anything hormonal.

This is my first ph cycle
PheraPlex is definitely not a product to toy around with. Unless you are extremely confident about your ability to assess and handle sides, I would strongly advise you to use something else like Prostanazol.

I have got my PP, now how do I start it?
The safest way to use PP is to keep the dosage low and slowly work your way up. Please note that PP is a new compound and as this FAQ is being written, results are pouring in, so go easy, start out low and ramp up to a higher dosage.

Week 1 – 10mg
Week 2 – 20mg
Week 3 - 30mg
Week 4 – 30mg

What times of the day do I take PP?
PP ia best taken when dosages are split throughout the day. The bioavailability is around 8-10 hours, hence one dose after a morning meal and one dose pre-workout would be very advisable.

Does PP require a PCT?
Yes, Pheraplex is highly androgenic and very anabolic. Infact it is more anabolic that Superdrol. That can give you a hint about its potency.So yes, PP does require a PCT.

Give me a sample PP PCT.
Week 5 Nolvadex or clomid 40mg 6oxo –600mg
Week 6 Nolvadex or clomid 40mg 6oxo - 600mg
Week 7 Nolvadex or clomid 20mg 6oxo – 300mg
Week 8 Nolvadex or clomid 20mg 6oxo - 100mg

Is 6oxo/R-xt/Novedex/ ATD on their own good enough by itself for a PP PCT, most people say it is enough
No! By no means is 6oxo standalone strong enough to restart the test production in your body. Also 6oxo is not as effective as Nolvadex. Sure, you can pin me down as Old school but hey, I prefer being safe than sorry. Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an PP cycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate.

Also clomid whit 6oxo would suffice for a pct protocol.


PH Profiles

Methoxy-TSTNomenclature: 17b-methoxytrienosterone
Pill size: 2mg
Dosages: The label recommends 2-6mg daily, but many users report only noticing effects when dosed at 8-12mg.
Side effects: Low liver toxicity. Some users say this is a libido killer, yet others say the exact opposite. Other users report sides of thinning hair/hair loss.
Reputation: Seemingly underdosed, methoxy-TST could be considered an underrated designer, as many users have reported some substantial gains with higher dosages.

Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno/Methyl E/Epi-Max
Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
Dosages: 20-30mg
Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.

Pheraplex/Phera Vol
Nomenclature: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg
Dosages: 10-30mg
Side Effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profile, lower back and calf pumps, some users report aggrevation of gynecomastia with this compound.
Reputation: Solid product for bulking. Wet gains. It is a sometimes used to jumpstart an injectable cycle. This is the less androgenic isomer in the Ergomax LMG matrix.

Ergomax LMG
Nomenclature: 17-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane isomers
Pill Size: 10mg
Dosages: 10-40mg
Side effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profiles, lower back and calf pumps, may aggrevate gynecomastia.
Reputation: Again pretty solid for bulking. Users can expect similar gains as with pheraplex.

Superdrol, superdrol Clones
Nomenclature: 2a, 17a-dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-etiocholan -3-one
Pill size: 10mg
Dosages: 10-30mg
Side Effects: liver toxicity, bad lipid profiles, hypoglycemia, some users report agrivation of gynecomastia with this compound.
Reputation: Side effects vary from mild to extremely harsh, so use caution if planning your first run. Excellent dry gains. Great for bulking or cutting. Explosive strength gains. This is a methylated form of Drostanolone (Masteron)

Methoxy-TRN (Trenadrol)
Nomenclature: 17b-Methoxy-Trienbolone
Pill size: 3mg (trenadrol is 30mg on bottle, however same deal)
Dosages: 1.5-6mg (trenadrol dosed 30mg - 90mg as high as 120mg)
Side effects: Affects libido (some positively some negatively), can aggrevate gynecomastia. May cause thinning hair/ hair loss, elevated blood pressure, aggression. Also another progestin.
Reputation: This guy is a real hit or miss. Some users loved the stuff, while others did not notice anything from it. Noticed increases in strength as well as decreases in bodyfat.

Halodrol-50, and Clones
Nomenclature: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-4-ene-3,17 diol
Pill Size: 50mg
Dosages: 25-50mg
Side effects: Heptatoxicity, lower back/calf pumps
Reputation: Milder than superdrol or pheraplex. Modest gains in mass and strength. Most users take this as part of a cutting cycle. This is a prosteroid of Turinabol.

Prostanozol/ Orasan-E/Winztrol
Nomenclature: [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol
Pill size: 25mg
Dosages: 50-150mg
Side effects: very few sides. Some users report thinning hair/hair loss.
Reputation: Possibly the most mild of the designers, this compound is rarely run standalone. It is often stacked with a methyl compound for a lean bulk or cut. Very mild, yet easily maintained gains. This is a de-alkylated derivative of Stanozol (winstrol).

Finigenix Magnum/Trenaplex/Testraflex
Nomenclature: Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione
Dosages: 50-75mg
Side effects: aggrevation of gynecomastia. This is a progestin (it can convert to trenbolone). Expect tren-like sides.
Reputation: Though there hasn't been much logged on this bad boy, those who've used it have liked it. This is a prohormone to Tren.

Propadrol
Nomenclures: 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene / 6-17 dihydroxyetiocholone-3-ol proponate
Dosages: 1-2 caps daily
Side effects: low side effects
Reputation: User's who've taken it have reported great decreases in bodyfat, while increasing musclemass and strength. Non methyl status means that this product stacks well. NOTE: this is does not contain the same compound as Max LMG. They are close, but no cigar.

Max LMG / Revolt
Nomenclature: 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
Pill size: 25mg
Dosages: 25-135mg daily
Side effects: Can easily aggrevate gynecomastia. May be a libido killer. This is another progestin.
Reputation: A bulking compound through and through. Users can expect great recovery, and wet gains.


M-1,4ADD/AF Methyl-Stak
Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-1,4-Androstadiene-3,17diol
Dosages: 30-90mg daily
Side effects: heptatoxicity, slight possibility to aggrevate gyno
Reputation: Great for a bulk. Wet gains, and decent strength gains. This is a prohormone of Dianabol.

1,4 AD/Bold
Dosages: 300-600mg
Side effects: Mild, acne, oily skin, MASSIVELY INCREASED APPETITE.
Reputation: Very weak and not very cost-efficient at the moment. This compound is often stacked with a methyl to potentiate and accelerate gains. Cycles are usually run at a MINIMUM of 4 weeks as this one takes a few weeks to 'kick in'. Slow, steady, and easily maintainable gains. This is a prohormone of Boldenone.

Promagnon-25
Dosages: 25-75mg
Nomenclature:4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3,17b-diol
Side effects: The usual sides associated with methylated compounds.
Reputation: Very similar to that of Halodrol-50, although people who've tried both seem to prefer Halodrol. For a while a lot of people were conviced that these two products were one in the same. Rest assured, they are not. This is a methyl derivative of clostebol.

Oxyguno
Nomenclature: 4-chloro-17 -methyl- etioallochol-4-ene- 17 -ol-3,11-dione
Pill Size: 7.5mg
Dosages: 7.5-22.5mg daily
Side effects: Heptatoxicity from 17a-methylation. Very low androgenic sides.
Reputation: Despite popular belief, this is not the most myotrophic designer out there: it has the highest Q factor. It is actually only about 77% as myotrophic as the active present in Havoc/Epistane/Hemaguno. Users taking Oxyguno can expect mass gains as well as excellent fatloss. Due to it's incredibly low androgenic ratio, strength gains are not as pronounced.

Furaguno/ Ortasan-A
Pill Size: 33mg
Nomenclature: 5a0androstano[2,3-c] furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
Dosages: 33-99mg daily
Side Effects: very mild
Reputation: Supposedly lowers cholesterol, increases androgenic receptor activity, and does not induce any heptatoxicity. This product is too young on the market to have developed a reputation yet. Get some, log it, and let us know so I can update this compound's profile. This is a prosteroid to furazabol.

AMS 1AD (AMS 1-Androsterone)
Nomenclature: 3β-hydroxy-1-androstene-17-one (1-DHEA)
Pill size: 100
Dosages: The label recommends 100-300mg daily
Side effects:unknown
Reputation:not much info around, some suggest it is just simple DHEA not much is know till people report on using it, Company claims it to be a PH to 1AD then 1AD converts to 1-Test

[mitbar]

could we get this stickied with all the new ph questions going around?

[Jessethebody]

Maybe their should be a PH board?? Good post though were did you find this at?

[mitbar]

compilation of what i have read and researched from mulitple boards and sites like steroid.com.

[Jessethebody]

Oh nice nice.

[Jessethebody]

I tried giving you reps but it said i can't next time though for sure. I think you need them for this post Broseph.

[mitbar]

thanks man i appreciate it. i just figured with the amount of ph pms i have been getting lately that a sticky like this would help out alot.

[mitbar]

Complete Pro-Steroid/Hormone, Designer Steroid Buyers List!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whats happening ladies and gentleman, I've decided to put together this list of a lot, not all, but a lot of steroidal supplements out of complete boredom. Whether your looking for a certain type of clone or a new chemical, look no further, i hope i can help a lot of people out with this. So here we go ...



Superdrol Clones
2a, 17a DI Methyl Etiocholan 3-One, 17b-Ol

- CEL M-Drol, 60 caps 10mg/cap $27.95 ... $.047/mg
- EST Methyl-VOL, 80 caps 10mg/cap $27.95 ... $.035/mg
- Fast Action Pharma S-Drol, 60 caps 12mg/cap $31.95 ... $.044/mg
- GAT Methyl Depot, 90 caps 10.5mg/cap $34.95 ... $.037/mg
- iForce MethaDROL, 90 caps 10mg/cap $36.95 ... $.041/mg
- Black China Labs Straight-DROL, 60 caps 10mg/cap $35.95 ... $.060/mg

Other Information
Best Cycle Length: 3 Weeks
Risk of Sides: There is a high risk factor for side effects with superdrol clones. The Superdrol compound is rated the strongest of the other compound I've listed.
Dosage: 10mg/20mg/20mg for the beginers -or- 10mg/20mg/30mg for novice users. You never should go more than 30mg/day.
Use: The Superdrol compound is a very good lean mass builder. It is suitable to use for either a bulk or a cut. Strength gains come fast and hard, but that also means your strength will drop significantly after the cycle is over.



PheraPlex Clones
17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol

- CEL P-Plex, 90 caps 15mg/cap $24.95 ... $.018/mg
- EST Phera-VOL, 75 caps 15mg/cap $19.95 ... $.018/mg
- Fast Action Pharma D-Stianozol, 60 caps 10mg/cap $32.99 ... $.055/mg
- Growth Labs P-Max, 84 caps 15mg/cap $19.95 ... $.016/mg
- Juggernaut Nutrition Phera-BOL, 90 caps 10mg/cap $19.95 ... $.022/mg
- Kilo Sports Phera-Mass, 60 caps 10mg/cap $46.95 ... $.078/mg
- Black China Labs Straight Phlexed, 60 caps 10mg/cap $35.95 ... $.060/mg

Other Information
Best Cycle Length: 3 Weeks
Risk of Sides: With this compound there is a very high risk for side effects, even more so than the superdrol clones. The PheraPlex compound is right behind Superdrol in potency.
Dosage: this can be dosed very similar to a Superdrol clone. 10/20/20 for beginers -or- 10/20/30 for the novice user, but again definetely do not go over 30mg/day.
Use: The PheraPlex compound is best suited for a bulk. It is more of a 'wet' builder. This is not much of a lean mass builder, but again great for a bulk.



Halodrol-50 Clones
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3-17b-diol

- Anabolic Formulations Halo-MASS, 60 caps 25mg/cap $24.95 ... $.017/mg
- CEL H-Drol, 60 caps 25mg/cap $34.95 ... $.023/mg
- EST Hemadrol, 30 caps 50mg/cap $38.95 ... $.026/mg
-*(Comparable) Juggernaut Nutrition Oral Turinadrol, 60 caps 25mg/cap $31.95 ... $.021/mg
- Black China Labs Super Halo, 60 caps 25mg/cap $37.89 ... $.025/mg

Other Information
Best Cycle Length: 4 Weeks
Risk of Sides: The risk for side effects using a Haladrol-50 clone is moderate. This compound isn't near the potency of either superdrol or pheraplex.
Dose: 50/50/50/50 for beginers -or- 50/50/75/75 for a novice user.
Use: This compound is best suited for a bulk. it is neither a wet or dry builder, it is more inbetween the two.



Epistane & Clones
2,3a-Epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol

- Anabolic Formulations Epi-MAX, 90 caps 10mg/cap $36.95 ... $.041/mg
- EST Methyl-E, 75 caps 10mg/cap $49.95 ... $.067/mg
- IBE Epistane, 90 caps 10mg/cap $42.95 ... $.048/mg
-*(Comparable) Spectra Force Research Hemaguno, 60 caps 12.5mg/cap $48.95 ... $.065/mg
- RPN Havoc, 90 caps 10mg/cap $42.99 ... $.048/mg
- Starmark Labs Hemapolin, 90 caps 10mg/cap $43.99 ... $.049/mg
- Armour Nutrition Epi-Mass, 90 caps 10mg/cap $34.95 ... $.039/mg

Other Information
Best Cycle Length: 4-6 Weeks
Risk of Sides: The risk of side effects with this compound are more than moderate. Epistane and its clones are a very potent steroid.
Dose: 10/20/30/30(/30/30) as a beginer -or- 10/20/30/40(/40/40) for a more novice user. I have read of some people dosing as high as 50mg/day, i wouldnt reccomend it, higher dosing means higher risk of sides. Keep your dose as low as you can with maximum benifit.
Use: Epistane and its clones are best used for cutting. This compound is very dry and is said to have gyno fighting properties. Great for lean mass building, but not a huge size builder.


Products With 2 or More Compounds

- Anabolic Formulations Halo-T 400, 60 caps 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3-17b-diol 25mg/cap & Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione 20mg/cap Trenbolone Precurser + Haladrol-50 $35.95 ... $.013/mg
- Anabolic Formulations Methyl-STAK, 60 caps 17a-methyl-1,4-Androstadiene-3,17diol 30mg/cap & Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione 25mg/cap Trenbolone Precurser + M1,4ADD $39.95 ... $.012/mg
- Fast Action Pharma MD1T, 90 caps 19-Norandrosta 4, 9 Diene 3, 17 Dione 50mg/cap & 17a-Methyl-Etioallocholan-2-Ene-17b-Ol 20mg/cap PheraPlex + Finiplex $59.99 ... $.010/mg
- GXL Original HD, 30 caps 4 cholro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3-17b-diol 25mg/cap & 17-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane 25mg/cap Haladrol-50 + DMT $41.95 ... $.028/mg
- Black China Labs Super Flex, 60 caps 17a-Methyl-Etioallocholan-2-Ene-17b-Ol 10mg/cap & 2a, 17a Dimethyl Etiocholan 3-One, 17b-Ol 10mg/cap PheraPlex + Superdrol $54.95 ... $.046/mg


Here are some more, i didn't quite know how to catagorize them so they're all on there own...


- Anabolic Formulations TrenaPLEX, 90 caps Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione 25mg/cap Trenbolone Precurser $27.95 ... $.012/mg
- Axis Labs Furazadrol, 60 caps 5a-etioallocholan[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether 50mg/cap Orastan-A $49.95 ... $.017/mg
- EST Methyl XT, 75 caps Methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone 20mg/cap M1,AD Comparable $37.99 ... $.025/mg
- iForce BOLD 200, 60 caps 1, 4 Androstadiene-3, 17- Dione 200mg/cap Boldenone/Equipse Precurser $37.95 ... $.003/mg
- Juggernaut Nutrition Win-Ztrol, 90 caps [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol 50mg/cap Orastan-E/Prostanozol $29.95 ... $.007/mg
- Spectra Force Research Furaguno, 90 caps 5a- androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17"-tetrahydropyranol 33mg/cap Orastan-A $48.95 ... $.016/mg
- Spectra Force Research Oxyguno, 100 tabs 4 chloro 17a etioallochol 4 ene 17b ol 3,11 dione 7.5 mg/tab $50.95 ... $.068/mg
- Black China Labs SuperTren Mg, 60 caps 13-Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, 5(10)-Diene-17-One 25mg/cap Max LMG $44.95 ... $.030/mg
- ALRI Jungle Warfare, 90 caps Conjugated (-) 3.4-Divanillyl Tetrahydrofuran, 17-Alkyl-4-Delta-5a-Dehydro-Etiocholan-1,6-Dien-3-One $39.99
- ErgoPharm 11-OXO, 60 caps Adrenosterone 225mg $35.95 ... $.003/mg
- Kilo Sports Revolt, 90 caps 13-Ethyl-3-Methoxy-Gona-2, 5(10)-Diene-17-One 25mg Max LMG clone $28.99 ... $.013/mg



Well everyone, there ends my list, I hope this helps everybody a ton!

[emkay237]

ya sticky this.. good post bro

[mitbar]

PRO-HORMONES/DESIGNER STEROIDS.

These are compounds called Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS). Don't be fooled into thinking that just because they are labeled as such, the compound is nothing less than that of an actual steroid. Some have speculated that they are separated into classes based upon their ability to bind or not to bind to androgen receptors. I on the other hand have found otherwise. William Llewellyn says "Such classification only, and upon reasonable investigation are clearly invalid." Just in case you are wondering what classifications these compounds may be speculated to fall under, I will define them according to that belief. "Pro-hormone," is a term thrown around in forums quite often and is misleading to the everyday workout enthusiast, bodybuilder, and teenager looking to gain muscle. This term gives individuals the ignorant "ok," based on its legality and label of being a pro-hormone and not steroid. When an individual succumbs to this way of thinking there can be dire consequences. This article is a compilation of my beliefs from research that are more than likely shared by many others. The purpose of my efforts in writing this is to inform and educate new users and those who might have some questions regarding pro-hormones. I hope everyone who reads this finds it of some use.

FIRST TIME USERS GUIDE
First time users (21 and older) of pro-hormones should not be tempted by the use of the more potent AAS. It's good to start out with a "mild" type of pro-hormone. By starting out with a mild compound, this allows individuals to get their feet wet in the world of AAS. Never stack two or more compounds on your first cycle as you are just getting started, and don't want to cause any unnecessary side-effect occurrences. I personally recommend H-Drol as the sides are very mild to nonexistent in most users. Although, some users may not experience any associated sides, this does not mean that you are in the clear. Users are still highly advised to plan for PCT and use a SERM, as you can still be shutdown. SERM is referred to as Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator, used to control estrogen. I will explain it's importance later on. Shutdown is the result of high amounts of exogenous hormones (testosterone) being administered, which results in your body hindering (to stop) the production of its own testosterone. This is commonly associated with testicular atrophy. Highly aromatizing androgens (or easily converted to estrogen) are going to cause this easier than non-aromatizing anabolics.

Cycle Length:
Cycles with methylated PHs should last no longer than 4-5 weeks at the recommended dosage. Limiting your cycle to this time period will relieve the stress being put on your liver from the methylated compounds. Temptation of running the pro-hormone past a period of 4-5 weeks should be avoided by new users, as gains are most likely to plateau around week 4.5. New users that continue to cycle past the suggested time frame should only expect side effects to heighten or become more exaggerated. Advanced users can quite possibly lengthen their methylated cycle to 6 weeks on certain compounds. This is not recommended for compounds with high toxicity risks such as Superdrol. None-methylated compounds can be cycled for 8-10 weeks without the risking liver toxicity.

o Novice users:
o Limit cycle length to 4-5 weeks.
o Take the recommended dosage.
o Advanced users can cycle up to 6 weeks.
Non-Methylated Prohormones
Compounds without a methyl attachment are called non-methyls. These compounds are not as effective as methylated compounds on a milligram to milligram basis. However, these compounds are very effective when dosed at the correct amount and period of time. BOLD is a good example of non-methyl that will produce amazing gains without the risk of liver stress. BOLD's effectiveness should not be underestimated as individuals can experience the same side effects as methylated pro-hormones. Since there is a low to zero chance of liver toxicity from these compounds, cycle lengths can be ran to a period of 8 weeks. There have been some individuals who go over 8 weeks and into 10 weeks, but I believe this to be considerable among users who have experience with past cycles. New users or advanced users that want a liver friendly cycle will enjoy both steady strength and muscle gains that are comparable to four week methyl cycles if ran at the appropriate dose.
o EX: Non-Methylated Prohormones:
o - BOLD
o - Propadrol
o - Furazadrol
o - Tren, Trenaplex, Trenadrol

PCT (Post Cycle Therapy)
PCT is a used practice when coming off of a cycle of AAS (Anabolic Androgenic Steroids) to regain homeostasis of testosterone and estrogen and keep the gains of your cycle in tact. This will be the most important part of keeping gains made "on cycle." If performed improperly, you risk losing gained muscle/strength and libido (not good). A very common occurrence when PCT is neglected is the formation of breast tissue around the nipples, called "gynecomastia." The use of a SERM is the best choice for accomplishing the prevention of breast tissue in PCT. A SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) should be the foundation of your PCT. Never start a cycle before obtaining all the necessary components of your PCT, and never leave your SERM out of the equation. You don"t want to be without SERM when your cycle ends or you could run into some estrogen related sides. Adding a SERM to your PCT is the most important recovery tool that is neglected by many users and usually ends up with a bundle of problems that could have been solved with the use of a SERM. Users may want to add a Natural Testosterone booster into PCT to bring sex drive/libido up to par if need be. Cortisol Controllers are not an essential either, but many believe in their use for fighting the catabolic effects one would see in PCT. Creatine (in my belief) should be an essential part of ones PCT to keep muscle hydrated and strength levels high. Creatine is also a very useful anti-catabolic tool in PCT efforts. Dieting during PCT should be the same as "on cycle." With the newly acquired muscle there is a higher caloric intake that you must meet in order to retain new muscle mass. I cannot stress this fact enough to everyone; if you don't eat and diet properly then you will be more than likely to lose gains, fast!

Aromatase Inhibitors:
Aromatase Inhibitors, inhibit/stop the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. The use of over the counter AIs (Aromatase Inhibitors) are sometimes used in place of a SERM for mild cycles or when one is unavailable. Although, some are very effective at eradicating estrogen, their use should not be used in PCT as the foundation for recovery. The use of O.T.C AI's is considered by most; inefficient at accomplishing the goal of PCT and is not recommended for fully recovering from a cycle. AI's can be used during cycle to prevent gynecomastia from aromatizing androgens such as testosterone and Dianabol. Individuals using Cycles in which a mild compound is involved such as H-Drol/halodrol, an O.T.C AI + natural testosterone booster could quite possibly accomplish the task of recovering from a mild PH cycle. Even though I say this, one should always have a SERM on hand while using O.T.C. products for recovery.

SERM
SERMs inhibit estrogen like actions in certain tissues of the body/ regulate estrogen to a manageable level in PCT. A SERM cannot and should not be a question when dealing with anything more than the suggested "mild" pro-hormones. Aromatase Inhibitors should only be used for the suggested "mild" PH's and never for compounds which are given a characteristic that is considered more than mild. Some will tell you that taking an O.T.C type PCT is ok, where an AI such as: "Novedex-XT," is the foundation for their Superdrol cycle. This is simply not true and is very misleading. To believe an individual will fully recover with a O.T.C product like Novedex-XT is ridiculous. Here are some general PCT plans for both mild and advanced compounds:

Sample PCT for mild PH cycle:
o AI (6-OXO/Formestane/ATD)
- Taper from max dosage week by week (4 weeks total)
o Natural Testosterone Booster (Blue-Up/Alpha Drive XL)
- Run throughout the beginning of PCT.
o Liver care (Anabolic Innovations: Cycle Support)
o **optional** Cortisol control ( SNS: Reduce-XT)
o Creatine

Sample PCT for Advanced PH cycle:
o SERM (Nolvadex)
- 40/40/20/20
- Natty Testosterone Booster
- Liver Care
- **optional** Cortisol Control
- Creatine

Liver Support (on cycle) and Options:
- Anabolic Innovations: Cycle Support
- SAMe
- Liver Longer
- **There are many more, but these seem to be the most popular.

Natural Testosterone Support Options:
- Anabolic Innovations: Post Cycle Support
- Blue-UP
- Universal Animal Stak
- HumanaTEST
- Testabolan
- Leviathan Reloaded

STACKING: PRO-HORMONES/DESIGNER STEROIDS
In my belief pro-hormones should be classified by methylation. You should never stack a methyl with another methyl due to the increased risk of liver stress/damage. However, some may stack two methylated compounds at lower dosages without too much risk but should be limited to a brief period. Before actually stacking certain compounds together I recommend cycling with each individual compound before stacking. When stacking one compound foreign to you with another that has been cycled before, you may have an undesired side effect from that compound not yet cycled. Cycling two compounds unfamiliar to your body is dangerous and can result in a very unpleasant experience for you and your body. Cycling each compound exclusively allows for the assessment of your tolerance to a specific compound and the expected results/effects of that compound. When putting together a cycle based on experience and research, you will have certain side-effects to expect and gains to expect while "on cycle." Also, a user might want to assess the PCT required for a cycle of this magnitude as opposed to non-stacked cycles.

When deciding upon a stacking scheme you must take in account that it is better to stack methyls with non-methylated compounds. This can greatly reduce the risk of liver damage/failure. Example: Phera + BOLD is a methyl + a non-methylated compound and has a lower risk of side effects associated with using high amounts of methylated compounds. Superdrol + Havoc, is an example of a methyl + methyl that will surely end up in disaster. In my belief only users that have many proper cycles under their belt could consider stacking two methyls or bridging them at the appropriate milligram to milligram ratio. Even with methyls being introduced at a specific ratio; I think it's still idiotic to say the least. I do however, believe that non-methyls like BOLD are a much better choice to go with when stacking compounds. The given examples lack dosage protocol simply because there are too many people that have different needs/experiences and giving my thoughts of dosage wouldn?t be relevant for many, due to weight and experience. Novice users should follow normal dosages recommended by product label for the most part.


Suggested Example Stacks:

- P-Plex + BOLD
o Weeks 1-3
--- BOLD (only)
o Weeks 4-8
--- BOLD + P-Plex

- Havoc/Epi + BOLD or Trena
o- **Run the same way as P-Plex + BOLD.**
TIME OFF:
Taking time off from the use of pro-hormones/AAS is very important for continuing ones growth and health. Individuals need this time off from using hormonal substances to regain normal hormonal levels in your body. This allows your body time to fully recover from the hormonal havoc you've bestowed upon it for a period of time. During this time you should feel free to use NHA's (Non Hormonal Anabolics). Time off should be equal to the cycle length plus PCT.

Sample Time Off:
Cycle length = 4 weeks
PCT Length = 4 weeks
Total time off = 8 weeks

COMMON ASSOCIATED SIDE EFFECTS:
- Acne
- Aggression
- Anaphylactic Shock
- Birth Defects
- Blood Clotting Changes
- (rare) Cancer
- Cardiovascular Disease
- Depression
- Gynecomastia
- Hair Loss
- Headaches
- High Blood pressure/Hypertension
- Immune System Changes
- Kidney Stress/Damage
- Liver Stress/Damage
- Prostate Enlargement
- Sexual Dysfunction
- Stunted Growth
- Testicular Atrophy
- Water and Salt Retention
- Virilization (women only)

Theoretical Class I:

MADOL (Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT)
- (Phera Plex/P-Plex)
- Compound: 17a-Methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol

METHEPITIOSTANE
- (Havoc/Epistane)
- Compound: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

BOLDENONE
(1,4AD & BOLD)
-Compound: 1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione

PROGESTINE
(Trenadrol & Trenaplex)
- Compound (Trenadrol): 17b-Methoxy-Trienbolone (Trenadrol)
- Compound (Trenaplex): Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione
- Compound (Trena): 19-Norandrosta 4, 9 Diene 3, 17 Dione
- Compound: 19-Norandrostenedione


TESTOSTERONE
(M1T)
- Compound (M1T): 17alpha methyl- 17beta-hydroxy- androst-1-ene-3-one

Theoretical Class II:

MASTERONE
(Superdrol & Clones)
- Compound: 2a, 17a dimethyl-5a- androstane- 17b-ol-3-one

ORAL TURINABOL
(Halodrol-50 & Clones)
- Compound (Halo): 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17-diol

CLOSTEBOL
(Chlorodrol & Oxyguno)
- Compound (Chlorodrol): 4-chlorodehydromethylandrost-4ene-3,17b-diol
- Compound (Oxyguno): 4-chloro-17 -methyl- etioallochol-4-ene- 17 -ol-3,11-dione

STANOZOLOL
(Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno & Clones)
- Compound (winztrol/Prostanozol): [3,2-c]-pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol
- Compound (Furaguno): 5a- androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
- Compound (Orastan-A): [3,2-c]5alpha-androstanol-furazan-17beta-tetrahydropyranol

PROGESTERONE
(Revolt, Propadrol)
- Compound (Revolt): 13-ethyl-3methoxygona-2, 5(10)-dien-17-one
- Compound (Propadrol): 6-17 dihydroxyetiocholone-3-ol proponate-12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene

DIANABOL
(M1,4ADD)
- Compound (M1,4ADD): Methyl-1,4 androstenediol

MIOTOLAN (FURAZABOL)
(Furazadrol)
- Compound (Furazadrol): 17-Methyl-5alpha-androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17beta-ol


SERM LIST

CLOMIPHENE CITRATE
- Clomid

RALOXIFENE
- Evista

TAMOXIFEN CITRATE
- Nolvadex

TOREMIFENE CITRATE
- Fareston

BAZEDOXIFENE

LASOXIFENE

ORMELOXIFENE
- Centchroman

PHARMACEUTICAL AROMATASE INHIBITORS:

ANASTROZOLE
- Arimidex

EXEMESTANE
- Aromasin

LETROZOLE
- Femara

OVER -THE- COUNTER AROMATASE INHIBITORS

ATD
- Novedex-XT

TRIONE
- 6-oxo (4-androstene-3,6,17-trione)

FORMESTANE
- Lentaron, Formadrol

6-BROMO
- Hyperdrol X2, Restore


Reference:
- William Llewellyn. _Anabolics 6th Edition 2007_. 6th. Jupiter, Fl 33458: Body of Science, 2007.

[mitbar]

I have compiled a few commonly asked questions people who have/feel they have gynecomatsia ask. Please note that this thread is by no means makes you completely knowledgeable.
The advice of a doctor is way more valuable,I just post from experience and research

First off, how do I know if I have got gyno?
First, careful examination of the nipple, areoalae and sub-areolar region must be performed. Look for abnormality in the nipple or a nipple discharge or problems with the pigmented areolar region. Careful palpation of the tissue beneath the areolae helps to define a slightly firm "discoid" area which is usually the breast tissue. It is important to determine if it is round, slightly firm and well circumscribed which is normal, versus hard, gritty, irregular and painful, which may signify male breast cancer (which can happen but is rare).
Next the extent, degree and thickness of the fatty accumulation in and around the chest and breast tissue should determined. This can sometimes extend into the armpit. Placing the hands on the hips and pushing hard contracts the pectoral muscle. Here the thickness is determined, the extent of the muscle and any difference from right to left. The hands are placed over the chest to feel the ribs, especially their shape and contour, as wide flaring ribs can sometimes make the chest and breast look larger.
The result of this examination is to determine if the gynecomastia is due to breast tissue, fat tissue, thick muscle or rib contour, and the extent of the contribution from each of these.

Ok now I know I am in deep ****, what all can I try before bra shopping?

TREATMENT OPTIONS FOR GYNECOMASTIA
Imho initial stages gyno can be combated with a very strong pct. Please follow the below mentioned solution only if your problem is really elevated. If it’s just a case of itchy puffy nipples, just run nolvadex starting at 80mg and tapering down to 20mg for 4 weeks.

Nolvadex 80mg Week 1
Nolvadex 80mg Week 2
Nolvadex 60mg Week 3
Nolvadex 40mg Week 4
Nolvadex 40mg Week 5
Nolvadex 20mg Week 6

Ok, I got medical insurance. My doc says surgery is the only way out. What can I expect?
Treatment usually involves both suction-assisted lipectomy to reduce the fatty tissue in the chest wall and direct excision to remove the breast tissue in the central subareolar region. The breast tissue cannot be removed by suction lipectomy alone. Occasionally suction assisted lipectomy alone effectively reduces the bulk of breast fullness, but this is only in men who have gynecomastia as the sole consequence of excess body fat in this region. A combined procedure is necessary for most patients.
The suction lipectomy is performed through a small incision in the armpit. Ultrasonic liposuction is usually preferred as it is more effective in "liquefying" and removing the fat in this region. Then a small incision is made at the edge of the areola to remove the subareolar breast tissue in this location. Rarely, such significant skin excess and hanging loose skin (ptosis) exists that a combined or two-stage procedure is needed. First suction lipectomy removes the bulk of the fat tissue and direct excision of the breast tissue is performed. This allows for contraction of the subcutaneous tissues and overlying skin. The excess skin significantly contracts as the postoperative edema slowly subsides.

[mitbar]

Stuff you need to know about the drugs you take in during your Prohormone PCT:

All over the board you find people telling you stuff about Nolvadex and Clomid. By far personally I feel they are the most effective combination for getting your natural system back with a bang during a PCT. However even these pharma products have their downsides and if abused are problematic. This post is designed for people with preexistent conditions to educate more about the sides of these two drugs.

Nolvadex: Tamoxifen Citrate

If Nolvadex is taken with certain other drugs, the effects of either could be increased, decreased, or altered. It is especially important to check with your doctor before combining Nolvadex with the following:

Aminoglutethimide (Cytadren)
Blood-thinning drugs such as Coumadin
Bromocriptine (Parlodel)
Cancer drugs such as Cytoxan
Letrozole (Femara)
Phenobarbital
Rifampin (Rifadin)


Clomid: Clomiphine Citrate
Visual Symptoms

Patients should be advised that blurring or other visual symptoms such as spots or flashes (scintillating scotomata) may occasionally occur during therapy with clomiPHENE citrate. These visual symptoms increase in incidence with increasing total dose or therapy duration and generally disappear within a few days or weeks after clomiPHENE citrate therapy is discontinued. However, prolonged visual disturbances have been reported after clomiPHENE citrate therapy has been discontinued and these disturbances may be irreversible. Patients should be warned that these visual symptoms may render such activities as driving a car or operating machinery more hazardous than usual, particularly under conditions of variable lighting. These visual symptoms appear to be due to intensification and prolongation of afterimages. Symptoms often first appear or are accentuated with exposure to a brightly lit environment. While measured visual acuity usually has not been affected, a study patient taking 200 mg clomiPHENE citrate daily developed visual blurring on the 7th day of treatment, which progressed to severe diminution of visual acuity by the 10th day. No other abnormality was found, and the visual acuity returned to normal on the 3rd day after treatment was stopped. Ophthalmologically definable scotomata and retinal cell function(electroretinographic) changes have also been reported. A patient treated during clinical studies developed phosphenes and scotomata during prolonged clomiPHENE citrate administration, which disappeared by the 32nd day after stopping therapy. Postmarketing surveillance of adverse events has also revealed other visual signs and symptoms during clomiPHENE citrate therapy (see ADVERSE REACTIONS). While the etiology of these visual symptoms is not yet understood, patients with any visual symptoms should discontinue treatment and have a completeophthalmological evaluation carried out promptly.

ADVERSE REACTIONS


Clinical Trial Adverse Events

ClomiPHENE citrate, at recommended dosages, is generally well tolerated. Adverse reactions usually have been mild and transient and most have disappeared promptly after treatment has been discontinued. Adverse experiences reported in patients treated with clomiPHENE citrate during clinical studies are


Incidence of Adverse Events in Clinical Studies (Events Greater than 1%) (n = 8029*)


Adverse Event %
Ovarian Enlargement 13.6
Vasomotor Flushes 10.4
Abdominal-Pelvic Discomfort/Distention/Bloating 5.5
Nausea and Vomiting 2.2
Breast Discomfort 2.1
Visual Symptoms 1.5
Blurred vision, lights, floaters, waves, unspecified visual complaints, photophobia, diplopia, scotomata, phosphenes
Headache 1.3
Abnormal Uterine Bleeding 1.3
Intermenstrual spotting, menorrhagia

Includes 498 patients whose reports may have been duplicated in the event totals and could not be distinguished as such. Also, excludes 47 patients who did not report symptom data. The following adverse events have been reported in fewer than 1% of patients in clinical trials: Acute abdomen, appetite increase, constipation, dermatitis or rash, depression, diarrhea, dizziness, fatigue, hair loss/dry hair, increased urinary frequency/volume, insomnia, light-headedness, nervous tension, vaginal dryness, vertigo, weight gain/loss. Patients on prolonged clomiPHENE citrate therapy may show elevated serum levels of desmosterol. This is most likely due to a direct interference with cholesterol synthesis. However, the serum sterols in patients receiving the recommended dose of clomiPHENE citrate are not significantly altered. Ovarian cancer has been infrequently reported in patients who have received fertility drugs. Infertility is a primary risk factor for ovarian cancer; however, epidemiology data suggest that prolonged use of clomiPHENE may increase the risk of a borderline or invasive ovarian tumor.

Dermatologic: Acne, allergic reaction, erythema, erythema multiforme, erythema nodosum, hypertrichosis, pruritus, urticaria.

Central Nervous System: Migraine headache, paresthesia, seizure, stroke, syncope.

Psychiatric: Anxiety, irritability, mood changes, psychosis.

Visual Disorders: Abnormal accommodation, cataract, eye pain, macular edema, optic neuritis, photopsia, posterior vitreous detachment, retinal hemorrhage, retinal thrombosis, retinal vascular spasm, temporary loss of vision.

Cardiovascular: Arrhythmia, chest pain, edema, hypertension, palpitation, phlebitis, pulmonary embolism, shortness of breath, tachycardia, thrombophlebitis.

Musculoskeletal: Arthralgia, back pain, myalgia.

Hepatic: Transaminases increased, hepatitis.

Neoplasms: Liver (hepatic hemangiosarcoma, liver cell adenoma, hepatocellular carcinoma); breast (fibrocystic disease, breast carcinoma); endometrium (endometrial carcinoma); nervous system (astrocytoma, pituitary tumor, prolactinoma, neurofibromatosis, glioblastoma multiforme, brain abscess); ovary (luteoma of pregnancy, dermoid cyst of the ovary, ovarian carcinoma); trophoblastic (hydatiform mole, choriocarcinoma); miscellaneous (melanoma, myeloma, perianal cysts, renal cell carcinoma, Hodgkin’s lymphoma, tongue carcinoma, bladder carcinoma): and neoplasms of offspring (neuroectodermal tumor, thyroid tumor, hepatoblastoma, lymphocytic leukemia).

Genitourinary: Endometriosis, ovarian cyst (ovarian enlargement or cysts could, as such, be complicated by adnexal torsion), ovarian hemorrhage, tubal pregnancy, uterine hemorrhage.

Body as a Whole: Fever, tinnitus, weakness.

Other: Leukocytosis, thyroid disorder.

DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE: Tolerance, abuse, or dependence with clomiPHENE citrate has not been reported.

OVERDOSAGE Signs and Symptoms: Toxic effects accompanying acute overdosage of clomiPHENE citrate have not been reported. Signs and symptoms of overdosage as a result of the use of more than the recommended dose during clomiPHENE citrate therapy include nausea, vomiting, vasomotor flushes, visual blurring, spots or flashes, scotomata, ovarian enlargement with pelvic or abdominal pain.

Oral LD50:The acute oral LD50 of clomiPHENE citrate is 1700 mg/kg in mice and 5750 mg/kg in rats. The toxic dose in humans is not known.

Dialysis: It is not known if clomiPHENE citrate is dialyzable.

More at:
aidswasting.com

[mitbar]

over the counter pct guide

Post Cycle Therapy - Why you need to do it
Back in the old days (50's-70's) when steroids were first popularized in the bodybuilding culture, no one ran PCT. It wasn?t until Dan Duchaine wrote his famous book "The Underground Steroid Handbook" that PCT became widely known. Guys were running 21 week cycles with no PCT and yet gynecomastia was still a fairly rare occurrence. Guys were even able to keep some of their mass gains without doing a PCT. Duchaine advocated the use of Nolvadex as the preferred compound for recovery of HPTA after steroid usage. He also advocated the use of Clomid as it has mimetic properties of LH so the use of both together would block estrogen receptors in the breast and help to raise testosterone levels at the same time. At the time, Duchaine recommended getting the stuff in Mexican pharmacies as no prescription was needed to purchase the drugs. Now these drugs have fallen in to a grey area of the law and are available as research chemicals from several online retailers.

Today there is a growing concern among users of research chemicals as to the purity, the legality and privacy issues. Recently "Operation Raw Deal" closed several research chemical retail sites and has people somewhat on edge about purchasing these chemicals. So what can we use to recover HPTA function as quickly as possible and that has no legal, purity or privacy issues?

Luckily, there is growing evidence that a natural SERM has been found in a compound found in wine grapes. The compound? Trans-Resveratrol. The research body is still growing on this wonderful compound but early indications and independent lab tests show that it acts as an antagonist to estrogen when estrogen is present. Moreover, it is selective to breast tissue estrogen receptors. So what does this mean? A SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) blocks estrogen from binding to estrogen receptors in breast tissue, which prevents the formation of ?bitch tits? after a cycle of steroids. These small boobs are the most feared side effect of steroid users. The major cause of these "bitch tits" is the sudden rise of testosterone and thus estrogen during the restoration of HPTA and the estrogen exerting an effect on Estrogen Receptors in breast tissue.

Recovering HPTA Function - Testosterone

Recovering HPTA involves getting our hormones back to a normal level or homeostasis. So what does that entail? I have read several articles that said that boosting LH is going to boost test production. While this may be somewhat true there are plenty of study?s that suggest that males suffering hypogonadism have plenty of LH circulating the body but that the testes do not respond to this message to produce testosterone. So getting our test production back online involves using many different pathways to tell the testes to get busy producing testosterone again.

HPTA recovery involves boosting testosterone production. So how exactly does that work? Are there natural compounds that will boost testosterone? Icarrin which is a compound extracted from Horny Goat Weed is just such a compound. In one study it was determined that Icarriin had testosterone mimetic properties and could be used to treat hypoandrogenism or a lack of androgens in the body. Icariin also is a PDE-5 inhibitor as is the active in Viagra. So Icariin can also help you get your libido back online after a steroid cycle. Libido seems to be directly related to the amounts of androgens circulating in the body which is a direct function of HPTA. So far we have covered two compounds that can help to recover HPTA function. Are there more?

Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C) is an increasingly promising compound on the market and has very interesting properties. I3C can be found in leafy green, cruciferous vegetables such as green cabbage and broccoli. So what is the buzz around I3C? I3C has been purported to have cancer fighting abilities. Interestingly enough its properties include controlling and metabolizing estrogen. Wow! I3C also blocks estrogen receptors in breast tissue so it adds to the SERM properties of Trans-Resveratrol. Recently study's have shown that Trans-Resveratrol may have some agonistic properties on e-2 estrogen receptors. In this PCT protocol we include I3C as a secondary ER modulator to make sure that we cover all the bases.

Lastly, we want to include something to inhibit the rise of SHBG or Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. What does SHBG do? SHBG binds to sex hormones (estrogen and Testosterone) and basically renders them inactive in the body. We have all heard about testosterone boosters that free bound testosterone. Bound testosterone means that SHBG has bound to it and rendered it inactive as it is not able to bind to androgen receptors to have the effects we are looking for to help us keep the gains we have worked so hard for. Divanil is one such compound that has a higher affinity for SHBG than testosterone and consequently estrogen as well.



Estrogen

So now we have recovered testosterone and are on our way to homeostasis. We are now three weeks into our PCT and have blocked estrogen from attaching to estrogen receptors in the breast tissue but as testosterone production has skyrocketed, so has estrogen production, especially since we are inhibiting SHBG?s effects. So what should we do to inhibit estrogen?s effects?

This is where an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) comes into play. Great! Let?s just eradicate estrogen since it is so evil! Well, this isn?t a good idea on several levels. Estrogen is important for muscle generation as well as immune system health and bone health. This is why a lot of people get sick in PCT. Since testosterone and estrogen have likely been suppressed our immune systems are not as strong and have trouble fighting off infection.

There are several AI's on the market and here we will cover one popular choice in 6-oxo. 6-oxo is a very effective compound which is not a complete inhibitor therefore, it let's some estrogen exist while eradicating a majority of it. The idea with AI's is to control estrogen and let it come back to a normal level at a slowed rate. The dosing scheme we will employ starts high in the beginning, and tapers the dose down. This dosing scheme will also help to minimize the possibility of any estrogen rebound as we let the estrogen levels return to a normal state at a controlled rate. AI's should be run towards the end of PCT (weeks 3-4 through weeks 6-7).

Prolactin

Prolactin is another hormone we must be concerned with. It is released from the
Pituitary when dopamine is suppressed. Prolactin gyno has symptoms such as puffy nipples, lumps under the nipples and a clear leakage of fluid from the nipples when squeezed.

There are several ways to combat these sides. Cabergoline, high dosages of B-6 and L-Dopa have been reported to help with prolactin gyno. Cabergoline has a reputation as being highly toxic. B-6 can be toxic at high dosages for extended periods and L-dopa can have unwanted sides as well. All of these compounds are meant to be taken for short periods only to quell the sides of prolactin. If you feel ill or experience numbing in the extremities stop dosages immediately.

[gringo220]

lol..WTF are you board tonight?

Nice posts mitbar, reps my man.

[mitbar]

yeah i got board and research happy lol.

[gringo220]

lol.. Kind of like a refresher coarse isn't it. Nice to have one every now and then.

[mitbar]

yeah its a refresher for me but for others it could be brand new and a good place to start researching.

[gringo220]

You got that right.

[projecthatch92]

mitbar good ****. the forum definately needed something like this

[Asim3000]

awesome post, this was super informative considering i'm looking to do my first PH cycle and didn't know where to start until i seen this post.

[mitbar]

Originally Posted by Asim3000

awesome post, this was super informative considering i'm looking to do my first PH cycle and didn't know where to start until i seen this post.

glad i could help bro, if you have any questions just let us know.

[Axle16]

Good post mit.

[Asim3000]

hey i was just wondering what your guys take was on taking creatine while doing a PH cycle. A buddy of mine recommended taking creatine during PCT instead.

[projecthatch92]

I know of a lot of guys that use creatine during PCT, and I will be doing the same after my spawn cycle

[mitbar]

creatine during pct will help you keep gains and possibly keep gaining.

[TheDr5544]

should you use creatine throughout the entire PH cycle or just at the end when you start your PCT?

[mitbar]

start creatine when you end your ph cycle. creatine during a cycle could cause to much water retention. realistically you could run it both during your cycle and during pct.

[TheDr5544]

Thanks bro!

[westside]

I am starting Hemobolin 250 in the next month or so. These are some great suggestions for my PCT.

[projecthatch92]

Good to hear that. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask, this is the place for it!!