Deca/Sustanon Cycle

MetalMX · 11-14-2007, 08:30 AM

Greetings, this thread is about my friend Ramin who's doing his second cycle comprising of Deca and Sus. Now the first time he did a cycle he told me he did just Deca with no PCT!!! that shocked me... the first thing i asked him was did u get any bitch tits and he said "yer how'd u know that"?

I though to myself. He was a skinny guy to being with so the end result same physique probably worse off hormonally.

He's now doing Deca and Sustanon for the first three weeks he says he will be doing 500mg Deca and 500mg of Sus on Mon and Thursday. The rest of the 10 weeks cycle will comprise of 250mg Deca and 250mg of Sus on Mon & Thur. He says he'll pick up some clomid for after.

He's 19 about 5"10 and 74kg's he says he gained 4kgs so far in his first week into the cycle.

Now what i found disturbing was that he is using 2000mg of gear a week for the first three weeks!!! then 1000mg a week for the rest of the 7 weeks. Thats wayyyyy too much and i think it could mess him up in the future big time... what are your guys opinions on this? could he f*ck himself up?

As soon as i get some replies im going to tell him what you guys at the dungeon think. I think he's an idiot... but then i just want to help him not kill his body hence me writing all this

MrWeapon · 11-14-2007, 08:34 AM

Hey mate, i'm from Sydney Australia aswell.
It seems like a bit too much.

Speak to the more informative boys on here, they're good blokes, they'll help you out heaps.

**TRiddy05** · 11-14-2007, 08:57 AM

You friend is front loading since he is running no orals. The idea is that he will reach the desired blood levels for the compound faster. I think that the general formula there is like 1.75X desired amount for 2 weeks. So he could probably cut it a week shorter than that. But overall I think his test dosage is low and his deca dosage is moderate. He should run at least 1.5X test to deca from what Ive been told. He may run into deca **** but Im sure impotence is nothing new for a guy who cycles deca only or does no pct. He also needs some caber to deal with prolactin build up or he will probably get p.i.g. again as he is prone to it. And sust needs to be shot EOD, I dont understand why people dont ****ing get this. No one would shoot prop twice a week, so why would you shoot sust twice a week. I mean granted it has other esters in it. But the phenylprop needs to be shot E3d at least not every 3-4 days. If it were me I would actually advise him to do more gear, like so:
Weeks 1-4: Dbol 50mg ED
Weeks 1-12 Sustanon 750mg/week (shot MWF)
Weeks 1-11 Deca 350-500mg/week (2x per week is fine)
Caber and Aromisin/Adex/Letro on hand

PCT 3 weeks after last inject of sustanon.

-Riddy

MrWeapon · 11-14-2007, 09:01 AM

So..
For example: if you were doing 600mg of sustanon weekly.. you recommend injecting mon/wed/fri..

Does that mean you inject mon (200mg)
wed (200mg)
fri (200mg)

?

MetalMX · 11-14-2007, 09:01 AM

Thanks for the info Triddy... If it were me i's just keep it simple 500mg Test E and would have great gains from it thats what i plan on doing for my first cycle though.

MetalMX · 11-14-2007, 09:02 AM

Yer Weapon thats what he means...

MrWeapon · 11-14-2007, 09:08 AM

Awesome :)
Finally a sydney champion on here aswell.

MetalMX · 11-14-2007, 09:10 AM

The problem is he's uneducated also triddy in a few days ill be running salbutamol which is more effective then clen with less sides some ketotifen and T3 any tips for how i should use it together?

Ive done Clen and T4 cycles before but ive wasted my time with the T4 as T3 is the way to go and i felt the clen didnt work after a week most likely due to receptor down regulation the reason why im adding the ketotifen

MetalMX · 11-14-2007, 09:13 AM

haha champion thanks bro do you have msn messenger? if you do give me ur addy so i can add you. I'm interested in talking to some Sydney based muscle heads...

**roccodart440** · 11-14-2007, 09:49 AM

TRiddy: great advice on the original post.

Metalmx: Why do you **** around with clen much less thyroid hromone? ECA, nitor or trimspa x32 works on every client i've ever had use them. Diet man. That plus a general fat burner is plenty and it won't reak havok on your heart or thyoid.

Now on to some thyriod education: T3 is more harsh and potent than T4 but T4 can be just as effective. THe thing is thyroid hormone is something you should be messing around with unless....

A) you are on gear to prevent catabolism. T4 but especiall T3 will eat muscle like nothing else at BB doses.

B) You have a thyroid deficiency which is treated by T4 and not T3 and in that case you already have an issue. Have te doc bring you to normal.

C) YOu are actually competing in BB'ing.

Last your friend is an idiot.

MetalMX · 11-14-2007, 08:59 PM

Look theirs nothing wrong with using salbutamol... its a great drug can be cycled and provides no draw backs for myself personally and its more effective than clen. With T3 i know how to use it bro i'm not one to **** around with drugs that could permanently shut down my thyroid as for dosages i would use 75mcg MAX no higher with a very high protein diet including BCAA's.

Yes i do diet man year around! So don't think i just wanna eat burger and fries all day while popping fat burners because thats not the case.

Also i am interested in competing next year or the year after i will be for sure. I've talked to Phil from phil's fitness and bodybuilding here in Penrith Sydney. He's an Australian Pro and trains with Luke Wood he says i have a lot of potential and i could step on stage by next year around 95-100kgs with my height of 190cm and small joints it would look insane and win a show if my diet and training are on par... sorry to change the subject but just wanted to let you know

**Freak** · 11-14-2007, 10:34 PM

You are the one coming on here and asking questions about them. You are STILL asking about t4 even though you said you were going to the doctor.. You ask questions and then respond like you think you know what you are talking about.

Bottom line is you are too young to be thinking about anything other than supplements and food.

MrWeapon · 11-14-2007, 11:56 PM

Age does matter.. though if someone has their mind set to something and wants to try them, i'm sure they'll do it.
I don't think we can stop them.
So at least let's get him the best possible information he can get. Cause at least if he does try them he does what is meant to be done.

I'm no smart dude either.
That's why i love this site, cause it's so informative.

**Freak** · 11-15-2007, 01:10 AM

The thing you and many others fail to realize is nobody here is a physician or other healthcare prescriber so you have to do your own research (via books), then ask questions instead of blindly taking advice from strangers. Then you have your own knowledge and input from guys with experience, you can exchange ideas and see what will be best for you instead of saying, I've got ________ what's a good cycle..?

MrWeapon · 11-15-2007, 02:59 AM

Yeah you're right.
Well i know the basics.

But it's good to get different opinions before you start jabbing a cycle away, cause others have tried similar cycle's hence the reason i come online to see who has had experience with a certain cycle, n pro's n con's of it.

MetalMX · 11-15-2007, 04:52 AM

I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone that they shouldn't be on a cycle or they shouldn't start cycling if they are serious about what their doing, what they want to achieve and understand bodybuilding as a whole!!!

IMO in order to do a cycle you have to have your training, diet, supplementation and sleep in place and you must be consistent before hand if you intend on bringing anabolics to the mix, that's my theory.

Now i'm not saying my routine is perfect but its not **** either. Its in bloody place! All i have to do is adjust my diet slightly and then ill start using anabolics.

**Freak** · 11-15-2007, 11:54 AM

You won't learn your body and you will mess up your endocrine system so then if you ever go to a Dr. you will really have problems a DOCTOR will need to address. GOOD LUCK!

**rIPPDUP** · 11-15-2007, 12:00 PM

look mate, your ****ing testosterone levels at 18 are going to be through the roof. any person who says otherwise is a ****ing idiot. you don't need steroids at your age, we've all said wait till your 21 so your body reaches its natural cycle of testosterone and the levels of it stop fluxuating so damn much. dude, and as far as the thyroid problem, stop being such a bitch, my mother had a part of her thyroid removed and she still functions as if she still had the damn piece there. you seriously need a kick in the ass for being this rediculously dumb. here it is plain and simple:
**** CLEN, **** T4, **** DECA, **** SUS, **** TEST, **** TREN, **** WINNI, **** ANAVAR, **** DIANOBOL............JUST WORK OUT HARDER IDIOT! CHRIST YOUR 18. AND IF YOU TELL ANOTHER ****ING PERSON THEY ARE WRONG FOR TELLING YOU THE SAME INFO....THEN **** YOU TO.

**roccodart440** · 11-15-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rIPPDUP

look mate, your ****ing testosterone levels at 18 are going to be through the roof. any person who says otherwise is a ****ing idiot. you don't need steroids at your age, we've all said wait till your 21 so your body reaches its natural cycle of testosterone and the levels of it stop fluxuating so damn much. dude, and as far as the thyroid problem, stop being such a bitch, my mother had a part of her thyroid removed and she still functions as if she still had the damn piece there. you seriously need a kick in the ass for being this rediculously dumb. here it is plain and simple:
**** CLEN, **** T4, **** DECA, **** SUS, **** TEST, **** TREN, **** WINNI, **** ANAVAR, **** DIANOBOL............JUST WORK OUT HARDER IDIOT! CHRIST YOUR 18. AND IF YOU TELL ANOTHER ****ING PERSON THEY ARE WRONG FOR TELLING YOU THE SAME INFO....THEN **** YOU TO.

ripped up for president.....

**rIPPDUP** · 11-15-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roccodart440

ripped up for president.....

hahaha thanks rocco i share your rage on this subject

MetalMX · 11-15-2007, 06:43 PM

A kick in the ass? Train Harder? I DON'T THINK ANYONE TRAINS ****ING HARDER AND LONGER AND I DO... I TRAIN TILL PURE PHYSICAL EXHAUSTION DAY IN DAY OUT SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT ****!!!.

At 6"3 and 230lbs i think i must be doing something right!!! Now i know very well that at 18 i shouldn't be doing gear but how can i believe that when i see all these people my age some doing gear continuously for months!! at doses an IFBB pro would find disturbing and they are ****ing monsters and their fine... well for now anyway but all i want to do is a cycle with regular doses and proper pct. I've also spoken to people like IFBB pro luke wood. He started cycling WAY before the age of 18... he told me that i should use gear if i'm set on becoming something so i just don't know what to believe anymore.

I KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES OF USING AT MY AGE SO DON'T KEEP REPEATING THEM TO ME ****! BODYBUILDING IS ALL I HAVE MAN ITS MY ****ING LIFE RIGHT NOW... IF BODYBUILDING DIDN'T EXIST I DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT TO BE ALIVE ANYMORE!!!. I'M SICK OF WALKING INTO A GYM AND SEEING A MOTHER****ER THAT WAS A PUNY LITTLE STICK A FEW MONTHS AGO TURN INTO A TANK WHILE I WORK MY ASS OFF TO GET TO WHERE I AM!!! I'M SICK OF THAT!!! I know i need a few more years of being natural before i use anything and thats whats frustrating.

**TRiddy05** · 11-15-2007, 09:18 PM

Look bro... you are TOO YOUNG. You know that, we know that enough said. But if your dead set on running a cycle then **** it, go for it. Its not like your 15 or something. I wouldnt really be worried about your growth plates fusing early. You are 6'3'', how tall do you want to be. You may do irrepirable damage to your HPTA, but you've said that you have low test anyway and were considering medical treatment. So you really couldnt be too much worse off. I imagine your recovery will also suck ass because of your low endrogenous test production. All Im saying is that you know the consequences of what you are doing. Its a stupid choice but its one that you get to make. If you post on here that you are 18 and you want to do gear and ask for peoples advice they are going to tell you not to do it. So dont take offence if that happens. Better yet stopping asking people to validate your reason for using AAS at 18 and just do it if thats what you are set on doing. Just my 2cc. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

MetalMX · 11-16-2007, 02:15 AM

Good words bro... you seem to understand what im going through and the choices that are in front of me.

**rIPPDUP** · 11-16-2007, 06:08 AM

LOOK....you see those people but YOU aren't THEM. YOU make YOUR own choices in life. yeah good for them their on gear and making quick gains...but don't forget....everyone plateaus eventually. if you'd actually use your brain, you'd realize that what your doing now takes more balls and heart than any person on gear. it's harder to compete in bodybuilding naturally. look at derek farnsworth, he's an ifbb pro thats totally natural. there are plenty of people that compete naturallly and are totally happy with themselves and their physique. look at layne! we jump down your throat because you're trying to take the easy way out every ****ing time that something gets tough for you. maybe its just your maturity level, but honestly man it's about time you grow up.

**roccodart440** · 11-16-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMX

I DON'T THINK ANYONE TRAINS ****ING HARDER AND LONGER AND I DO... I TRAIN TILL PURE PHYSICAL EXHAUSTION DAY IN DAY OUT SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT ****!!!.

This may be a large part of your problem.

6'3" 230 isn't small but it isn't that big. It's tall.

**Freak** · 11-16-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMX

A kick in the ass? Train Harder? I DON'T THINK ANYONE TRAINS ****ING HARDER AND LONGER AND I DO... I TRAIN TILL PURE PHYSICAL EXHAUSTION DAY IN DAY OUT SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT ****!!!.

At 6"3 and 230lbs i think i must be doing something right!!! Now i know very well that at 18 i shouldn't be doing gear but how can i believe that when i see all these people my age some doing gear continuously for months!! at doses an IFBB pro would find disturbing and they are ****ing monsters and their fine... well for now anyway but all i want to do is a cycle with regular doses and proper pct. I've also spoken to people like IFBB pro luke wood. He started cycling WAY before the age of 18... he told me that i should use gear if i'm set on becoming something so i just don't know what to believe anymore.

I KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES OF USING AT MY AGE SO DON'T KEEP REPEATING THEM TO ME ****! BODYBUILDING IS ALL I HAVE MAN ITS MY ****ING LIFE RIGHT NOW... IF BODYBUILDING DIDN'T EXIST I DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT TO BE ALIVE ANYMORE!!!. I'M SICK OF WALKING INTO A GYM AND SEEING A MOTHER****ER THAT WAS A PUNY LITTLE STICK A FEW MONTHS AGO TURN INTO A TANK WHILE I WORK MY ASS OFF TO GET TO WHERE I AM!!! I'M SICK OF THAT!!! I know i need a few more years of being natural before i use anything and thats whats frustrating.

If you want instant results, quit right now. There is a result. Whether you are on gear or not you will not get quick results.

Initially you might see some results but you will quickly reach a plateau and be clueless on what to do because you don't know your body and failed to figure it out while you are natural.

Take guys like, Jay, Ronnie, etc... They have been in the sport 15+ years. This stuff doesn't happen overnight, by next month, or next year. Small improvements over time and staying consistent is what this sport is all about. Think of it as a really long marathon. There are ups and downs along the way but if you stay consistent and try your best you will reach the finish line.

MrWeapon · 11-17-2007, 10:42 PM

I'm with Freak on that.

MetalMX · 11-19-2007, 02:05 AM

Guys... the only reason im thinking about taking gear is because of my low testosterone levels and a whole range of problems with my body. Now you say train naturally. THATS FINE!!! IF I HAD NATURAL NORMAL LEVEL OF HORMONES IN MY BODY!!! BUT IM TRAINING WITH THE AMOUNTS OF TEST A CHICK WOULD HAVE!!!

The symptoms are undenyable: LOW sex drive, erections are ****, my hair if falling out, i cant even grow facial hair its just comes in these little ****ing patches, i feel like ****, i sleep a lot.

How am i suppose to live normally let alone try to become a bodybuilder with what im going through. Yer im still waiting to see the endo... all booked, ive called all the places i could find... their all booked till december.

**JakeVendetta** · 11-19-2007, 02:15 AM

Low test levels..... *hands MetalMX a mop* find your place ;-)

MetalMX · 11-19-2007, 02:29 AM

I just hope i can clean this **** up. Also I have low cholesterol which indicates that a person may have difficulty in producing steroid hormones.

Definitely the reason why my thyroid is slow as well... its all connected my testes aren't releasing enough (TRH) Thyroid Releasing Hormone and from reading about the subject TRH can go to the pituitary gland and cause it to release Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH), which then causes the thyroid gland to release thyroid hormone.