[soccer21]

ok, so don't get the impression that i'm some sort of health nut, but i am concerned with my health and fitness levels.

however, i've hit a plateau that i can't seem to bust right now. . .so i'm looking for an edge.

i only want to go on one or two cycles(that's what i say now, we'll see what happens though)

so i guess the point of this thread is to get opinions on what i should do, and what should i take afterwards to prevent losing the gains i made

i want to put on mass, but at the same time remain as athletic as possible(i play soccer)

any opinions would be greatly appreciated
please be mature

thank you

[TRiddy05]

Bro if you are 18, I would advise you not to do any cycle right now. Its not as bad an idea as if you were say 16, but I would strongly suggest that you wait till you are 21 or so. I dont know what your stats are but at 18 you are most likely not at your genetic potential and can probably break through your plataue with some changes to your training and diet. First how long have you been on your current training split? Personally I believe in changing it at least a couple of times a year. Your body gets used to a particular routine after about 2 months and your training can begin to plateau. Assuming that you are training correctly (you have a good mind muscle conection, you take sets to failure, etc.) then diet is probably the issue. For mass gaining you want to take in 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound and about 3 grams of carbs per pound. Carbs are great plataue breakers. Up your carbs and you will see it on the scale. Also whatever training you do for soccer is likely to be very catabolic. For a bodybuilder low intensity cardio is best. There are some who say that you shouldnt even do cardio if you are trying to gain mass although I am not of that opinion. Finally, if you decide to run a cycle anyway, a typical beginer cycle is 500mg/week of Test Enanthate for 10-12 weeks.
Weeks 1-12 Test E
Weeks 1-12 Arimidex .5 -1 mg ED
PCT Weeks 14-18
1 Clomid 100 Nolva 40 ED
2 Clomid 75 Nolva 40 ED
3 Clomid 50 Nolva 20 ED
4 Clomid 25 Nolva 20 ED
HCG 250IU 2X per week

Like I said you should not cycle yet but if you do I would run either a lot of arimidex or an average dose of letro throughout the cycle b/c high levels of estrogen cause fusing of growth plates, thus permanently leaving you at your current height. My advice is dont do it. Also if you want to be athletic, and soccer is your priority over bbing, realize that freaky big bodybuilders are not necessarily the picture of athleticism or impecible health. Good Luck

[lil_big_junior]

i doubt you hit plateu at 18 bro...keep natural & adjust your diet, supplements & training...

[Mygeeto]

you didnt hit plateu
in fact, your far from it.
eat more calories and train harder.
by creatine and use it.
you dont need steroids.

[soccer21]

Originally Posted by TRiddy05

Bro if you are 18, I would advise you not to do any cycle right now. Its not as bad an idea as if you were say 16, but I would strongly suggest that you wait till you are 21 or so. I dont know what your stats are but at 18 you are most likely not at your genetic potential and can probably break through your plataue with some changes to your training and diet. First how long have you been on your current training split? Personally I believe in changing it at least a couple of times a year. Your body gets used to a particular routine after about 2 months and your training can begin to plateau. Assuming that you are training correctly (you have a good mind muscle conection, you take sets to failure, etc.) then diet is probably the issue. For mass gaining you want to take in 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound and about 3 grams of carbs per pound. Carbs are great plataue breakers. Up your carbs and you will see it on the scale. Also whatever training you do for soccer is likely to be very catabolic. For a bodybuilder low intensity cardio is best. There are some who say that you shouldnt even do cardio if you are trying to gain mass although I am not of that opinion. Finally, if you decide to run a cycle anyway, a typical beginer cycle is 500mg/week of Test Enanthate for 10-12 weeks.
Weeks 1-12 Test E
Weeks 1-12 Arimidex .5 -1 mg ED
PCT Weeks 14-18
1 Clomid 100 Nolva 40 ED
2 Clomid 75 Nolva 40 ED
3 Clomid 50 Nolva 20 ED
4 Clomid 25 Nolva 20 ED
HCG 250IU 2X per week

Like I said you should not cycle yet but if you do I would run either a lot of arimidex or an average dose of letro throughout the cycle b/c high levels of estrogen cause fusing of growth plates, thus permanently leaving you at your current height. My advice is dont do it. Also if you want to be athletic, and soccer is your priority over bbing, realize that freaky big bodybuilders are not necessarily the picture of athleticism or impecible health. Good Luck

i've been working out for four years now, but three of those were just maitaining for soccer(and yes i know that my endurance training for soccer doesn't help me any--but i take a ton of glutamine to try and offset it)

i'm 18, 5'11", and i weight 180

i know quite a bit about training and such things, so i know exactly what you're talking about
diet is my problem--i'm in college, and sometimes i don't have time to eat a big meal

i have a very good mind/body connection, and i'm very good at listening to my body when i train

it's not that i'm not strong(i can bench 245 and squat 405), but i'm not real big. . .i don't want to become huge, as i have plans to try out for the Navy SEALs


and to the other posters, your age does not affect plateaus, that's why it's very important to switch up how you train every now and then

[Mygeeto]

im containing myself from completly flaming the living **** out of you and screaming my face off at your dip ****-ness.

have a nice day.

dont forget to die.

[Masko AA]

doing a cycle isnt gonna help you if your not eating right....your hitting a plataeu b/c your diet is ****ed up plane and simple. oh and COSIGN with mygeeto

[soccer21]

whatever people

i can't stand people's attitudes on sites like this

i said be mature
my diet is not ****ed up. . .i get what i need every day


and what do you mean by cosign with mygeeto

[rIPPDUP]

what's your diet like? breakdown of proteins, fats, and carbs? what's your training split like? are you allowing yourself recovery time? what supplements are you taking? there is so much more to getting big other than doing a cycle. and by the way...one cycle isn't going to do ****.

[lil_big_junior]

bro...bottom line is you need to make adjustments to your diet & up your calories to gain...trust me you haven't even come close to hitting a plateau, me of all ppl know's this as a fact...NO NEED FOR GEAR at 18, especially if you don't want to get too big as you said...

btw cosign means, strongly agree

[TRiddy05]

Im a bit confused here, perhaps I am the only one that sees it this way but to me plataues and genetic potential are two totally different things. Everyone that bodybuilds hit plataues, I do, 16 year olds do, Markus Ruhl, Branch Warren., 45 year olds all hit plataues. To me a plataue is when you are not getting stronger, your weight isnt going up, your not getting leaner, whatever, you are ceasing to move toward your goals. Generally speaking this means that you need to go back and reevaluate your training, diet, rest, supplements etc. It could be a sign that you have reached your genetic potential, but not necessarily. Your genetic potential is when you have put on as much muscle mass as your genetics will allow you to naturally. This is the reason that no matter how good your genetics or how perfect your diet and training are you will never look like Jay Cutler with out a boatload of pharmaceuticals in you. At 18 and with three years of training, it is unlikely that you have reached your genetic potential. That being said for some people, i do believe that 5'11" 180lbs could possibly your genetic potential. Particularly if you have a very light frame. Remember two people with the same height weight and bodyfat can look drastically different. Soccer you have to keep in mind that if your diet isnt right you are not going to gain anything but water weight from AAS. AAS creates a highly annabolic environment which helps you put on large amounts of muscle quickly provided your training and diet is in order. It does not put on LBM in and of itself. People misinterpret studies done on AIDS patients that say that AAS helps preserve LBM without exercise and believe that AAS will just make your muscles grow by themselves with out nutrients or stimulation. Try to tweak your diet. If you post your diet either in this thread or in the nutrition section I will be happy to try and help you with it as Im sure a lot of the other guys would. You dont have to eat big meals but you should try to get in six meals a day so your muscles have a steady supply of amino acids. Also amino acids before soccer will do more to prevent muscle catabolism than glutamine will. IMO glutamine is a waste. Good Luck

[Thomas_Rivera]

Age does affect plateues. An average 50 year old man who just starts bodybuilding will reach his plateu much sooner than an average sixteen year old because of the difference in metabolism, testosterone etc.

Male testosterone levels peak in the early 20's. So logic would say if your 18, you have at least 2 more years until your testosterone levels reach their peak.

[rIPPDUP]

read this article

What Is The Right Age To Start Using Steroids? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

[mm1snapper]

5'11"-180lbs lol... You can get way bigger natty... Listen to these guys man you have a long way to go before you need steroids. You can probally hit 220-230 before your body hits a natural platue. If you dont your seriously a complete idiot.

[TRiddy05]

Originally Posted by mm1snapper

5'11"-180lbs lol... You can get way bigger natty... Listen to these guys man you have a long way to go before you need steroids. You can probally hit 220-230 before your body hits a natural platue. If you dont your seriously a complete idiot.

I dont agree with that statement at all. There are very very few people who can naturally get to 230 at 5'11'' and single digit bf unless they have massive frames. Sure he could get to 300lbs probably technically speaking but it would be fat and water weight and not much more muscle than he would have at 200. Keep in mind that Arnold competed at 6'2'' 230-250lbs and Frank Zane competed at 5'9" 190-200 tops and both used steroids. And these guys werent even as lean as the guys today. So if you can get to 5'11'' 230 and lean natuarally once you start the gear you will be the single greatest body builder in history. Markus Ruhl and Ronnie Colemann will look like your little bitches.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by TRiddy05

I dont agree with that statement at all. There are very very few people who can naturally get to 230 at 5'11'' and single digit bf unless they have massive frames. Sure he could get to 300lbs probably technically speaking but it would be fat and water weight and not much more muscle than he would have at 200. Keep in mind that Arnold competed at 6'2'' 230-250lbs and Frank Zane competed at 5'9" 190-200 tops and both used steroids. And these guys werent even as lean as the guys today. So if you can get to 5'11'' 230 and lean natuarally once you start the gear you will be the single greatest body builder in history. Markus Ruhl and Ronnie Colemann will look like your little bitches.

He didn't really mention any specific bodyfat.

[lil_big_junior]

at 19 i was a natural 240-250lbder ripped at under 7% bf & that's at 5'8...so i don't know where you're getting that from triddy bro...& ronnie was around 250lbish natural before actually taking things seriously & hitting the stage pumped full of gear

[mm1snapper]

No i didnt mention a bf% And im 19, 6'0", and 210lbs with 12%bf lol so its gotta be possible. Plus im only lifted seriously for two years with no diet to work with.

[TRiddy05]

LBJ, you are an absolute genetic freak bro. I dont doubt that you weighed what you say you did but you are deffinetly the exception to the rule. As far as Coleman goes, who is to say when he started using gear. He played highschool football in Texas, and they like to start early down there. He also played college football. And was a powerlifter for quite a while. I cant find much info on his powerlifting but not all the powerlifting organizations are natty by any means. Most bios that I can find place him at 5'11'' 215 or so after college. And yes he did compete in some drug tested shows but all that proves is that he tested clean, not that he had never used gear up until that point. Not from any personal knowledge but from what Ive read, there are guys who will cycle with short esters or TNE up till a few weeks out. I made a bit of an over generalization but I still stand by the statement that for most people 5'11'' 230 and single digit bf is not achievable naturally.

[rIPPDUP]

i'm in the single digit bodyfat range and i'm natural bro. i maintain 9% yearly except when i'm cutting in which i can get down to 3-4% naturally so dont' make excuses man. anything can be done

[soccer21]

ok, i didn't mean plateau like can't get any bigger

but you know how like if you train for mass too long, you stop making gains?!. . . that's whay i meant

i really don't wanna go on juice though, so maybe i'll just wait it out

but i know a 18 year old and he's on juice--freakin huge guy

so idk
i just need some motivation every now and then

i need to watch some more ronnie coleman videos on youtube

[soccer21]

Originally Posted by rIPPDUP

i'm in the single digit bodyfat range and i'm natural bro. i maintain 9% yearly except when i'm cutting in which i can get down to 3-4% naturally so dont' make excuses man. anything can be done

i'm not making excuses

i maitain a 5% body fat throughout my whole soccer season

[Mygeeto]

Originally Posted by soccer21

ok, i didn't mean plateau like can't get any bigger
then what did you mean? why would you take or consider steroids if you didnt know what the true reason behind this platue was?

but you know how like if you train for mass too long, you stop making gains?!. . . that's whay i meant
your only lifting for soccer, right? that burns calories like a mother ****er.. calories are needed for muscle growth. if you dont get enough calories to support muscle growth, you wont grow..your probably burning more calories than your consuming

i really don't wanna go on juice though, so maybe i'll just wait it out

but i know a 18 year old and he's on juice--freakin huge guy
he's not on juice. you would seriously be suprised how big a person can get naturally with the right lifestyle, habbits and mind-set.

so idk
i just need some motivation every now and then

i need to watch some more ronnie coleman videos on youtube

and thats how baby dwarves are made.

[rIPPDUP]

your bud that's 18 and is on juice may or may not have some serious complications further down the road...like low testosterone, and sterility amongst others. thats worse case but i mean hey who'd want to risk it? the right choice here is to stay natural. if your having problems with motivation, maybe you should try finding a different training partner.

[soccer21]

Originally Posted by Mygeeto

and thats how baby dwarves are made.

no i'm not just training for soccer anymore

i'm one of the biggest strikers i know(not bragging)
and yes, he's on juice. . .said so himself, and i've seen the ****

[Beefcake]

Bottom line...wait until you're at least 21.

[soccer21]

k thnx


and plz don't get the idea that i'm some scrawny 18 year old noob that wants to trade in his balls for big biceps

[Beefcake]

I understand where you're coming from, but I've known people about your size before they started training hard and they got pretty brolic. Just because you're an ectomorph, doesn't mean that you can't be big. Look at Frank Zane for example.

[soccer21]

yep i love him

he's inspiration to me
i currently don't have a steady workout partner
and i know that hinders me

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by soccer21

no i'm not just training for soccer anymore

i'm one of the biggest strikers i know(not bragging)
and yes, he's on juice. . .said so himself, and i've seen the ****

I just read this ****, why the **** would your fellow striker be on a cycle in season...its so ****ing stupid. Do you understand that IN SEASON, for me Pre season you lose about 10 lbs of just water...not to mention if you're going to school and playing you have no time at all to lift weights to even gain any mass. You are breaking your muscle fibers down SO much just alone in preseason, and typical seasons normally last 3-4 months with playoffs. I didnt read the last couple pages just jumped right into this to prove this point. You hit a plateu because you aren't eating right, and it could be tough for you because you are IN season, it gets tough. So when you say you get all you need, do you REALLY know what you need day to date, because in season is different from out of season. Strikers need to be agile as possible, and your rigth you dont want to get too big. Thats a good thing, but 18 is way too young, plus with everything else going on in your life its not the right time at all. You need to get a solid base down, meaning use your in season to cut, out of season to bulk. Prioritize yourself so that you can maintain a constant state to build, once again, your base on. Once you put 5 solid years into the gym, give or take, and get your diet right to actually know what a true plateu may be, then after doing some careful research do what you need to do with gear. But wait bud...Just my two cents from a fellow NCAA college soccer player.