Members
 Register


Rules | Articles | Arcade | Members List

 
Go Back   Bodybuilding Dungeon > Bodybuilding > Steroids
 

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Low dose cycles--Truth and myth
Old 05-07-2005, 04:28 PM   #1
Johnny Bravo
IFBB Lightweight
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 1,762
Rep Power: 79Johnny Bravo is a name known to allJohnny Bravo is a name known to all

Johnny Bravo is offline
  Reply With Quote

Low dose cycles--Truth and myth.

If you've read some of my posts on other boards, you probably already have seen that I advocate suggesting low doses for beginners . Why jump into 600mg per week of test as a first or second cycle when it is highly likely you will get great gains using 200-300mg (in initial cycles)?

I keep seeing people write that 200mg of testosterone per week does nothing more than shut down a man's natural test production and bring him near "normal levels"--this is not quite correct (part of the statement is correct part of it is not). This incorrect statement has endured probably because someone wrote down thier idea/theory of what happens in the body, it sounded good, and other people repeated it. But, it is not correct. Yes, 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone will shut down natural test production, BUT the amount of 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone is more than twice the "normal levels" of test in the body of a healthy non-steroid using male. Therefore, 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone per week is far more than enough to grow on.

(I explain more below)

I was paranoid about side effects of testosterone on a normally functioning body, so I had my blood levels checked while on 200-250mg per week. The results of the tests indicated that the amount of testosterone in my blood was more than twice the high end of the normal range (The normal free testosterone range is 50.0-210.0 pg/ml*. My levels were found to be near 550 pg/ml). I also talked to my doctor and UPJOHN nurses a lot about using testosterone at these doses.[/b] Here's a brief bit of what I've learned from my doctor, the UPJOHN nursing staff (UPJOHN was the original manufacturer of Depo-testosterone a.k.a Testosterone Cypionate. The rights of Depo-testosterone was sold to PFIZER which now produces it under the name PHARMACIA), and professional medical documents:

*--NOTE: pg/ml is the correct unit notation.

Using a long acting ester testosterone (CYP and ENAN) does not mimic the normally functioning male body's circadian rhythm (daily rise and fall of testosterone). Testosterone, in a normally functioning body, does not explode up to high levels then gradually fall over a 1-2 week period as it does when injecting a testosterone such as CYP or ENAN. On the contrary, the body produces a small amount each day which is far below 200mg (It's around 10mg). That small amount is concentrated at the beginning of the day and then falls low by the end of the day. This process repeats itself every day and by the end of two weeks, a normally functioning body produces approximately 140mg of testosterone (appx. 70mg per week).

The use of long acting esters are in theory supposed to slowly release the testosterone over a two week period, but this is not quite what happens. To keep it simple, the delay of the esters actually allows large amounts of testosterone to build up--especially if you are taking 200mg every week as opposed to once every two weeks (biweekly) which is what the dose is supposed to be. (I'm simplifying here). Remember the "normally functioning" male produces only (appx.) 70mg per week (=140mg per two weeks). The dose doctors are recommended to perscribe is 200mg every 2 weeks (biweekly), but they tend to give 200mg every week.

So, it is fallacious reasoning to compare the TOTAL amount of testosterone produced in daily spurts in a normally functioning body over a 2 week period to the same amount of testosterone injected in one shot at the beginning of a week and reshot every week (before the previous week's dose is used up). The latter case (injections once per week) results in an overlap and build up of dose which causes the levels of testosterone to be HIGHER than normal. (Remember the shots should actually be 200mg every TWO weeks--not every week). These excess levels of testosterone are sufficient to build lean body mass faster than the "normally functioning" male.

In other words: addding up what the average male body produces per week then comparing that to the amount that is shot every week is like comparing apples to oranges. There is a whole diferent set of advantageous reactions happening in the body when it is given a full
2-week load (200mg) at the beginning of a week as opposed to getting naturally occuring, small, daily spurts of appx 10mg over the same period of time (2 weeks).

This is why a low dose cycle can yeild REASONABLE gains. Understand, I'm not talking mega-huge-fast gains. I'm talking noticably-faster-than-normal gains, which when coupled with a strict diet, sufficient rest and an excellent bodybuilding work ethic, can yeild large, solid gains (especially early in a person's cycle experience).

From Beyondmass.com

http://www.beyondmass.com/forums/sho...threadid=13381
__________________
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Johnny Bravo Find More Posts by Johnny Bravo
 
 
Old 05-07-2005, 04:32 PM   #2
bodydropped
NPC Super Heavyweight

 
bodydropped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Age: 22
Posts: 638
Rep Power: 71bodydropped is a name known to allbodydropped is a name known to all

bodydropped is offline
  Reply With Quote

sweet, thanks for the info
__________________
Bryan
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to bodydropped Find More Posts by bodydropped
 
 
Old 05-07-2005, 04:41 PM   #3
GoingBiG
NPC Heavyweight

 
GoingBiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 410
Rep Power: 32GoingBiG is a glorious beacon of light

GoingBiG is offline
  Reply With Quote

The only thing i don't like about it is that there are no sources... That's a shame...
But i like the message.. On some boards i have seen people using 1.5-2 grams of test each week.. The gains are good but the crash is bigger.. Doing such doses really supress the HPTA... So keep in touch with your HPTA...
__________________

My Pictures
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to GoingBiG Find More Posts by GoingBiG
 
 
Old 05-07-2005, 04:52 PM   #4
Tech
Team X
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,711
Rep Power: 0Tech is a name known to allTech is a name known to all

Tech is offline
  Reply With Quote

interesting read
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Find More Posts by Tech
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 12:43 AM   #5
Flex
Banned

 
Flex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: United States
Age: 22
Posts: 2,643
Rep Power: 0Flex is a name known to allFlex is a name known to all

Flex is offline
  Reply With Quote

who the hell believes that humans produce 200 mg of test each week.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Visit Flex's homepage! Find More Posts by Flex
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 02:36 AM   #6
Johnny Bravo
IFBB Lightweight
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 1,762
Rep Power: 79Johnny Bravo is a name known to allJohnny Bravo is a name known to all

Johnny Bravo is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
who the hell believes that humans produce 200 mg of test each week.
Probably the same guys who think that high reps are gonna get u cut and shredded.
__________________
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Johnny Bravo Find More Posts by Johnny Bravo
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 04:58 AM   #7
GoingBiG
NPC Heavyweight

 
GoingBiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 410
Rep Power: 32GoingBiG is a glorious beacon of light

GoingBiG is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex
who the hell believes that humans produce 200 mg of test each week.
If you don't believe it then you bring up something better...
__________________

My Pictures
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to GoingBiG Find More Posts by GoingBiG
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 07:12 AM   #8
Six
NPC Lightweight

 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: behind PC
Age: 21
Posts: 138
Rep Power: 13Six has a spectacular aura about

Six is offline
  Reply With Quote

just curious: what do you think of this oral cycle to begin with?

day 1-10 : 30 mg Dianabol / day, 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

day 11-20 : 20 mg Dianabol/ day, 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

day 21-28 : 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

your opinion of gains and risks? ty
__________________
No Pain, No ...
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Six Find More Posts by Six
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 07:20 AM   #9
Johnny Bravo
IFBB Lightweight
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 1,762
Rep Power: 79Johnny Bravo is a name known to allJohnny Bravo is a name known to all

Johnny Bravo is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
just curious: what do you think of this oral cycle to begin with?

day 1-10 : 30 mg Dianabol / day, 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

day 11-20 : 20 mg Dianabol/ day, 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

day 21-28 : 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

your opinion of gains and risks? ty

Orals only cycles are generally a bad idea, as you tend to lose almost all of your gains. You gain alot but it's mostly water, and as soon as you go off, the water will go away and so will your gains.
And orals are more harsh on your liver, than injectables are.

Why do you want to go for an oral cycle anyways, bro?:)
(if you say you are afraid of needles, then I'm gonna ban you.. oh wait I'm not a mod. )
__________________
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Johnny Bravo Find More Posts by Johnny Bravo
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 07:29 AM   #10
Six
NPC Lightweight

 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: behind PC
Age: 21
Posts: 138
Rep Power: 13Six has a spectacular aura about

Six is offline
  Reply With Quote

hehe

no, a friend in the gym has just started this cycle
and another one only takes proviron ??
is it the same? lose a lot after gain a lot??

ty x
__________________
No Pain, No ...
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Six Find More Posts by Six
 
 
Old 05-08-2005, 10:40 AM   #11
GoingBiG
NPC Heavyweight

 
GoingBiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 410
Rep Power: 32GoingBiG is a glorious beacon of light

GoingBiG is offline
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
just curious: what do you think of this oral cycle to begin with?

day 1-10 : 30 mg Dianabol / day, 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

day 11-20 : 20 mg Dianabol/ day, 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

day 21-28 : 10 mg Nolvadex 2x/day

your opinion of gains and risks? ty
Johnny is right... Most people are loosing their gains after dianabol only cycles... Injectable roids like test or primo with a proper postcycle is a good first cycle IMO.

Quote:
hehe

no, a friend in the gym has just started this cycle
and another one only takes proviron ??
is it the same? lose a lot after gain a lot??
Proviron as a cycle? Not really.. I haven't read a lot about proviron... But it isn't an AAS, it's an anti-estrogen... It lowers the gains when used with AAS, cause it bind to the androgen receptors
__________________

My Pictures
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to GoingBiG Find More Posts by GoingBiG
 
 
 

Reply

« Hgh in adults, medical data | bigger arms without S? »

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.