[Hi-Caliber]

It seems that somehow some of the boards that aren't as "veteran-oriented" are lacking info about a non-surgical treatment for those who have gyno issues and don't wanna shell out the cash for surgery. Know ahead of time that you'll have to get a few bottles, but hey, spending $100-200 on some Raloxifene beats the heck outta $3k on surgery (that's for a cheapo surgeon and a chest that looks almost worse than the gyno).

Here's a copy/paste from a guy's thread on another board. I prefer a much higher dosage with an all-out attack on the gyno. This guy's dosages will leave most disappointed once treatment is stopped, but it worked for him.:

Week 1: 5 caps RXT/120mg Ralox (Started to feel the onset of depression, extremely moody, sex drive through the roof.. we're talking erections from bumpy car rides here)
Weeks 2-3: 4 caps RXT/60mg Ralox (No more depression, only slight mood swings)
Weeks 4-5: 3 caps RXT/60mg Ralox
Week 6: 2caps RXT/60mg Ralox
I'm currently on week 6, and the lump is entirely gone.

Here's background info:

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMS)

EVISTA® (raloxifene hydrochloride) is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that belongs to the benzothiophene class of compounds.

The chemical designation is methanone, [6-hydroxy-2-(4-hydroxyphenyl)benzo[ b]thien-3-yl]-[ 4-[ 2-(1-piperidinyl) ethoxy] phenyl]-, hydrochloride. Raloxifene hydrochloride (HCl) has the empirical formula C28H27NO4S • HCl, which corresponds to a molecular weight of 510.05. Raloxifene HCl is an off-white to pale-yellow solid that is very slightly soluble in water. Raloxifene (Evista) has the ability to bind to and activate the estrogen receptor while exhibiting tissue-specific effects distinct from estradiol. As a result, raloxifene is the first of a benzothiophene series of antiestrogens to be labeled a SERM.

Raloxifene was specifically developed to maintain beneficial estrogenic activity on bone and lipids and antiestrogenic activity on endometrial and breast tissue. In December 1997, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) labeled raloxifene for the prevention of osteoporosis.

Although the exact mechanism of action of raloxifene and other similar compounds has not yet been determined, it has been hypothesized that these agents work by inducing conformational changes in the estrogen receptor, resulting in differential expression of specific estrogen-regulated genes in different tissues. Activation of the estrogen receptor by these compounds may involve multiple molecular pathways that may result in gene expression of ligand-, tissue- and/or gene-specific receptors.

Because SERMs are capable of inducing specific changes in the estrogen receptor, it is not surprising that they may mediate specific pharmacologic activity through their unique agonist or antagonist properties. For example, the agonistic properties of raloxifene on bone tissue were recently demonstrated by the specific activation of the human transforming growth factor-b3 gene, which is an important regulator of bone remodeling.

Raloxifene also appears to have a favorable effect on lipid parameters in postmenopausal women. In the published European trial,13 treatment with raloxifene in a dosage of 30, 60 or 150 mg per day resulted in significant decreases in the serum concentrations of total and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol over a 24-month period (P < 0.05 versus placebo). These decreases were evident during the first three months of therapy and were maintained thereafter. Notably, none of the treatment groups showed any changes in serum concentrations of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and triglycerides.

So you see:
BOTH Raloxifene and Tamoxifen are highly effective, with Raloxifene being definitively more effective. But both have been proven to work. So don't listen to your wanna-be internet gurus who say there's no way to reduce existing gyno. Nolva has been used for this in studies for years, and now we have an even stronger ally.

Here is a study regarding the effects of Raloxifene compared to Tamoxifen on gyno:

1: J Pediatr. 2004 Jul;145(1):71-6. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:

* J Pediatr. 2005 Apr;146(4):576; author reply 576-7.
* J Pediatr. 2005 Apr;146(4):576; author reply 576-7.

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

slawrence@cheo.on.ca

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And for the record, I have a workout partner who is currently treating his gyno with 160mg/day (2ml 2x/day) and having obvious results in just two weeks.

[compulut]

Out of curiosity, would you recommed this product over Nolvadex for PCT as well, or strictly for the purpose of gyno reversal.

Additionally, did you or your training partner stop or decrease the substance(s) that was/were leading to the gyno during the curative treatment, or continue on with cycle while undergoing treatment.

And finally, you mentioned near the top, that you would prefer a much higher dosage than the protocol listed. Would you care to shre what you would have in mind, since you state that most will be left disappointed with this one?

BTW - thanks for the info. Should the need arise, it could be very useful.

[Hi-Caliber]

Raloxifene is preferred only to address gyno. It has very minimal HPTA upregulating properties.

My training partner actually maintained his AAS protocol. If it had been me, I would also, but I would count on getting better results while off cycle and stable. Just something about that makes more sense to me. BUT most of the customers I've seen who use it remain on and see great results.

I would do something like this:
wk1: 200mgRaloxifene/day
wk2: 180mgRaloxifene/day
wk3: 180mgRaloxifene/day
wk4: 160mgRaloxifene/day
wk5: 120mgRaloxifene/day
wk6: 80mgRaloxifene/day
wk7: 40mgRaloxifene/day
wk8: 40mgRaloxifene/day

[roccodart440]

DO you prefer nolvadrex for PCT? clomid or a combo of the two?

[Hi-Caliber]

See my post above.

Originally Posted by Hi-Caliber

Raloxifene is preferred only to address gyno. It has very minimal HPTA upregulating properties.

Since PCT isn't about gyno prevention, raloxifene is not preferred for PCT. PCT is about upregulating HPTA function, and tamoxifen is better than raloxifene for that. Raloxifene is only for gyno.

[roccodart440]

YOu didn't answer my question. WHat is your preffered PCT drug(s) of choice?

[Hi-Caliber]

LOL my bad man. I prefer to take advantage of a few of the available compounds. My PCT usually looks very much like this:

Days 1-3: Clomiphene 100mg/day
After that I go:
Toremifene wks 1-4 90/90/60/30
Exemestane wks 1-4 10/10/5

My reason for this is:
- Despite what the wannabe 'net gurus say, Clomiphene is proven to work. Period. It's my nuts, and I'mma take care of them. But only the Clomiphene for the first few days then stop before it increases SHBG too much.
- Toremifene is showing enough promise to trust it for the long haul to work and avoid sides.
(If toremifene is unavailable, I use tamoxifen.)
- Exemestane has been shown to free bound androgens in the system. In other words, the little bit of test that I do have will be free instead of bound. My blood work has proven this.

[lil_big_junior]

yeah i choose clomid too OR both clo & nol

[roccodart440]

Originally Posted by Hi-Caliber

LOL my bad man. I prefer to take advantage of a few of the available compounds. My PCT usually looks very much like this:

Days 1-3: Clomiphene 100mg/day
After that I go:
Toremifene wks 1-4 90/90/60/30
Exemestane wks 1-4 10/10/5

My reason for this is:
- Despite what the wannabe 'net gurus say, Clomiphene is proven to work. Period. It's my nuts, and I'mma take care of them. But only the Clomiphene for the first few days then stop before it increases SHBG too much.
- Toremifene is showing enough promise to trust it for the long haul to work and avoid sides.
(If toremifene is unavailable, I use tamoxifen.)
- Exemestane has been shown to free bound androgens in the system. In other words, the little bit of test that I do have will be free instead of bound. My blood work has proven this.

Exemestane is aromasin right?

What is the trade name for toremifene?

[stevesliwa]

Originally Posted by roccodart440

Exemestane is aromasin right?

What is the trade name for toremifene?

Fareston.

[Tony Bologna]

Fareston and Aromasin is the end all be all for pct it's a new world brothers...