UFc 104 *Spoilers eventually*

**Thomas_Rivera** · 10-22-2009, 01:20 AM

My preliminary predictions.

I want Shogun over Lyoto
Rothwell over Valasquez
Neer over Tibau via ko or sub
LEaning toward Fisher over Stevenson
Johnson over Yoshida
Bader over Shafer
Hardonk over Barry

For the undercard
Jorge and Kyle I go to win their fights, only ones on the undercard I know.

Im still a big pride fan and I gotta go with Shogun out of fandom. I think Lyoto has never fought such an accomplished striker as Shogun even though in the UFC countdown video he claims he has. Thiago Silva is the only viable knockout artist on the list of people that he's beaten. Shogun has put away top level strikers.

I go with Rothwell because of the experience factor, the fact that Rothwell is a true heavyweight that cuts down from 280, his KO ability and coming out of militech he has to have a great wrestling background that I think would match Cain's tendancy to shoot in after being rocked (which is pretty much every wrestlers habit)

Famine · 10-24-2009, 03:59 PM

I like Shogun better than the Dragon, but Shogun has not been impressing my lately, so I think the Dragon is going to take it. If I'm wrong, I'll do a set of bench.

**Freak** · 10-24-2009, 05:35 PM

Taking Shogun is risky just because of his past knee injuries. Yeah he looked good against Chuck, I agree. I hope he comes in like his old Pride days.

Rothwell fight will be good. He always throws me off though just looking at him.

I love all Neer fights.

Johnson vs Yoshida fight. I'd have to go Johnson just because he's such a natural athlete and they typically find ways to win.

**Thomas_Rivera** · 10-25-2009, 01:44 AM

Lyoto winning was ****ing bull****, he got dominated through the ****ing match. Rua picked him apart.

Famine · 10-25-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Lyoto winning was ****ing bull****, he got dominated through the ****ing match. Rua picked him apart.

Agree 100%!!! Even though I thougth ahead of time that Lyoto would win, I was rooting for Rua. That score at the end of total BS. I love the way Joe Rogan calls that crap out. He gave more time to Rua than Lyoto, and called for a rematch.

So that, coupled with the last 2 second loss of MSU really makes this a crappy night for me.

**Thomas_Rivera** · 10-25-2009, 02:05 AM

Rogan was saying Shoguns name all night. Shogun lit up Machida, nulified all his leg trips (I guess the judges couldn't tell that with their heads so far up their asses), he used pure muay thai and nullified any advantage Machida has on guys that are heavy on their front leg. HE countered almost all the shots attemtped on him and landed a flying knee ala Sagat from Street Fighter.

Shogun is the UFC LHW champ - Page 4 - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Kevsworld · 10-25-2009, 08:42 AM

Shogun was clearly robbed. Not a bad fight, but he clearly won every round.

**Medic08** · 10-25-2009, 10:43 AM

That was the worst call in MMA history, my jaw literally dropped when I heard Machida's name. I was stareing at Shogun to watch his hand get raised and they call MAchida?!?!? WTF, I never thought I would say this about UFC, but someone had to of paid that fight off. That fight wasn't even CLOSE in my opinion. Shogun was the clear victor. Machida's face and ribs tell the story of the fight. Bull S hit!

GENOMYX · 10-25-2009, 09:31 PM

I dont think it was paid off but poor decision making on behalf of the judges. The judges know that shogun was the better fighter last night but like any sport its true you really have to beat the champ to become the champ. No doubt I think Shogun hands down deserved to win. I was shocked my self but if you watched the fight even though Shogun delivered the most damage and destroyed Machidas legs it really was a 1 for 1 match. For every hit machida delivered Shogun returned. Shogun was clearly a counter striker which was very effective ecspecialy in the leg strikes. But there was no gorund work, and neither one of them were hurt badly enough to turn the fight so thats why its not a ubelievable outcome but very disapointing.

**Thomas_Rivera** · 10-25-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GENOMYX

I dont think it was paid off but poor decision making on behalf of the judges. The judges know that shogun was the better fighter last night but like any sport its true you really have to beat the champ to become the champ. No doubt I think Shogun hands down deserved to win. I was shocked my self but if you watched the fight even though Shogun delivered the most damage and destroyed Machidas legs it really was a 1 for 1 match. For every hit machida delivered Shogun returned. Shogun was clearly a counter striker which was very effective ecspecialy in the leg strikes. But there was no gorund work, and neither one of them were hurt badly enough to turn the fight so thats why its not a ubelievable outcome but very disapointing.

I hate the fact that judges automatically give favor to the champ, every match should be about defending that title and earning it.

The compubox scores for the fight were a whole different story, Shogun landed twice as many shots as lyoto managed to get off.

Kevsworld · 10-25-2009, 11:00 PM

I don't mind favoring the champ--if it close. But I don't think it was even close--Shogun clearly dominated.

**islander** · 10-26-2009, 03:28 AM

I never believed ufc was fixed but that was ****ed.

**Thomas_Rivera** · 10-26-2009, 10:36 AM

How I see it.

**mindstar** · 10-26-2009, 10:50 AM

ok, late to the party, but I just watched the fight.

Bad decision. I feel bad for Shogun he was absolutely robbed.

GENOMYX · 10-26-2009, 11:54 AM

yeah you can tell on his face at the end how hurt he was. I feel really bad for the guy to. You go months training day and night and give one of the best performances since his pride days just to get robbed.

**islander** · 10-26-2009, 02:14 PM

He was crying in the locker room they showed. But rather then look at Rua look at how Machida responded: the fight was over at the bell and Rua threw up his hands, Machida didnt until he saw Rua had thrown up his, I know his legs were beat but his arms wernt. I think its a instinct when that last bell goes that if a person thinks he won the fight he just throws up his arm or arms in victory. And when Machida was announced the winner no emotion crossed his face, after the last outpouring of emotion when he won the belt you think he would have something he just looked vacant like he knew he wasnt the true winner and he didnt want to say anything after saying how he was leaning english so he could talk but he didnt even want anything translated.

Famine · 10-27-2009, 07:49 PM

According to UFC.com, it looks like they will be fighting again real soon. If Dana was hellbent on a rematch, you know even he thought it was BS. Problem is, a rematch only gives the Dragon more time to make changes to his gameplan.

**Thomas_Rivera** · 10-27-2009, 08:34 PM

What changes can he make? Effectively Shogun is a much better striker. I think in the "Rock scissor papers" realm of MMA to beat shogun who effectively used Muay thai and who is also a BJJ black belt, Lyoto is going to be hardpressed to change his game plan in a few months.

Shogun had a lot of intricacies in his gameplan, during the fight periodically you can see him slam the leg of his that was far back out away from Lyoto to nullify that trip that he likes to employ.

Lyoto has to worry about the fact that even if he does manage to do something about the leg kicks, Shogun can and will, feint a takedown, move into the clinch, strike him and move out.

Lyoto has never faced anyone with the caliber of experience that Shogun has, a fully healed shogun is a very dangerous Shogun and he gave glimpses of that, like when he did the flying knee to the body.

Famine · 10-28-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

What changes can he make? Effectively Shogun is a much better striker. I think in the "Rock scissor papers" realm of MMA to beat shogun who effectively used Muay thai and who is also a BJJ black belt, Lyoto is going to be hardpressed to change his game plan in a few months.

Shogun had a lot of intricacies in his gameplan, during the fight periodically you can see him slam the leg of his that was far back out away from Lyoto to nullify that trip that he likes to employ.

Lyoto has to worry about the fact that even if he does manage to do something about the leg kicks, Shogun can and will, feint a takedown, move into the clinch, strike him and move out.

Lyoto has never faced anyone with the caliber of experience that Shogun has, a fully healed shogun is a very dangerous Shogun and he gave glimpses of that, like when he did the flying knee to the body.

What I saw was a great performance from Shogun, and a typical performance from Lyoto. By typical, I mean his typical lack of center control and waiting for a counter oppertunity. In other words, not very aggressive. I'm saying if, and that's a big IF, Lyoto was to study the fight, and find a way to be more aggressive, then he might get a real win. But I'm just playing devil's advocate. I think in a rematch, Shogun will win, AGAIN.