Ken Shamrock; What do you think?

onebigeric · 03-01-2006, 03:41 AM

Pumba's excellent comment on the Randy Couture's retirement thread started the gears rolling for me concerning this one. Namely that I've been a hardcore Ken Shamrock fan since I first saw him compete in Pancrase, and I still am today. Although his recent streak has brought the question to mind; When should a legend call it good?
When Shamrock came back around again in Pride(circa 2000) I was extremely excited. Granted, a win over Alexander Otsuka could be derided, but it was a great fight. What's followed is a couple of good wins-Adkins and Kimo-and some really high-label losses-Frye, TITO, Franklin, Sakuraba(goon decision though). I have not lost any respect for Shamrock, but it has been sad for me to see him racking up numbers in the loss(heavy loss) category. His face was ridiculous after his fight with Ortiz; Sherdog.com has some brutal shots of it. The call in his HIGHLY anticipated bout with Sakuraba was stupid, but a decision is just that, no matter how off it may seem. His loss to Rich Franklin was a surprise to me in a big way(I thought he had him with his leg lock at under 2 min in the first round), although the great man Franklin is, coupled with the mutual respect the two men share seemed to lessen the blow on that one. Now with his match signed with Tito at the conclusion of the Ultimate Fighter 3, the questions can't help but be there:
What is Shamrock still trying to prove?
Has his return helped him, or tarnished his already amazing legacy?
I'd like to get the feelers out and hear your opinions on this, gentleman. Is Shamrock a has-been, or even a never was? Or is he just a grizzled veteran who doesn't know when his time has passed? Blast away.

Nothin' but a peanut!! · 03-01-2006, 05:08 AM

only seen him in old school WWF in a lions ball den match with steve blackman
taht was hardcore back in the day go nowhere near that now
ive never seen him since he left wrestling man

chesticles · 03-01-2006, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebigeric

Has his return helped him, or tarnished his already amazing legacy?

Tarnished for sure man. WWE was going to offer him a contract before he got beaten six ways of sunday by ortiz. I think he shouldn't of come back, the guy is awesome but that's just my opinion.

canablistic_Turnip · 03-01-2006, 09:18 AM

For you onebigeric

Shamrok little Bro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw4JY...earch=Shamrock

and the best of Ken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NwBt...ken%20Shamrock

fallen · 03-01-2006, 11:30 AM

Ken Shamrock was a great fighter and will be in the hall of fame some day, but at the same time he needs to hang it up. The fight against Tito shouldn't happen, Tito is in to good of shape and to young for him imo. I think all he is doing is messing with his legancy. Yes UFC is more popular now, but with all the new fans watching now they don't know how great hw was. My wife just started watching and she asked me why is that old guy fighting he's gonna get hurt.

onebigeric · 03-01-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canablistic_Turnip

For you onebigeric

Shamrok little Bro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw4JY...earch=Shamrock

and the best of Ken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NwBt...ken%20Shamrock

Turnip, "you're the man" isn't nearly a strong enough thanks for those vids. Awesome work! My two favorite Frank Shamrock fights of all time right there, namely those against Rutten and Ortiz.
Capturing one of Ken's finest moments was a work of art as well; I never get tired of seeing him cinch in that standing guillotine on Severn. Once again, massive thanks.

onebigeric · 03-01-2006, 03:19 PM

Thank you for the excellent posts everyone. Keep 'em rolling!

canablistic_Turnip · 03-02-2006, 12:00 AM

^^ Any time onebigeric I always a grappling fan myself but also like standup fighting as well.

thedon · 03-02-2006, 12:05 AM

ken shamrock is one of my favourite fighters but i think he was done awhile ago...it should be interesting to see him and ortiz as coachs in the ultimate fighter 3

onebigeric · 03-02-2006, 03:13 AM

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing that as well, don. YouTube has the vid of their press conference before their fight at UFC 40; Tito pushed his buttons HARD, and was immensely disrespectful to Ken(but yeah, I laughed a little bit). Although it's Ortiz, the 'Huntington Beach Bad Boy', so it was definitely expected. Sherdog.com also has an interview vid with Ken concerning TUF3; it's worth checking out for his take on the upcoming season.

PUMBA · 03-02-2006, 04:29 AM

It take enomous pride in ones self to step in the ring and it is hard to just switch it off and know your past your prime (I still battle the urges these days as did the guy that trained me).

IMHO Ken Shamrock served his purpose and that was to be one of the marquee fighters to kick off UFC along with Gracie (who also hung too long). Everyone wanted to see those two square up all the others were considered lambs being taken to thee slaughter.

He is not fighting out of hunger anymore, against Ortiz and Frye he fought with his heart and not his brain and you can't do that at the extreme upper level NHB and especially against the calibre of fighters he has lost to.

I believe he is too far past his prime to compete against the new breed of young hungry fighters, his chin is now questionable.

I liken him to my other all-time favorites, Evander Holyfield and Suger Ray Leonard, he would prefer to be carried out on his shield instead of walking away.

Roy Jones,Ali, Tyson, Fenech, Hearns etc etc etc.....all hung on too long to former glory.
Gee the only one of reasant times that I've seen get out at the right time Hagler and it took one hell of a fighter to show him the door.

onebigeric · 03-02-2006, 04:54 PM

Thank you for the post, Pumba; I definitely agree. His knee has been bad for years, his TKO roll is getting higher, and the caliber of fighters he's going up against have closed his technical edge gap with pure youth and testosterone. There's only so much you can do after a point; I just hope he sees that before the masses really begin to deride his immense contributions to the world of MMA.

Void · 04-05-2006, 06:49 AM

I really admire Ken as a fighter, I think hes got awesome heart. But..I think his time is done in real fighting.

Tito (probably my fav fighter) messed him up the first time, and when they fight again at the end of that show...I think hes still gonna fuck Ken up hard :/