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Old 09-23-2009, 01:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Anyone seen the Michael Moore film on health care?

Where the 9-11 volonteers can't get health care after getting sick from the debris. How France has free health care and Cuba had the same medication we charge people 120.00 for and they sold it for .05 cents lol.

If a 3rd world country can afford health care for people why can't our country?

Any thoughts?
 



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Old 09-23-2009, 04:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ye i saw it. It's brilliant and really highlights the barbarism of "mordern" society. The truth is, USA CAN afford to give health care to everyone, they simply choose not to. Why? Because it makes some people very rich. Healthcare is something we NEED and so therefore we will dig into our savings, kids' college funds etc to make sure we are healthy. They make profit because it is our necessity
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think something to consider with health care is the much lower taxes that we pay in comparison to most countries in europe.

And about the medicine, what medicine was it? Was it being produced by the pharmacy or the government, was it human grade at that low of a price?
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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We may pay lower taxes than some places but after watching the movie I saw how much more their country does for their people.

5-6 weeks vacation a year, free health care, in home doctor visits, they send a nanny, the government, to help you when you have a new kid 2 days a week wtf lol.

I'd pay 10% more taxes if my family and I got free health care.

The medicine was an inhaler, for breathing problems human grade. The movie says it cost 120.00 in the US and they had it for under one dollar.

It's sad but I have to agree, it seems like our country has been taken over by elitists and big businesses. Drugs make so much money, people locked up make a ton of money. our country will let you go without needed surgery or treatment even if you'll die because someone won't cover the cost.....

It's sad to be number one in the entire world for people behind bars.

Our education ranking is falling, companies are closing or leaving the country, I know so many people out of work right now it's a really sad time.

I hope this Obama does something soon to make a real impact, health care free or reduced costs would be great in saving us some money. If we pay taxes from the day we have money till the day we die I hope our country would at least let us live healthy lives.
 
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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My other thoughts are, how much money did cuba make off of the inhaler? Rather, how much did they lose?

Free healthcare would be nice though.
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGEN2008 View Post
Anyone seen the Michael Moore film on health care?

Where the 9-11 volonteers can't get health care after getting sick from the debris. How France has free health care and Cuba had the same medication we charge people 120.00 for and they sold it for .05 cents lol.

If a 3rd world country can afford health care for people why can't our country?

Any thoughts?
I hate to say this. But America's free market has created extreme greed and inflation. I see a falling of our economy and infrastructure if this keeps up. What happened to a doctor actually wanting to help people? Unless you got a big bank account your passed on. Just my two cents.
 
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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there are more important things to do than all this health care nonsense.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I hate to say this. But America's free market has created extreme greed and inflation. I see a falling of our economy and infrastructure if this keeps up. What happened to a doctor actually wanting to help people? Unless you got a big bank account your passed on. Just my two cents.
I think greed is good.
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Old 09-26-2009, 05:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=RAGEN2008;711391]

I'd pay 10% more taxes if my family and I got free health care.

QUOTE]

If you paid 10% more taxes for health care than it wouldnt be free :) If anyone thinks that they will get remotely the same type of health care that a politican does as they claim there will be dissapointment. Im down for free healthcare as Im sure no one will be dumb enough to say no I dont like free stuff. Lets just see a plan that makes sense and a way the govt plans on paying for this. Otherwise your taxes will not only increase to pay for health care but in all other types of areas you wont be aware of.

Unless these politicans take political gain and self interest out of this proposed plan, IMO I think it will eventually fail. With out tighter restrictions to who qualifys and how it is managed the govt will go bankrupt just trying to keep the free care alive. This has been the example in other countries as well. If Im not mistaken there was a town somewhere in Hawaii that tried this theory and within 1 year they had to put an end to it because it was going bankrupt.

As menitioned:

-There is a high unemployment rate
-businesses closing due to economic situation
-Economy is improving but still rock bottom
-Fuel and energy is still expensive and we are still relying on foregin supply
-We are still in a war and have countrys like Iran and Korea developing nuclear arms

To me these are much bigger issues that I dont feel are being addresed with the importance and impact they have towards our country. Instead we want to issue free health care without a solid plan and until recently didnt even know how we were going to pay for it. Yet this is number one on our govt list, the president is having weekly speeches or plugs on health care as far as even appearing on late night shows.

Before this it was all about closing guantanamo bay and pointing the finger a politicans that are not even in office anymore. Waterboarding for example was one of the highlights of closing this facylity. Come on guys its no difference that all the crap and focus on athletes and the supplement industry with regards to steroids. Lets focus on the more important issues and work our way down.

Barry bonds doing steroids I dont care. Drug lords fighting actually battles killing them selves, border patrol and innocent civilians at the U.S border, yes lets please try and address that. 400 thousand to pay for a congress man to sit in a chair and yell at Roger Clemens or 400 thousand to pay a few more border patrol agents annual salarys or invested towards intelgence in regards to actual drugs. I think you guys know where Im coming from.

One last thing I think Moore is a joke. Theres always 2 sides to ever fact and he only tells the one that will make him the most money. Since his early days with the whole GM thing I had no respect for the guy.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:

Barry bonds doing steroids I dont care. Drug lords fighting actually battles killing them selves, border patrol and innocent civilians at the U.S border, yes lets please try and address that. 400 thousand to pay for a congress man to sit in a chair and yell at Roger Clemens or 400 thousand to pay a few more border patrol agents annual salarys or invested towards intelgence in regards to actual drugs. I think you guys know where Im coming from.

One last thing I think Moore is a joke. Theres always 2 sides to ever fact and he only tells the one that will make him the most money. Since his early days with the whole GM thing I had no respect for the guy.
The only way to get rid of the Drug War in Mexico and the U.S is to legalize, first step is marijuana. Marijuana has not killed a sole, The black market has though. Keeping our drug laws keeps the Drug lords in business. Legalize and control it, and you put the black market out of business. But you also make tons of jobs for AMERICANS. You also will put some of these radical anti-drug people out of a job also. The war on drugs is a failure and a waste of our tax payers money. Not ONE drug that the DEA and local law enforcement around the country have tried to combat is in less supply and demand then when the Drug war started.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I heard they estimate 45,000 people will die in a year because of no health care, what's a hard issue to beat.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The only way to get rid of the Drug War in Mexico and the U.S is to legalize, first step is marijuana. Marijuana has not killed a sole, The black market has though. Keeping our drug laws keeps the Drug lords in business. Legalize and control it, and you put the black market out of business. But you also make tons of jobs for AMERICANS. You also will put some of these radical anti-drug people out of a job also. The war on drugs is a failure and a waste of our tax payers money. Not ONE drug that the DEA and local law enforcement around the country have tried to combat is in less supply and demand then when the Drug war started.
What you say makes sense. Drugs aren’t going anywhere however my point was geared towards the recent escalating violence particularly around the Texas borders El Paso etc. Politicians won’t touch it because it’s one of those grey areas that can tie in to immigration control. We all know that politicians avoid immigration like it was the plague. Well at least most of them. Any ways that’s just a point that these are issue which are more important IMO.

Marijuana is one thing which is actually being considered for legalization which goes to show that it’s all about money. Wasn’t good for the public but now all of a sudden it is because we’re in a bad economic state and we can tax it. Hypocrites. lol

Back on the topic at hand, there is nothing in the reform that shows control on how immigrants will not be able to utilize the free health care. Other arguments are well we can’t let people die. We can’t already, it’s the law. Hospitals cannot turn anyone away in the case of an emergency. Fact is the % of the Americans who do not have insurance is a lot lower than the Americans that do and choose not to purchase insurance. It is unfortunate that some people cannot afford or are out of work. My heart goes out to them but we can’t just simply say ok every has free insurance. What kind of negative effect will that have. Won’t have any for us but it will be horrible or our grandchildren.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I heard they estimate 45,000 people will die in a year because of no health care, what's a hard issue to beat.
25000 thousand people die alone from the flu every year. Why dont we start with free flu shots for everyone. I bet it wont come out to one trillion dollars.

My point is number 1 I dont believe those statistics are even remotely close just like the ones they fabricated that americans can not affors health insurance when close to 50% of that were americans who choose not to purchase insurance and illegal Immigrants.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Over 664,000 people are homeless in the United States at any given time do you think we should give them free homes? No but like health care there are already programs to feed and shelter the homeless. In Health care there are already programs to help and treat injured and sick un insured americans as well. Maybe we should work on those programs and see what the results are instead of just making such a drastic leap into the unkown. Im all down for chances but not when when the Country is still getting up from falling on its face.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Over 664,000 people are homeless in the United States at any given time do you think we should give them free homes? No but like health care there are already programs to feed and shelter the homeless. In Health care there are already programs to help and treat injured and sick un insured americans as well. Maybe we should work on those programs and see what the results are instead of just making such a drastic leap into the unkown. Im all down for chances but not when when the Country is still getting up from falling on its face.
Sad, We cant help our own... yet send millions to foreign countries.
 
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Legalizing marijuana will not put it out of a black market industry. Movies are available and there is still a black market for that. Even if the war on drugs is a waste of money, it puts money into the pockets of Americans.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Legalizing marijuana will not put it out of a black market industry. Movies are available and there is still a black market for that. Even if the war on drugs is a waste of money, it puts money into the pockets of Americans.
Are you serious? If you make it non-profitable why would they still grow marijuana to sell? If you grow and regulate the price, high quality for cheaper then the Mexicans or anyone else for that matter could produce. Just like alcohol prohibition, remember how all the violence disappeared after it ended and it became legal and was produced and sold cheaper then the black market could, no more need for gangster moonshine when you could go to the local store and get it cheaper? The movies thing your using does not work out. A movie is sold because you can download one and sell it for cheaper then what the stores do. Not the same at all.

YouTube - Glenn Beck Legalize Marijuana & Stop The Violence
 
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Are you serious? If you make it non-profitable why would they still grow marijuana to sell? If you grow and regulate the price, high quality for cheaper then the Mexicans or anyone else for that matter could produce. Just like alcohol prohibition, remember how all the violence disappeared after it ended and it became legal and was produced and sold cheaper then the black market could, no more need for gangster moonshine when you could go to the local store and get it cheaper? The movies thing your using does not work out. A movie is sold because you can download one and sell it for cheaper then what the stores do. Not the same at all.

YouTube - Glenn Beck Legalize Marijuana & Stop The Violence
There was violence that kept going on regardless of prohibitions end, the mafia controlled and battled for major portions of big cities in the US. Home made alcohol can be cheaper than store bought anyway, just because something is legal doesn't mean there isn't a cheaper way to get it. If Marijuana was legal you can't really believe the FDA would not try to make a profit off of it that couldn't be EASILY undercut.

I could go out and buy a small 40 dollar bottle of grey goose, or I could build a homebrewer and make a liter of vodka for about 10 bucks. The black market will always offer cheaper products.
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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free health care would be badass, i think 9/10 people who say free health care is bad are either
A. Rich
or
B. Republican and watch Fox News wayy to much

because poor families would actually save more money by paying extra taxes due to low income, however how does tht fair to the low population of rich people?
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:41 AM   #21 (permalink)
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free health care would be badass, i think 9/10 people who say free health care is bad are either
A. Rich
or
B. Republican and watch Fox News wayy to much

because poor families would actually save more money by paying extra taxes due to low income, however how does tht fair to the low population of rich people?
Nope your very mistaken. Democrats also disagree with the current proposal. Not all but some. Shouldnt matter who you are and who cares if the republicans dont like it, they way things are now this proposal can most likely get passed with out the republicans but why hasnt it?????? Because it doesnt work yet. No one is saying free health care is wrong, you need to see arguments on both sides before judgment or a sterotype is thrown around. Before everyone gets behind this DEMOCRATS included it needs to make sense. Exactly how besides cuts are we going to pay the 1 trillion doolar price tag? How exactly will non american citizens not be able to take advantage of this.

If Obama said Free Life insurance for all amriacans, or automatic free social security that only the rich pay for. Is that the kind of country that you want to live in? Whats considered rich in todays world is not what you think. Its also a very small percentage.

How about this, tax the rich and rich Republicans to pay for health care. (hypothetical) Cool the poor now gets free insurance. The Rich which 90% own businesses lay off or cut wages to compensate for higher taxes or better yet leave the country entirely stregnthening foregn business and take away jobs that can be filled by Americans. Not that easy. In a perfect world yes we would have no poor, everyone would be able to see a doctor and everyone would have great stable jobs.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Nope your very mistaken. Democrats also disagree with the current proposal. Not all but some. Shouldnt matter who you are and who cares if the republicans dont like it, they way things are now this proposal can most likely get passed with out the republicans but why hasnt it?????? Because it doesnt work yet. No one is saying free health care is wrong, you need to see arguments on both sides before judgment or a sterotype is thrown around. Before everyone gets behind this DEMOCRATS included it needs to make sense. Exactly how besides cuts are we going to pay the 1 trillion doolar price tag? How exactly will non american citizens not be able to take advantage of this.

If Obama said Free Life insurance for all amriacans, or automatic free social security that only the rich pay for. Is that the kind of country that you want to live in? Whats considered rich in todays world is not what you think. Its also a very small percentage.

How about this, tax the rich and rich Republicans to pay for health care. (hypothetical) Cool the poor now gets free insurance. The Rich which 90% own businesses lay off or cut wages to compensate for higher taxes or better yet leave the country entirely stregnthening foregn business and take away jobs that can be filled by Americans. Not that easy. In a perfect world yes we would have no poor, everyone would be able to see a doctor and everyone would have great stable jobs.
im guessing those democrats that are saying no are rich for the most part sorry but that's how i see it, not trying to offend anyone here.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:26 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Have you read the proposal? Have you seen how many flaws there are. Im not rich and I dont agree with it and Im not a republican either. Thats just the thing everyone wants a hand out and if they dont get it, its the rich peoples fault..... Not directed to you George just in general.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:50 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I think what some of you guys are missing is we (USA) spend 5-6% on average more for health care per year, than some countries who give out free health care for their entire country.

If their country spends less and can afford to give everyone free health care, that's an issue we need to deal with and step one is starting to make these medical companies stop raising prices for stuff to outrageous amounts.

I understand everyone needs to make money for a living, but when the cost of making that living is so high that we can't afford to keep ourselves healthy, that is something that our government should do something about.

Health care is an issue because many people go broke trying to get dependents healthy, when you lose your home because you have a kid sick with cancer and spend every dime you have from saving, college funds and retirement plans and still go broke and lose your home that is an issue and that happens every day.

You point out about 25,000 people dying a year from the flu. This is a perfect example of how ****ty our health care system is, people don't go to the doctor anytime they need to because they can't afford it and we have little to no preventative health care in this country. Did you ever ask yourself why 25,000 people would die from something as simple as the flu when we are a highly medically advanced country?

If we had free health care we'd visit the doctor more and do more preventive testing. Just compare our life expectancy with many other countries, it's horrible. We're not even in the top 10, we are something like 50th ranked in countries.

49 other countries outliving us in the supposedly best country in the world?

Yes, there are programs out there to help people already, the problem is "they don't work".

If I can work my entire life and pay taxes to this country, the very least this country can do for me, is allow me to enjoy a long and healthy life. I can't do that if I get sick and can't afford to go to the doctor, I can't do that if the treatment I need isn't covered by my insurance carrier.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think thats is an argument not strongly supported but based on opinion. Cant argue with that. Obama just said he can pay for the the free health care through cuts within its own system due to waste full spending. Ok that might be the answer to your expensive health care cost right there. That should be step number 1) to control since its not already. If its not maybe because it cant and then the wastefull spending will continue not paying for the free healthcare cost and then taxes increase.

Theres no prrof or numbers showing many americans go broke trying to pay for healthcare, Either you can afford it or you cant. Either you get benifits through your work or you dont.

Look you guys seem to think that the argument is health care or no healthcare but its really free healthcare of free healthcare when you have a plan worked out and can afford to pay for it. As of right more than 50% of amricans do not agree with whats being proposed not that we shouldnt have free healthcare. Guys we need to be more proactive in our govt and understand completely what is being proposed and what exactly we will get once the proposal has been approved. Theres a reason why the Democratic party does not want to pass this because there is a high probability it will fail and they don not want to be responsable for it. There are many Republican orginazations as well as teams per say with both Republican and democras working on proposals as well. The goal is to come up with something that siwll not fail and further destroy are economic recovery.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You think there is nothing to support a problem with people not having health insurance in the US and that the need for health coverage or people go broke paying high medical costs is an opinion? I can't argue with that, you're joking right?

Budget cuts and removing wasteful spending will cure high health care costs? Maybe you missed the point, the high health care costs are driven by these unregulated health care companies, who charge you 100.00 dollars for medicine other countries pay a dollar for the exact same medicine.

There is no proof or numbers showing American's go broke trying to pay for health care? This is another joke right? What do you think happens when people without insurance or the insurance carrier won't cover all or most of the cost for treatments or procedures? Who do you think is paying for the sick person? Does it suddenly become free?

Have you ever even had a major surgery? I have, it and a two week hospital stay was 90,000 dollars. Can you explain how you'd pay 90,000 dollars without health insurance or 100% coverage? Would 90,000 dollars in debt make most people broke in the US? Do you have 90,000 dollars in your bank account? How many other people in the US have 90,000 dollars to cover the same surgery I needed?

There is no proof you say, how do you explain this?

2009 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Public Health found a much higher figure of more than 44,800 excess deaths annually in the United States due to Americans lacking health insurance.

More broadly, the total number of people in the United States, whether insured or uninsured, who die because of lack of medical care were estimated in a 1997 analysis to be nearly 100,000 per year.

I guess these people must be lying, because you know Harvard studies about the US, is an opinion since all the doctors and researchers are idiots.


Republican or Democrats don't know if free health care would work? You explain to us, how free medical care wouldn't work for the American people. Going to the doctor when you need to and getting the treatments and medication you need is supposed to be some sort of bad thing?

If other countries can provide free health care, out live us in average life span with less sickness and gross less money a year than the US, I'd like to see some evidence why lesser countries can do it and why we can't.

You say things are opinions and not supported, maybe you need to try actually doing some research, there are countless articles and reports out there to back up every claim I've made.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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U.S. health care doesn?t suck | The City Wire

Submitted by The City Wire staff on Fri, 03/27/2009 - 5:22pm.

Dr. Scott Atlas, M.D., a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and a professor at the Stanford University Medical Center, says the growing acceptance for a larger government role in the health care system requires an acceptance that the system is broken.

“Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers and academics alike are beating the drum for a far larger government role in health care,” Atlas notes. “Much of the public assumes their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. However, before turning to government as the solution, some unheralded facts about America's health care system should be considered.”

Atlas’ 10 surprising facts about American health care:

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52% higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88% higher in the United Kingdom.

Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality is 9% higher, prostate cancer is 184% higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10% higher than in the United States.

Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56% of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36% of the Dutch, 29% of the Swiss, 26% of Germans, 23% of Britons and 17% of Italians receive them.

Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. For example, Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89%) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72%). More than half of American men (54%) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16%).
Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7% versus 5.8%).

Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long — sometimes more than a year — to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer.

People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70% of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and British adults say their health system needs either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."

Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the "health care system," more than half of Americans (51.3%) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared to only 41.5% of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8%) than Canadians (8.5%).

Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K.

Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed country. Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past 34 years did a scientist living in America not win or share in the prize.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGEN2008 View Post
You think there is nothing to support a problem with people not having health insurance in the US and that the need for health coverage or people go broke paying high medical costs is an opinion? I can't argue with that, you're joking right?

Budget cuts and removing wasteful spending will cure high health care costs? Maybe you missed the point, the high health care costs are driven by these unregulated health care companies, who charge you 100.00 dollars for medicine other countries pay a dollar for the exact same medicine.

There is no proof or numbers showing American's go broke trying to pay for health care? This is another joke right? What do you think happens when people without insurance or the insurance carrier won't cover all or most of the cost for treatments or procedures? Who do you think is paying for the sick person? Does it suddenly become free?

Have you ever even had a major surgery? I have, it and a two week hospital stay was 90,000 dollars. Can you explain how you'd pay 90,000 dollars without health insurance or 100% coverage? Would 90,000 dollars in debt make most people broke in the US? Do you have 90,000 dollars in your bank account? How many other people in the US have 90,000 dollars to cover the same surgery I needed?

There is no proof you say, how do you explain this?

2009 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Public Health found a much higher figure of more than 44,800 excess deaths annually in the United States due to Americans lacking health insurance.

More broadly, the total number of people in the United States, whether insured or uninsured, who die because of lack of medical care were estimated in a 1997 analysis to be nearly 100,000 per year.

I guess these people must be lying, because you know Harvard studies about the US, is an opinion since all the doctors and researchers are idiots.


Republican or Democrats don't know if free health care would work? You explain to us, how free medical care wouldn't work for the American people. Going to the doctor when you need to and getting the treatments and medication you need is supposed to be some sort of bad thing?

If other countries can provide free health care, out live us in average life span with less sickness and gross less money a year than the US, I'd like to see some evidence why lesser countries can do it and why we can't.

You say things are opinions and not supported, maybe you need to try actually doing some research, there are countless articles and reports out there to back up every claim I've made.
Look dude now your twisting things to attack. Theres no attack made to you and and this thread I thought was for debating purposes unless you initiated it based on emotion.

I want to see where the 5-6% came form. What means or measurers were taken to accurately account for that %. Your argument is good in nature. Yes lets all end world wars, cure aids, poverty, unemployment lets do itall. With a wave of a wand we would all want nothing more. But people dies, thats fact and life. People are unemployed, thats fact, not everyone had insurance thats fact. Free health insurance GOOD As long as theres a good plan covering all the bases.

Theres no point missed, another attack Im not going into because it a waste of time. All I gotta say look at John McCains porposed plan for health care reform. Not to bad of an idea if you ask me and has also been revisited by Obama. (No I did not vote for McCain) I think we can spend a lot less in programs that aid in affordable insurance govt assisted whith spending a lot less than 1 Trillion dollars.

Again I never said Americans dont go broke, I said show me your facts and how there accuratley accounted for big guy. before we throw numbers around.

Ok so you had a maijor surgery. I dont know you and I dont know your circumstance, but is it the fault of the govt and the rich or republicans that you do not have insurance??? What about the americans who choose not to pay for insurance. If they have to pay 90k for a surgery should the govt pick up the tab because they chose to save 2-300 dolalrs a month???? Just because you had an unfortunate event in your life doesnt mean our govt owes you. Oh... and I highly doubt you are paying 90k if so the govt has programs to help assist you so that you do not have to pay that entire amount.

Dude again I know this is an emotional topic for you so thats why you might be missing the point. Let me highlight here.

MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT SAYING FREE HEALTH CARE WONT WORK IN THE SENSE OF PROVIDING CARE OR THAT ITS A BAD THING. THE PROPOSAL SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN THE PROPOSAL MAKES SENSE THAN MORE AMERICANS AND POLITICANS WELL JUMP ON BOARD. PLEASE LOOK AT IT FROM BOTH SIDES NOT JUST THE FACT THAT YOU NEED HEALTH CARE. WHEN ALL THE NUMBERS MAKE SENSE AND WE KNOW THAT ITS NOT GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON OUR ECONOMY OR DEFICIT THEN LETS GO FOR IT.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Geez. Just realized Im spending way to much valuable time in this thread. lol Please read the proposal entirely and if it makes sense and you still think its a good way to provide free health coverage than maybe myself and more than 50% of americans are reading something wrong.
 
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm tending to side with Genomyx on this. Although, i'll admit, i can see both sides of the arguement. Healthcare does need drastic change, but can the government affectively do this (in my opinion probably not, i'm young but i've yet to see the government do anything that wasnt driven by self gain). i work in healthcare, i have had to turn down patients because of their insurance or lack there of (not emergancy cases, but outpatient exams). I've also had to give priority to patients just because of the type of provider they have. Doctors will and do take extra steps (even if unneccessary), to give care to patients with good insurance. It is in fact unfair but whats going to stop these doctors from taking advantage of the new free healthcare plan (unneccessary exams/procedures are exactly that, everything has a risk).

Genomyx could you give us a link to the full proposed bill?

Ragen you mention all the numbers for unneccessary deaths, but if you think about it alot of the top causes for death are ones that could be prevented through Americans taking responcibility for themselves. I dont think the government should have to take responcibility for lazy Americans (yes the majority of We Americans are lazy).

Seeing as We the people no longer have control over our government (when was the last time you actually got to vote on an issue, after being presented with all the facts), i think the best thing we can do is stand united and prepare for whatever happens. If we want to save lives then all we can do is encourage our friends and families to take better care of themselves. Most medicines are only covering up symptoms of an underlying cause. I think we would be better off investing money into preventive medicine rather then put 100% of our time and money into the direction healthcare is headed now.
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