[RLo]

Okay what is the government not GETTING about this, this is the one place on earth called the graveyard of empires and what difference is it going to make? If they really wanted to win they would just spend a few billion on jobs there instead of hundreds of billions on war and it would be over with. With the money saved we could

a. secure the borders

b. hire police and firemen in places where you could pretty much die before you get help.

c. extend unemployment benefits for almost 2 million people (I used my XP calculator) FOR A YEAR, at $2000 a month. Yea, I had to rub my eyes too. What a waste.

But that wouldn't make Halliburton rich! Like more war will! We're feeding the Halliburton piggy. THEN HALLIBURTON TURNS AROUND AND CONTRIBUTES TO THEIR CAMPAIGNS! It's a sick joke.

Bodybuilding is a big sport in Afghanistan. The vast majority have nothing against America except they are all still starving 8 years later, and now because of the Obama-Surge there are more civilian casualties. Tell the congress to vote for more reconstruction assistance, not more bombs and bullets. This brings our troops home sooner, and is less bloody on all sides.

The program is at jobsforafghans.org With good links on the bodybuilders of Afghanistan too. Arnold has cult figure status there, and there are billboards of him everywhere. It's unbelievable.

If they really had wanted Bin Laden they would have got him a long time ago, now this is just a game to pick every last penny from the taxpayers pocket. The soldiers sure don't get the money. The Afghan people don't get it. The companies who manufacture the parts for jets and helicopters do.

Call Sen. Daniel Inouye (D- HI)
202-224-3934 , who heads the Senate appropriations committee where it goes next. If a voicemail kicks in after hours please leave a message.

House Democrats unveil $94.2 billion wartime spending bill

House Democrats unveiled a $94.2 billion wartime spending bill Monday that adds $9.3 billion to White House requests but also reflects serious doubts about the long-term viability of U.S. commitments to Afghanistan and its neighbor Pakistan.

202-224-3934 Rep. Dan Inyoue (D-Hawaii)

jobsforafghans.org

[Corpse]

Zeitgiest addendum on you tube will open some peoples eyes

[stateofmind25]

Originally Posted by RLo

If they really had wanted Bin Laden they would have got him a long time ago,

Not so sure about that one...have you fought in Afghanistan? Been there? --> I don't mean this in a condescending way, just curious...

[RLo]

Originally Posted by stateofmind25

Not so sure about that one...have you fought in Afghanistan? Been there? --> I don't mean this in a condescending way, just curious...

no offense taken. No I haven't, I'm taking it on the word of this guy in Delta Forces, and a few others, that they had him cornered at Tora Bora in 2001, just after 9/11, before he slipped across the border. Here is the quote from the 60 Minutes interview of Dalton Fury (they can't use his real name) which you can watch at the link below.

Elite Officer Recalls Bin Laden Hunt
Delta Force Commander Says The Best Plan To Kill The Al Qaeda Leader In 2001 Was Nixed


Fury told 60 Minutes his orders were to kill bin Laden and leave the body with the Afghans.

"Right here you're looking at basically the battlefield from the last location that we had a firm on Osama bin Laden's location," Fury explains to Pelley, looking at a ridgeline with an elevation of about 14,000 feet.

Asked how tough it would be to attack such a position on a scale of one to ten, Fury tells Pelley, "In my experience it’s a ten."

Delta developed an audacious plan to come at bin Laden from the one direction he would never expect.

"We want to come in on the back door," Fury explains. "The original plan that we sent up through our higher headquarters, Delta Force wants to come in over the mountain with oxygen, coming from the Pakistan side, over the mountains and come in and get a drop on bin Laden from behind."

But they didn't take that route, because Fury says they didn't get approval from a higher level. "Whether that was Central Command all the way up to the president of the United States, I'm not sure," he says.

The next option that Delta wanted to employ was to drop hundreds of landmines in the mountain passes that led to Pakistan, which was bin Laden’s escape route.

"First guy blows his leg off, everybody else stops. That allows aircraft overhead to find them. They see all these heat sources out there. Okay, there a big large group of Al Qaeda moving south. They can engage that," Fury explains.

But they didn't do that either, because Fury says that plan was also disapproved. He says he has "no idea" why.

"How often does Delta come up with a tactical plan that's disapproved by higher headquarters?" Pelley asks.

"In my experience, in my five years at Delta, never before," Fury says.

cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/02/60minutes/main4494937.shtml

There's a lot of good links on this subject here.
busharchives.org/truth.html

anyhow, how you hide a 6 foot 6 diabetic who need dialysis treatments every week is beyond me. You are right though, I hear NW Pak is rugged country. You could be looking for someone there for a long time!

[RAGEN2008]

40 billion more dollars, who do you think pays for that? People who pay taxes, and that means more debt and more means more taxes. Money doesn't end wars.

What about our own country? The American government can not support the people in it's own country, can not protect us in real disasters (remember hurricane Katrina), can not secure it's own borders, can not create enough jobs to keep people working, has a low ranking education system, can not pay it's own debts it has already taken, can not house or feed all needy Americans, can not come up with a reasonable health care system, can not protect it's own people on their own city streets, can not control the selling of drugs, can not keep people from committing crimes and out of jail.

You do realize that America, home of the free, land of the brave spends more on prisons and has more prisoners than any other nation in the world right? About 1 out of 100 Americans is our rate.

So why would we offer help to another country or attempt to end its crime, when we can not do the same in our own country? Because of 9-11? 2,900 people died and we've had over that many American deaths since then in this war, so is it worth it? Do we run our country more into the ground to help these people when our own country is falling apart? Where is the man responsible, this Bin Laden? Do we spend the next 10 years looking for a guy that might already be dead?

I have a son in Iraq right now this very second, I don't give a crap how hard it is to live there or what the land is like, or how hard those people in those countries have it, we have no business fighting some place when we have a fight going on every day outside our front door.

Agree or don't agree, but I am smart enough to not trust or believe people that can not follow their own advice or do what they say they will do for their own country and don't.

Do not have false hope that you are safe and secure in your own country because you are not.

[RLo]

Originally Posted by RAGEN2008

40 billion more dollars, who do you think pays for that? People who pay taxes, and that means more debt and more means more taxes. Money doesn't end wars.

What about our own country? The American government can not support the people in it's own country, can not protect us in real disasters (remember hurricane Katrina), can not secure it's own borders, can not create enough jobs to keep people working, has a low ranking education system, can not pay it's own debts it has already taken, can not house or feed all needy Americans, can not come up with a reasonable health care system, can not protect it's own people on their own city streets, can not control the selling of drugs, can not keep people from committing crimes and out of jail.

You do realize that America, home of the free, land of the brave spends more on prisons and has more prisoners than any other nation in the world right? About 1 out of 100 Americans is our rate.

So why would we offer help to another country or attempt to end its crime, when we can not do the same in our own country? Because of 9-11? 2,900 people died and we've had over that many American deaths since then in this war, so is it worth it? Do we run our country more into the ground to help these people when our own country is falling apart? Where is the man responsible, this Bin Laden? Do we spend the next 10 years looking for a guy that might already be dead?

I have a son in Iraq right now this very second, I don't give a crap how hard it is to live there or what the land is like, or how hard those people in those countries have it, we have no business fighting some place when we have a fight going on every day outside our front door.

Agree or don't agree, but I am smart enough to not trust or believe people that can not follow their own advice or do what they say they will do for their own country and don't.

Do not have false hope that you are safe and secure in your own country because you are not.

All true. Get them out now. The problem is people will say you need to have stability in Afghanistan (what I'm talking about) before you can pull out, and you can't just leave it to the Taliban. But the only reason you have the Taliban is because we've been spending hundreds of billions on military hardware instead of a few billion on crappy $10-a-day jobs which would keep men from joining the Taliban, which pays $8 a day and that's the only reason they join. That's good money in these parts. Then they save that money and start small businesses like fruit stands and donkey carts or whatever, and they're on their own.

The bottom line is if you want to save big money, you don't have a war. Wars cost hundreds of billions. For a few billion you could hire everyone in the country for a year digging ditches or whatever, which gives the economy a jump start, and go home. I'd rather spend $3 billion than $100 billion (not to mention American lives. We've got family deployed in Afghanistan and we want them out.)

[Demon Knight]

Fellas, I think it's pretty clear why the US invaded Afghanistan/Iraq.

1)To get close to China (they are the next USSR)
2)OIL!

[Cock'n'Fire]

I've lived in the Middle East for a long time, before moving to the states back in 99, and I'd have to say, some of you make very good points. However, from my experience there, the hate and spread of propaganda towards US was there and growing long before the wars. And another problem in the Middle East that won’t allow our troops to pull out is the fact that the militias in most of these countries hold more power than the central government. Even if we do try to "fix" their economic plans it will just be a waste of time, because many of the Islamic groups there will not allow it, which will eventually spark a war.

About finding Bin Laden, it would've been easier to take him out before the war, but it’s really useless. Killing him will do nothing to the Taliban, someone will take his place, and his death would actually be a great way to spread more propaganda and rally more troops for the "cause". That’s the actual tactic that Hamas is using right now. The only way I see this ending, if we strengthen those central governments, and support them with their fights against these terrorist groups. Those groups are dangerous and well funded, and it’s a scary thought to have them organizing another attack.

I just hope that the troops come back safe to their homes and familes.

[RAGEN2008]

So you'd suggest that we can help these countries end political and religious wars that have been going on for 2,000 years?

How long will this take and at what cost?

Two costs that do not benefit our country is running our economy more into the ground and losing American lives. To me bring stabilization to one country isn't worth it. There are many countries much worse off than Afghanistan.

How big of a threat are these people to our country? More than China, Iran, North Korea? Not even close, going to war for years in the hopes that we will cure terrorism that invades the US every few years in isolated incidents doesn't make up for the billion of dollars lost. More people die each year in America from violent crime than the incident that started this one 9-11.

Why not double the police force in America since we're at such a threat for terrorism, we need protection in our country, not 1/2 way across the world. I think billions of dollars spent to strengthen our country within is a much better investment that walking around a desert trying to find our who or who is not a terrorist, while trying to avoid getting shot in the dark or blown up by a road side bomb.

[mikeh40+]

man does this topic you post ever end RLo? really how many threads do you plan on starting on this jobsforafghans.org program? its been touched on now 3 separate threads,
here`s what YOU do not seem to understand.
first off its not about the bodybuilders in Afghanistan that are the problem so i really dont get how you came to the dungeon with your push to promote this program, its apparent by your lack of action > meaning posts on other BODYBUILDING THREADS in the dungeon forums that your
only a member here to push this on us, maybe find a political forum from now on and spread your propaganda there, this is a bodybuilding web site not a place to promote your views on jobs for Afghanistan's.

second you simply cannot fix the problems in the middle east by offering their men $10 dollars a day and expect that will bring loyalty to the America or the res of the worlds views and help end this war, I understand the fact the vast population over their is poor, which is a sad thing, but its not just Afghanistan that has a poor population, i can add Africa , Mexico, Cuba and many others to this list,but they do not come to America and blow up our cities,if they did then they would also feel the wrath of our military,
so should we also come in and employ those men in other countries also? If so where does it end? America is not the Global employment agency of the world, what we are however is a nation that takes action against those countries that harbor terrorist who are dedicated to attack anyone and everyone that have different views and lifestyles and religious views then them, plus the fact they dont value any form of human life, since the terrorist will blow up Innocent women and children as well, so its not just the military that is a target for these moron`s.

however its more than money that has them picking up weapons and fighting any outside force that has come in to end the taliban regime, these people are so ingrained to hate everyone that has a different religion then them that offering them a extra few dollars is a joke!! your not going to change jack shiat with that approach, you seem to be missing the fact that these people have not changed their view for centuries, they cant seem to find harmony with their own people and its their damn land we fighting for, their people that our troops are dying for, our nations hard earned money thats paying for them to be free,
its high time that these people figure out the rest of the world is tired of the crap that they seem to sow with their outdated ideals and views.

[kenney]

Originally Posted by Demon Knight

Fellas, I think it's pretty clear why the US invaded Afghanistan/Iraq.

1)To get close to China (they are the next USSR)
2)OIL!

OIL - without a shadow of a doubt. I dont think American forces have any desire to 'get close to China'. they certainly aren't the 'next USSR'. Although China is (apparently) a communist state, under the current regime they are a particularly secluded communist state. America's biggest fear of communism, is the spread of communism - this isn't happening in China (other than Cambodia and Laos but they haven't recently converted). Whereas the USSR was a communist state that intended to spread the word of communism (hence the USSR satelitte states and Cuba). Also China does alot for the USA. Currently, China produces countless goods to be sold to the West at very cheap prices. I can assure you that the Western capitalist nations have no problem with China, and if they did intend to invade China or oppose China, it would be a tragic mistake on our behalf

[Genghis]

Hmph..

Its all Oil as 2 guys with brains in this thread quoted, If Americans, yes the people woke up for a sec.. actually looked at things instead of just waving their flag up and spewing patriotism everywhere.. they'd actually notice their being lied to.. but that'll never happen as long as the people "rely" on the goverment,

Blood 4 Oil.. thats all it is,

[kenney]

im sure someone has mentioned it but Zeitgeist one of the best reccomendations i think of

[Genghis]

Originally Posted by kenney

im sure someone has mentioned it but Zeitgeist one of the best reccomendations i think of

Yh either "Zeitgeist" or "The Arrivals", but anyways I know this thread is just going to wonder off/dissappear into the archives since this is at the end of the day just a BB'ing forum and most of the people on here aint here to listen or talk politics or life so this thread is going to be most likely ignored.., which is a shame really...