[KM]

What's sad, Brent, is your false perception that everything all over the US is fine and dandy. It's not, and the more you believe we've been indoctrinated further proves this point.

Originally Posted by gringo220

We are not suffering here in America but if things keep heading the way they are then maybe in 50-60 years we might be. Everyone has in some way shape or form been affected by the way the economy is right now.

Case and point. Brent, the media is misleading and exaggerated, but it's come to the point where what you seen on TV is reality! If losing a job isn't threatening and frightening, then what is? Especially being a world revolved around money, that's a completely biased way to look at things. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you and your family haven't been affected, but you are the minority and most of us have been.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by Freak

I'm living in the real world. My dad owns his own business and so does my uncle and they have both found ways to cut back but for the most part we haven't changed anything in our lifestyle and it doesn't sound like anyone besides Gringo really has either.

I totally understand the frustration that both Mikes are going through but I still think you guys are indoctrinated and just fail to realize it which is sad. I could be totally wrong.

i do not get brain washed by the media, i have a bit more common sense than to follow along with blinders on, i hope you don't really think i could have that low of a character to be sucked into the media hype, i have lived long enough to have educated opinions and have seen enough in my 41 years that i can tell you things are a changing, the results of job cuts are not made up, company's that are going under are not a media hype, factory's closing down for months just to make it last into the next quarter are fact ,foreclosure is real, what am i indoctrinated about,do you really believe that gringo and I

are those who perceive in the totalitarian societies, much less so in the system of 'brainwashing under freedom' to which we are subjected and which all too often we serve as willing or unwitting instruments

. this is not who i am brent..

[JakeVendetta]

In my opinion it all comes down to greed and perception of life (what you view as important). Greed because you know the rich are affected and how they are affected is going to be much diffrent then the middle class. The rich just sell off one of their homes or cars, which seems like alot to those with less but to them its nothing diffrent then us making fewer trips to town or cutting coupons. What about the poor, do you think they will have to make sacrifices...? i mean the genuinely poor, its pretty unlikely because they've allready got nothing and are greatful to just be able to have food. Its how our economy works, it thrives off of greed. Everyone of you imagine yourself coming into a large sum of money (millions... billions... whatever) think of the things that you would do with it....
Now that you've done that, i bet the first 5 things you've thought of were all about you. Why would you expect that the rich would want to help the middle class. Why would you expect the middle class to give the poor some neccessary items purchased at a dollar store? People are selfish and wanting more then you need is selfish. how many of you have so much debt that you dont know how your going to pay your bills some months... its called living beyond your means. We got ourselves into this mess together, and together is the only way we'll get through it. Together we stand divided we fall... right? I wish people still felt that way.... people instead think... well if i slip up someone else will help me get up. **** that... people we need to take responcibility for ourselves, and be willing to help each other out. If you know someone who lost a job and you have the means to help them do it. WE can sit here for hours and debate about what we COULD do to fix the government... the economy... what the **** does COULD mean... we cant do **** except take care of ourselves. I think you all are missinturpretting what Brent (aka Freak) is talking about hes talking about really realizing whats important. IF we somehow fixed this economy do you think everyone would go back to living the way they were .... ****ing right. If it goes on long enough hopefully people will start to realize whats really important and be grateful for what they do have

[mikeh40+]

i`m grateful for what i have right now jake, your million dollar question is fine, but dont make judgement calls about what i would do with it, i have thought about what i would do if won the lottery, and in that top 5 i have always dreamed of doing good with that kind of money, see i am a generous person, always have been, ask anyone who knows me, i always give before my own needs are filled, i`m the last in my house to get the extra things that are needed, i have given my neighbors lawn mowers , shop vac, i have replaced dishwashers , toilets, sinks, the list goes on and on, and i do this for free, why because they dont have the extra 100 dollars for installation, and the extra money for a new lawn mower or what ever, so lets just back up a min. and leave the judgemenatal crap out of the conversation, i get what freak was trying to say, its how its all coming across, like gringo, myself are totally off base with stating the facts of the economy, why is this so hard to understand, were saying we are making changes because of what is happening, and your right, if things were not going bad right now, yes i would have a bit more money and i could make this trip to florida to watch my daughter dance, but its not so i move on and deal with it one day at a time, i dont expect to understand the wealty nor do i expect to understand the poor, but i will tell you i have been rock bottom, i had my first kid when i was 19, no insurance, 6,000 dollars in medical bills, lived on macaroonie and cheese, and soup, what ever we could afford, i literly had 20 dollars between paydays, but ya know what , i went out and i got 2 more jobs, so working 3 jobs and my wife working 1 job with having to pay daycare, diapers, the list goes on and on,, i know what it is like to have Nothing, so every thing i do have i dont take for granted, and there are many people that have the same experiences and there are many people that are wealthy enough to be ok and not worry about this, see there is a difference here in our life`s, i have a family to support, a house, 2 cars, insurance , utilitys , you name it, what is so simular between you and myself that you could possibly know what i have to go through in this new fantastic economy? what you and freak are doing is profiling everyone into the classes , upper/middle/lower, sorry but there are other factors to consider than just what class i fall into, and how do you suppose we all go about fixing our selfs? i know the government isnt going to give a crap about me, nor is my employer, i`m just a number and i have to fend for myself and my family first, its called self preservation, i does not mean i dont care about the people who have less than me, nor does it mean i would not love a change for the better for the poor and homeless, the abandoned kids, its not just over sea`s its everywhere!! And as americans were expected to feel ashamed of what we do have, sorry but like i said i worked my way up from nothing to what i have now, and it was not from any help from the government.. and this thread is going in the complete opposite direction as to when it started.

[KM]

I don't see this thread going anywhere positive from hear on out, quite frankly. What needs to be understood is that this is the political section, where people are opinionated and discuss the relevance and importance of wordly topics. That said, I perceived this thread becoming personal just because of everyone's failure to collaborate! Including myself.

But like what's been said from the beginning, people's opinions are usually derived from their perspectives.

[JakeVendetta]

Mike you took my post in the complete wrong way. I wasnt aiming my statements at anyone in particular. I wasnt saying that there isnt an economic problem. I honestly didnt read the whole thread i was just giving my opinion on the "crisis". You help yourself by applying for aid, seeking part time employement, you seek the neccessary training to make it, you adapt. You are obviously doing what is neccessary and my million dollar question although a very over generalization was not aimed at you and i like to think not all of you in this thread. Although for everyone of the people like you there are 5 other guys who would spend it all on boats, houses, etc before even considering another human life with the exception and even then maybe not likely, the people they love. Its just the general attitude of our nation, to think that this isnt true and isnt what got us here is asinine.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by KM

I don't see this thread going anywhere positive from hear on out, quite frankly. What needs to be understood is that this is the political section, where people are opinionated and discuss the relevance and importance of wordly topics. That said, I perceived this thread becoming personal just because of everyone's failure to collaborate! Including myself.

oh i dont know KM it was going just fine before all the what you have is living beyond your means, and how much are you sacrificing came along, it was a UPDATE period, see how things are affecting the people on the dungeon, not a worldly debate on who has it the worst. and there is nothing to collaborate on, its a thread on whats going on in your neck of the woods for pete`s sake,, this shiit happens no matter what topic is brought up anymore, a bunch of nitpicking apart from the original POST to begin with,, i started this damn thread so we could keep up to date with ourself`s not the rest of the known world...

[JakeVendetta]

As for my area there is an obvious decline in employment, prices are down/gas prices are stabalizing, stores/businesses are closing. Guess i didnt answer the original question. I appologize.

[KM]

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

oh i dont know KM it was going just fine before all the what you have is living beyond your means, and how much are you sacrificing came along, it was a UPDATE period, see how things are affecting the people on the dungeon, not a worldly debate on who has it the worst. and there is nothing to collaborate on, its a thread on whats going on in your neck of the woods for pete`s sake,, this shiit happens no matter what topic is brought up anymore, a bunch of nitpicking apart from the original POST to begin with,, i started this damn thread so we could keep up to date with ourself`s not the rest of the known world...

I'm not sure why you're taking this as a personal attack Mike.

You continued to add to this thread, so if you didn't like the direction it was going towards the beginning you should have vocalized your opinion. In fact, this thread really had nothing to with the rest of the world, Brent's intentions weren't to derail this entire discussion. We all added to it, but one thing leads to another and that's where trouble begins.

My points was that being opinionated is one of the attributes to this subforum, it's not a flaw, it's a fact.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by JakeVendetta

Mike you took my post in the complete wrong way. I wasnt aiming my statements at anyone in particular. I wasnt saying that there isnt an economic problem. I honestly didnt read the whole thread i was just giving my opinion on the "crisis". You help yourself by applying for aid, seeking part time employement, you seek the neccessary training to make it, you adapt. You are obviously doing what is neccessary and my million dollar question although a very over generalization was not aimed at you and i like to think not all of you in this thread. Although for everyone of the people like you there are 5 other guys who would spend it all on boats, houses, etc before even considering another human life with the exception and even then maybe not likely, the people they love. Its just the general attitude of our nation, to think that this isnt true and isnt what got us here is asinine.

jake you have to realize it does not matter what someone else does with their money, its what you do, thats how you make a difference, one person at a time, and yes i bugs the crap out of me to see multi million dollar houses but its not my life, i dont need nor do i desire a house worth that much money, its just not me, greed my friend is everywhere , not just here, all over the world., the attitude of our nation is why everyone want to come here, for a better way of life, so are we so wrong just because we were born into it? what about the immigrants that come into the usa? what are they looking for? yes a better way of life, just like myself, a better way of life, i dont want to live poor if i can do anything about it, i love this country and i love the fact we can buy what ever we want, but that does not mean that i am greedy, people through out history have always been after more than what they have had, Americans did not start this greed process, its been around since the beginning of time, while it is in a different era and the circumstances are different, look at all the kings and queens, dukes, you name it, look at the churches and the huge wealth they acquire, is there any need to have churches that are gold plated statues, ornate decorations, spend millions and millions of dollars to bury a pope? I mean come on, greed is human nature, its to what extreme you take it,,

[JakeVendetta]

I completely agree with Kevin. It is a fact that political discussion is always very opinionated and the best thing to do is respectfully listen to what other people have to say and wait for your turn to give your opinion and adresss things brought up previously. You cant take anything personally, and I'm sorry Mike that you viewed my post that way.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by KM

I'm not sure why you're taking this as a personal attack Mike.

You continued to add to this thread, so if you didn't like the direction it was going towards the beginning you should have vocalized your opinion. In fact, this thread really had nothing to with the rest of the world, Brent's intentions weren't to derail this entire discussion. We all added to it, but one thing leads to another and that's where trouble begins.

My points was that being opinionated is one of the attributes to this subforum, it's not a law, it's a fact.

listen KM i`m not taking this as a personal attack ok, but it rubs me the wrong way and i`m going to respond to the posts that were made, and in the beginning it was going fine, we were all talking about the jobs and where the economy was headed, what gas prices were, how your hanging in there, stuff like that, so i had no foresight as to what was posted recently which is making us feel guilty for what we have, reread the beginning of this thread and then come back and tell me if we are still on task here,,

[KM]

I do not believe, nor did I say this thread was currently on topic. I actually stated the opposite! But it has deviated, and I don't see anything developing from it as of now. If you browse other political forums, you realize it's a monstrosity of debates. How the debates are handled is what's important. Again, nothing was meant to be personal, but this is politics and I'm sure there's people who feel exactly like you do right now.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by JakeVendetta

As for my area there is an obvious decline in employment, prices are down/gas prices are stabalizing, stores/businesses are closing. Guess i didnt answer the original question. I appologize.

THANK YOU,,, this was the only thing i asked in the very first post, it had nothing to do with any bashing of society, again jake thank you for bringing this back around to where i wanted it to be in the first place

this is post #1 in case anyone besides jake cares to reread it..

so how is everyone doing with economic crises ? as for my job on the railroad there has been system wide slow downs in business and just in my home terminal there has been over 100 people laid off over the last 3 weeks, the outlook is pretty grim, i`m still holding on but i have 20 years on the job , i know my industry is not the only one having cutback, so i`m curious on the status of the rest of the dungeon members from around the globe..

__________________

[JakeVendetta]

I completely agree Mike, and that was the intentions of my first post. We can only directly change ourselves, and thats what everyone needs to do. Those of us with more need to help out where we can and realize the significance a small amount of help can make.
Now for my opinion which some may not like. I think that our country takes greed to a whole diffrent level. There is nothing more irritating to me then seeing a kid crying for something then their family giving in and buying it for them just because he was crying (what happened to positive reinforcement, what are we teaching future generations... that crying is how we get things?).

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by JakeVendetta

I completely agree, and that was the intentions of my first post. We can only directly change ourselves, and thats what everyone needs to do. Those of us with more need to help out where we can and realize the significance a small amount of help can make.
Now for my opinion which some may not like. I think that our country takes greed to a whole diffrent level. There is nothing more irritating to me then seeing a kid crying for something then their family giving in and buying it for them just because he was crying (what happened to positive reinforcement, what are we teaching future generations... that crying is how we get things?).

see now i find something we are both on total agreement on, that kid business is spot on,, and yea it bugs the hell out of me also, what some people are doing is raising a generation of spoiled rotten ,cant do crap for them selfs, mommys boys,who never had their butts spanked and could talk back to mommy and daddy, because god forbid you hurt the little kids feelings/ screw that!!, yes jake that is my biggest pet peeve !!

[JakeVendetta]

I'll try not to derail the thread anymore, but i think this style of parenting compounds the problem.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by JakeVendetta

but i think this style of parenting compounds the problem.

and i believe you are 100% correct!!

[Freak]

I won't post again after this because I don't want to derail the thread. My intentions were never anything personal. I just wanted everyone to take a step back and reflect not only how the economy has affected their lives but to look how other people live and be thankful for what we have and work our asses off for. Greed is the reason our economy is where it is.

[mr_bhana]

Well...

My Families doing good. Both my parents still have their jobs. And my dad and uncle bought a reposessed house and are looking to put that on rent once its redecorated. With property prices super low, buying houses if you got the money is a clever thing to do

[under construction]

not only that but for those who already own a home refinancing cansave you a few hundred a month the wife and I just locked in a 4.8% save about 350 a month.

[mitbar]

so i just sacraficed buying a house as the economy is to shaky to for me especially in my retail sales position and not having a back up job at all.

as far as the recession goes, a knobel prize winner for economics from a highly regarded university has called this a depression. this is in my opinion going to turn out to be the worst recession/depression since the great depresssion. if nothing happens to soon to fix it all this could very well turn into that. look at the stock market now. its under 8000 points and we havent been there for a long time. economist are calling this a depression and it will last for many years my freinds. and for those of you that think a new president will fix it, think again. the president has nothing to do with the economy, its the stock market and the federal reserve that controls this shiit. now the clinton admin started this housing boom and yes the bush admin just sat by and watched it happen so i dont know who to blame. end rant lol.


just to clarify i have read all of about two pages of this thread and none of my remarks were aimed at anyone but rather just me ranting.

[EastCoast Highlander]

better buy land people, land...the only thing of true value... so im good to go : )

[chrispghmuscle]

PPG the paint making company is going to layoff thousands of workers due in part the the big 3 laying off workers.

Steel manufacturers are not producing steel, to make cars, and you cant paint cars without having cars to make..

[mitbar]

sprint is going to lay off 8000 people as well as stop 401k matching and tuition payments.

[chrispghmuscle]

And the snowball affect continues

[under construction]

Originally Posted by EastCoast Highlander

better buy land people, land...the only thing of true value... so im good to go : )

at todays rate I have to agree. We are picking up another lot this month and after refi we are going to get the new piece plus house with only a 72 dollar a month increase.... Gotta love this recession!

[Teran]

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

...its a thread on whats going on in your neck of the woods...

Wasn't sure about resurrecting this thread after reading all the posts, but going to put a post in with this in mind...

Gas is on the rise, more people are losing their jobs. Family and friends are losing jobs left and right or are barely hanging onto them. Some are self employed/in construction some had regular 9-5 jobs. Soon it won't matter if any of them can pay their bills...cause no one will have a job to collect if they don't!

Originally Posted by chrispghmuscle

And the snowball affect continues

We are all interconnected in so many ways. The dominoes are falling, and the only thing left is to see how big a pile they make.

Originally Posted by Freak

... What I tell the man who is in his late 50s who lost his job is you should have starting planning for retirement 30 years ago and not 10 years ago. Let the time value of money work for you. Find an activity to do such as hit the gym because when you are idle you die.

Both my Aunt and Uncle were going to retire. The stock market losses affected their 401K's and other investments due to some of the investment scandals that affected either their money directly or indirectly over the past couple years. They planned a while ago to retire and now can't. Both lost their jobs recently, Uncle to a work related accident that nearly killed him and Aunt to layoffs due to the slow housing markets here. The medical bills they had to pay drained them dry for the most part and getting reimbursed from Workers comp is a joke as is EDD in my area. State doesn't have a budget, and money for the WC and EDD is about to go to IOU's. As it is our state tax refunds will be IOU's. They won't be able to buy food or pay rent with an IOU. Soon they and other family members might have to join forces just to keep up one house payment/car payments (cause in LA no one can sell their car it seems to buy a cheaper one, and everything is at least 30 minutes drive from where you are) and food on the table.

Originally Posted by JakeVendetta

...We got ourselves into this mess together, and together is the only way we'll get through it. Together we stand divided we fall... right? I wish people still felt that way.... people instead think... well if i slip up someone else will help me get up. **** that... people we need to take responcibility for ourselves, and be willing to help each other out. If you know someone who lost a job and you have the means to help them do it..

My wife and I have been doing that with friends and family. We even just moved in with family to help with that and have less overhead in general. Almost everyone who works in my industry (health care) has family they are helping support as we (for now) are in a fairly stable job field. Only problem is when people stop paying co-pays cause they have no job or money and they get sick or hurt, our companies will have to look at layoffs as well as they will have no money either. My company was fairly healthy so to speak before the downturn but took a huge hit in their cash reserves from losses they suffered with the financial markets nosediving.

Originally Posted by mikeh40+

...lived on macaroonie and cheese, and soup, what ever we could afford...i have a family to support, a house, 2 cars, insurance , utilitys , you name it...

Did that in college for years. 5 for a dollar macarooni and cheese in water. Good Stuff! I can work multiple jobs if I need too. Problem is now I'm lucky to just have 1. I could go back to those days if need be, and might soon, but I'd like to eat/live healthy enough to live long enough to have/raise kids/grandkids.

[Freak]

Sorry to hear of your family's misfortunes. That has to be tough especially since they were just going to retire. That's where it really hurts but for young or middle aged people we will be fine. I'm looking past the sucky part (now) and down the road where inefficient businesses and way of life will be cut out.

[chrispghmuscle]

I have noticed a lot more older people.. (ones that should be retired and watching there grandchildren grow up age).. Are back to work, as cashiers, bagger's at grocery stores, stocking shelves or working at the gas station to make ends meet. I look at those people and ask myself why, or how could it come to this.. These are there golden years. And yet there struggling just to pay there bills.

Gas is back up to 2.05 a gallon for regular unleaded in Pa. or at least in my area.