updates from across the globe

KM · 01-14-2009, 01:15 AM

Couldn't agree more. I figured you meant in general, but that's undoubtedly reasonable. But again we retract to America's primaril deadly sin, greed.

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 01:22 AM

And Gandhi has a quote for that

KM · 01-14-2009, 01:23 AM

Post it!

**mikeh40+** · 01-14-2009, 01:25 AM

wow is this thread getting some action,
ok if your going to put people in poor country's in the same categories as us in the u.s.a, its a no brainer, of course there are people who are worse off, poorer, lacking even the basic`s in medical, clean water, clothing you name it, but that has no bearing on what were taking about in the economic problem right now, asking what i sacrifice to in relation to the new economic down fall, well so far i have had to sacrifice nothing, but what i have done is watch my spending and do more thinking on what i really need vs. what i want,but what is the point of working if not to have the things in life you want, yea i could go without a t.v., cable, Internet, supplements, but you know everything i own i busted my butt working for, i give to charity , i donate clothing to the non profit organizations,i really feel sad for people that are lacking those basic of needs,
however i don't feel like having or giving to my family what i can means i have no sympathy for people living in poverty, but i`m not in the position to quit my job and go work for a volunteer organization to make any sort of difference,
yes you can say we as Americans have many blessing, we generally lack for nothing,but the majority works for what we do have, and yes many people live beyond their means, not everyone wants to live their lives with out some luxury's, a new car is great, but i have never bought one, i own 2 used vehicles and i have no problem with that, i have a house and i have comforts that go along with that, but i work for it, and i give my kids what i can, i don't buy the most expensive clothes or hand over money for frivolous things, being conservative is one thing but to buy with no regards to your current finances is another,
i think that having the newest gadgets is over rated, but what are you going to do, stop progress because some people don't agree with having these products, people are always going to want the bigger and better things on the market, i see nothing wrong with that, what i have a problem with is look at our own country, we have people living in poverty, and then across the city are house`s worth millions of dollars, C.O`s of company's making millions and millions of dollars in a year and then asking the regular worker to make cuts in wages to keep the company`s stocks`s looking good, just how many executives do they actually need to run a business? You want to talk about excess, look there, but the lower and the middle class bust their butt`s to make it their life work, try having a family and watch the price of food go up , and the price of car`s, gas, repairs, buying cloths, it endless.. so yea i feel it, i just have less money because my wages do not reflect the increase in consumer goods, this is just the beginning, its not going to get back to how things were when the prices of things were over priced, its getting back to what the prices should have been before the companys got so damn greedy and overpriced everything, you think the price of gas 5 months ago was not a fleecing of the people? they had record profits, RECORD PROFITS.. for the last 2 years , and yet as soon as the economy hits the crapper gas has dropped by half? i say hell yea about time, same as all these electronic`s, geez ya cant sell it for a 90% markup any more.. to bad.. feel my pain for a change,
give it more time and then ask the question about sacrifice again, its all going to start trickling down one little bit at a time, and i dont think sacrifice is going to be the least of our worries either, go ask the guy that is in his late 50`s and lost his job what his new goals are now? whats going to happen once the jobs start drying up?

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 01:40 AM

There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed. - Gandhi

It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver. - Gandhi

**mikeh40+** · 01-14-2009, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak

There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed. - Gandhi

It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver. - Gandhi

yes Gandhi was one of those rare people that come along every once in a lifetime, i enjoy reading these quotes you post brent

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 02:09 AM

See so how is our economy that bad if you haven't had to sacrifice anything? It's the mass media indoctrinating you and you just don't realize it.

What I tell the man who is in his late 50s who lost his job is you should have starting planning for retirement 30 years ago and not 10 years ago. Let the time value of money work for you. Find an activity to do such as hit the gym because when you are idle you die.

**mikeh40+** · 01-14-2009, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak

See so how is our economy that bad if you haven't had to sacrifice anything? It's the mass media indoctrinating you and you just don't realize it.

What I tell the man who is in his late 50s who lost his job is you should have starting planning for retirement 30 years ago and not 10 years ago. Let the time value of money work for you. Find an activity to do such as hit the gym because when you are idle you die.

freak, life just does not work that easily, yes starting to save early on is a great idea, however things come up in life that can drain that saving`s in a heartbeat, there are always house repairs, car repairs, ya get sick miss 1 week of work unpaid like i just had when i was in the hospital, then there are the kids, its always something that they need, just the basics add up, so while its a noble thing to say about savings , its not quite that easy, at least in my life its not, to even get 1,000 dollars saved takes me 4 months, and you know how long that is going to last when i need new tires, or the dishwasher or washing machine breaks down,, hell my week off of work set my back my entire savings, so now i have to start all over again,,
for me right now things are moving in a bad direction, 15% down in train volume, over 150 laid off in my home terminal, i`m saying it is coming, and its coming big time, i wont have a problem getting rid of cable , but the bulk of my spending is done on foods and clothes, gas,, these i cannot go with out, the last thing i will sacrifice will be my house, and by no means is it worth much, and actually i have made one large sacrifice this last year, only one of us can go to Florida to watch my daughter dance at nationals, due to the money issue, since everything has gone up in price we both could not afford to go like we did the year before, if you think not being part of that is not a sacrifice then you wait until you have kids of your own..

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 02:45 AM

Well when you lose your job it will be a different story but so far nobody who has commented in this thread has actually lost their job and I don't know anyone personally who has.

Not being able to go to her dance competition is definitely a sacrifice and it sucks that it has come down to that. 20 years at the job and you are pretty safe Mike.

**mikeh40+** · 01-14-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak

Well when you lose your job it will be a different story but so far nobody who has commented in this thread has actually lost their job and I don't know anyone personally who has.

Not being able to go to her dance competition is definitely a sacrifice and it sucks that it has come down to that. 20 years at the job and you are pretty safe Mike.

i sure hope so, but what i have learned is no job is forever anymore, but i am fairly secure ..... so far..

**chrispghmuscle** · 01-14-2009, 08:27 AM

Freak. my friends lost there jobs September 29 to our Off shore partners.. Bangalore India..

I have cut back on things in my life since gas prices's went thru the roof.. Cost of going out,, buying groceries. Not purchasing a new vehicle and keeping mine running good is ecomonical for me.

Shopping with even more coupons to save at the register. Conserving trips to places when I don't need to go to them.. Only buying what I need.

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 08:51 AM

I think gas prices have normalized now :) Offshoring is different than losing jobs due to an 'economic crisis.'

**chrispghmuscle** · 01-14-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak

I think gas prices have normalized now :) Offshoring is different than losing jobs due to an 'economic crisis.'

Yeah I gas prices have come down a bit.. but Offshoring is due to the economic crisis..

**allstar** · 01-14-2009, 10:00 AM

Gas prices have come down a lot, they have dropped from around 4 to about 1.65.

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 10:37 AM

It was likely just a coincidence. IT stuff is shipped overseas all the time it has to do with saving money unrelated to our economy here in the U.S.

**chrispghmuscle** · 01-14-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freak

It was likely just a coincidence. IT stuff is shipped overseas all the time it has to do with saving money unrelated to our economy here in the U.S.

Unrelated...please,,.dont go there..

**gringo220** · 01-14-2009, 10:50 AM

Mike I agree. Freak you are not seeing the whole picture here. Just like mike said life just doesn't work that easy. And as for someone coming to this thread sayint they lost their job, what about me? I'm self employed so I can't be laid off or fired but work can come to a stand still which it has. Sure mike has a safe job because of the 20 years he spent there but what about they guy who only has 1 year? Bet he's laid off. And you're not asking the whole world this question, you're asking us here on the dungeon and not everyone knows this thread s going. People are getting laid off or their jobs are closing every day. The ford plant in my town just shut its doors, the sears store is closing down at the end of the month, Most of the guys in union construction I know are laid off right now, I know more construction companies around here have went out of business then I have ever seen, A friend of mine works for an auto auction and the have more cars on their lots now because no one is buying the cars, a trucking company has a lot of trucks off the road right now because there's no demand for delivery, A gym in my town just shut it's doors for good, a nice resturaunt that has been around for years is closing it's doors in a few months. Now think about how many people it takes to do all of those jobs that aren't in need or just aren't there anymore. Sure the gas prices have come down a lot but that means nothing now. A lot of the damage was done when it was 4.50 a gallon. That was draining me having to drive to jobs. I put 100 in my truck one day and it didn't even fill it up completely.

Like mike said things happen. I would say the average roof i do costs between 5000-6000. Now that's average and some coat a lot more. I bid one this summer for 15,000 and a few for 8000. Now some times insurance covers it but that's not to often. A roof is the one thing that people need and can't get around not having one that doesn't leak. If it does then it's a disaster waiting to happen. Now if someone has some money saved up and they need to spend it all, then what? They're back to not having any money saved and struggling to get some more back into savings.

A transmission in a car can go from 1600'-3600. What's someone to do if it goes out? Spend money out of their savings. That might drain some people.

Mike nailed it right on. Some of us work to hard to not have any fun. I think you have this idea of everyone sitting t home not enjoying anything and living at the bare minimum. When things were good I took a vacation or to a year. I only get one life and I don't want to live it in the house. People want to enjoy things with their family and if they have the money they should be able to.

I'm sorry to say buddy but this economy is not in god conditioin. It's not as bad as some countries are but were not them. Just not that long ago things weren't as bad and more people were employed and more businesses were still open. You can't compare us to third world countries because it's not the same. You on the other hand can compare us to ourselves when things were better because it was the way our country was and the things we were used to.

**mikeh40+** · 01-14-2009, 11:59 AM

nice wrap up gringo, everywhere you look people are cutting back, i know the majority of people live pay check to pay check, and these people do not live beyond their means, its just the way life has become, over pricing for to many years with no increase in pay for the average worker, that puts you in a deficit financially, how do you plan for a gas rate increase of 4+ dollars a gallon? or the increase of food and electricity, it all comes into play especially when your already at the point of having nothing left over after pay day, like i said in my job just here in Fargo, 150 new employees have been laid off, and some of these guys have been around for 2 years already, when you think you have a regular paycheck coming in and then you have nothing it does not change the fact you have monthly bills, food, gas, electricity just the everyday expenses, yes we are all going to be feeling this and like i said its now just starting with the layoffs, there is nothing that we can do but watch the Shiite roll down hill, and we are at the bottom of that hill, not the wealthy, even the 401k has taken huge hits, savings is something that is a fine thing, but the average person does not have enough money in reserves to take a layoff and still be able to make ends meet, does not matter what your cutting back on , you cant cut back on your mortgage or apartment payments, you need water and food and you need to be able to drive, up here walking is not a option nor is riding a bike, maybe if i got a team of trail dogs i could sell my truck and have my pack dogs pull me to work but i would still have to feed the team of dogs,, lol

**under construction** · 01-14-2009, 01:37 PM

hey Gringo, fuel is a write off for construction workers. If you do it by a mileage log you actually get to write off more than you spend. The cost impacts us a lot of different ways but not by what it costs to fuel our tanks. For us the money is just displaced for a while.

**gringo220** · 01-14-2009, 01:42 PM

Yeah it's not 100% write off though is it? I write off everything possible from gas to dinner (cause it was business related).lol. I end up with a ton of write offs at the end of the year. Only problem is coming up with all the money during the year to supply the high fuel costs. I was spending anywhere from 100-200 a week just in gas when it was around 4 a gallon or more. Now it's not bad but all that money I spent then would have done better for me somewhere else.

**under construction** · 01-14-2009, 02:11 PM

it depends on the vehicle you are driving gas mileage wise. Every year the govt comes up with a magic number like last year it was 42cents a mile, it changes every year to follow fuel prices. So just take the number and your MPG and see where your at.

**chrispghmuscle** · 01-14-2009, 02:13 PM

Down here in PA,, my brother can either write off his gas or maintenance on his vehicles.. He told me you have to decide which one first.. How is it structured where you guys are at?

**gringo220** · 01-14-2009, 02:15 PM

That's for milage though isn't it? I know if you do that you have to have a log book of everywhere you drove and how many miles it was. I was talking about your total of gas reciepts at the end of the year. If you have lets say 6000 in gas you can only write off a certain percent of that right? You can't write off all 6000 of it I don't think. But just having what ever it is as a write off helps out a lot though. Another thing that helps is vehicle depreciation. Only until you use it all up..lol

**gringo220** · 01-14-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispghmuscle

Down here in PA,, my brother can either write off his gas or maintenance on his vehicles.. He told me you have to decide which one first.. How is it structured where you guys are at?

I'm pretty sure it's either gas or milage. I think I write off maintenance with my gas.

**under construction** · 01-14-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringo220

That's for milage though isn't it? I know if you do that you have to have a log book of everywhere you drove and how many miles it was. I was talking about your total of gas reciepts at the end of the year. If you have lets say 6000 in gas you can only write off a certain percent of that right? You can't write off all 6000 of it I don't think. But just having what ever it is as a write off helps out a lot though. Another thing that helps is vehicle depreciation. Only until you use it all up..lol

correct. Thats why your CPA tells you a log is better than reciepts and both are perfectly legal so I just write down miles traveled on each check stub accompanied by a map quest map and done.

**gringo220** · 01-14-2009, 02:24 PM

Yeah I drive all over the place. It would be kind of a pain to write down milage for me and where I went. Reciepts are a lot easier for me cause I put them in a folder and check then at the end of the year.

KM · 01-14-2009, 05:23 PM

Freak, come on. Either you've been desensitized to this entire thing or you aren't living in the real world. It's not whether everyone is suffering, it's about if people are affected. Sure, many of us aren't suffering, because if we were we probably wouldn't be on the computer right now. But everyone is affected by it, maybe it's exaggerated through the media, and maybe it's only a few scarce sacrifices, but if it's effecting population than it's more of a problematic situation than you think.

**Freak** · 01-14-2009, 08:18 PM

I'm living in the real world. My dad owns his own business and so does my uncle and they have both found ways to cut back but for the most part we haven't changed anything in our lifestyle and it doesn't sound like anyone besides Gringo really has either.

I totally understand the frustration that both Mikes are going through but I still think you guys are indoctrinated and just fail to realize it which is sad. I could be totally wrong.

KM · 01-14-2009, 08:25 PM

Unreal.

**gringo220** · 01-14-2009, 08:35 PM

You think I've been brain washed? That's kind of ****ty to say brent. I know exactly what's going on right now in the economy and find it hard to believe you don't see it. I could care less what the media has to say about anything, I look at how I and my friends and family are effected by it. For the self employed work is down. For the employed overtime is cut, jobs were lost or pay was cut. Why do you have a hard time believing the economy is no where as good as it used to be? It's not in good sahpe right now and just about everyone has noticed it in a way. Look at all these business that are failing, all the houses are foreclosed, unemployment is up, cost of living is up.

We are not some dirt house nasty water country. We're america and we have the technology to live clean and have things. So this comparing us to places who don't have that isn't even close. I bet if you ask them if they want a better place to live or clean water they're gonna tell you yes. I bet there's been times where they had some clean water and more food. I bet they want to have all that back again.

I'll tell you right not I have not been changed by the media or preswaded to think something other then what I have been through personally or seen with my own eyes. I know what's going on and I know it's not as good as it once was ond is not headed in the right direction.

We are not suffering here in america but if things keep heading the way they are then maybe in 50-60 years we might be. Everyone has in some way shape or form been affected by the way the economy is right now.