[gringo220]

I agree chris, the war is what's draining our economy right now. We've spent how many trillion on this war so far? And it's mostly on their economy and the rest is to private companies and not the general public of america. If that war was stopped then our economy would coma back a lot faster but it's not going to end anytime seen regardless what obama says.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by gringo220

I agree chris, the war is what's draining our economy right now. We've spent how many trillion on this war so far? And it's mostly on their economy and the rest is to private companies and not the general public of america. If that war was stopped then our economy would coma back a lot faster but it's not going to end anytime seen regardless what obama says.

sad but true!!

[allstar]

The war needs to end, war is not fun, war is all hell. Our strategy for this war was horrible, our tactics almost as bad. What we need to do is start "Total War", search Shermans March and that is a great example of it. Otherwise I see this war never ending.

[gringo220]

War will never end. There's always going to be someone that wants controll of something and to get that you have to beat up a lot of people.

[chrispghmuscle]

My kids and my kids kids will be paying for it in there generation.. It's sickens me to think that everyone knows what's going on. And we are keeping to this bs way of life..

Rebuild them but dont to a damm thing on your own soil.

[mikeh40+]

exactly right Chris!

[gringo220]

That's part of the reason I don't want kids. No sense bringing someone into a screwed up world that isn't going to get any better. I wish I was born back before the white man came to america and was living with the indians. You used just what you needed and respected the earth and everythign on it. Indians way of life is the way every way of life should be now and this planet would last us millions of years longer.

[mikeh40+]

Originally Posted by gringo220

That's part of the reason I don't want kids. No sense bringing someone into a screwed up world that isn't going to get any better. I wish I was born back before the white man came to america and was living with the indians. You used just what you needed and respected the earth and everythign on it. Indians way of life is the way every way of life should be now and this planet would last us millions of years longer.

to some extent yes, but the indians were also at war among each other all the time,BUT their ideals were sound, i agree it would be a far better world if it could go back to a more fundamental way of life,just look at how the old school way of diseplining your kids is a big NO NO now days, no spanking or its child abuse,, give me a fricking break,, everything about the world right now is in shambles, from religion, to government to the homeless, all the way down to the kids, we need to pimp my ride(world) lol,, put some chrome spinners on the north and south pole, a bit of velvet diamond tuck here and there,hang some dingle balls next to the Mexican border, you know pimp this bad boy ..

[KM]

I think we're a hair away from being in a depression. And the reasons why people go to war is what's sickening, to say the least.

First, let's start off with religion. Digging into theology, you realize most religions tend to focus on bettering people by bringing "peace" to their souls, and so on. Which is fine, but if people are fighting over such an optional and sacred subject like religion, it becomes ironic and ridiculous! Nothing against anyone religious here, that's not my point.

People can believe what they choose. Whether it be creationism, atheism, or whatever. If only it was that easy to separate church and government from other nations. Bottom line, people do one thing best, and that's killing eachother.

With that said, I don't believe this was Bush's fault. You guys thoughts?

Originally Posted by gringo220

War will never end. There's always going to be someone that wants controll of something and to get that you have to beat up a lot of people.

Right, yep. But the reasons Americans go to war, especially the Iraqi war, is completely bogus. Let's face it, going head first into another nation that is ran by a heap of wacko's isn't a very efficient way of going about bringing globalization and peace. And to follow, the rest is a complete subversion!

[Freak]

I'm kinda hoping for a very bad recession/depression. It will force people to slow down their lives and appreciate simplicity. Radical, maybe, but there is a peacefulness to it.

I agree KM any party that fights over war is ironic and sad.

[kenney]

Originally Posted by chrispghmuscle

What's killing the ecomony is the USA rebuilding the schit we destroy over there.. WTF.. we have stuff over here that needs attended to.. Schools, Health Insurance and we are spend trillions to fix what we blow up.. wtf..

Our forces are abroad because in the long run it generates money for our governments. stealing foreign land, rich in oil and natural resources is brilliant for us (apparently) because it makes our already greedy lifestyles even more luxurious.

I really fail to see the intense negativity surrounding the economic crisis. losing your jobs is pretty bleak yes, but how many people do you know that are now starving to death because of it? like Freak said, if money is so tight, you will make sacrifices. at the end of the day, i know i can STILL come home to a plate of food and i still have little luxuries. if it wasnt for the media (which feeds off of fear) i believe hardly any of us (maybe none) would even know there was a recession - except for those of you that keep a close eye on the economy

[Freak]

I'd like to know what sacrifices has anyone here had to make? That is an honest, and in good faith question that I would like everyone to answer.. lets see how many really do!

Everyone here can obviously still afford internet (unless you access solely from library, work, or school and do not have the internet at home which I highly doubt). People are still buying gym memberships, tan, supplements, food - protein rich food which is more expensive), steroids - if that applies to you.

The big time job losses are from the financial/banking sector. Fine, most in that area are educated and can adapt and find a new job like everyone else.. it all comes back to personal responsibility. Don't live beyond your means and have a back up savings plan.

If times are bad you are eating soup and day old bread lighting your house with candle..

I second what Kenney said, most people probably wouldn't even know the economy is bad if it wasn't for the media. Gas prices are good right..?

If you wanna complain on how the economy is so bad and get me to have compassion for your its not gonna happen and I'm starting to think this is just a thread people can complain together and feel comfort that people feel sorry for them when they have absolutely no reason to but I guess we will see when people list the sacrifices they have made.

Threads like these are great because it allows people to share perspectives but I encourage you to look beyond yourself and realize, we live in America (most of us) and if you don't you live in an industrialized economy, you can still afford more than the essentials, and you don't have to worry where your next meal is coming from.

"One person in every eight world-wide experiences persistent hunger." (693)

"One child dies of starvation every 7 seconds." (693)

"1/5 of the world's 6 billion people have no land and no possessions at all. They are the "poorest poor." (696)

"They survive on less than $1 a day each, they lack clean drinking water, and they cannot read or write. The average U.S. house cat receives twice as much protein every days as one of these people, and the cost of keeping the cat is greater than such a person's annual income." (697)

There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed. - Gandhi

It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver. - Gandhi

Reference:

Whitney, Eleanor and Sharon Rolfes. Understanding Nutrition. Belmont: Wadsworth, 2005.

[gringo220]

I agree but disagree. I agree a lot of people live beyond their means but not everyone does. The ones tat do live beyond help support the other people in a way. I'm in the construction industry and we feel it more then most. It's not like anything we do is cheap or something that someone can just splurge on like an ice cream or something. If someone has to file bankruptcy then they don't have a house to fix up and that's one less potential job. If they can keep their house then it's by the skin of their teeth and can't afford to redo their kitchen or get a new driveway.

Now lets take my brother for instance. He works loading new ford cars onto trains after they come off the line. He was making about 17 per hour about 6 months ago but ever since the economy started to slow down they were producing less cars. He still does the exact same job now as he did 6 months ago but they changes the title of his position and now he makes 12 per hour. He didn't live beyond his means because he was making a set hourly rate but because of some stupid paper work he's making less now for the exact same thing. He ended up loosing his truck because of the pay cut. 5 dollars per hour is a hard hit to take and he needed a place to live and had to decide what to let go. It was a shame because he had a nice truck to.

So just because some live on overtime and credit cards doesn't mean everyone does. I know the economy sucks right now and so does most of my friends because we're all in the construction business. And so does my brother who thought he was set making his normal wages, guess not. Now I could have told you the economy was hurting a long time ago without the media. It didn't scare me at all but I can tell when things get tough because of what I do.

As for sacrifices go. I got rid of my truck and got a cheaper one. I downgraded my cell plan. I dropped the diet I was on because it was a lot of money to buy all the food. I sold a bunch of stuff that I had saved up and bought. I have 3 bottles of test sitting there not being used because I won't spend the money on my pct, which sucks.

I do have the internet. I do go to the gym. I don't go out to the bars. I don't go on senseless shoping sprees. I don't have many hobbies but everyone needs to have one thing and mine just happens to be the gym. And 25 a month is a lot cheaper then a good night at the bar. While I'm home I use the net to do things for work. I have to email things to people, look up garage packages, find certain things for jobs and so on so it's not just for fun. I need to have it from time to time but I can't just buy it on the days I need it.

A bad economy effects everyone from the top down. People have to make money in order to spend it so others to live. Now I know we have it better then most but we can't compare us to them. We have lived here our whole life and things here run differently. And right now it's not the normal economy we're used to.

[Freak]

Have you looked for other jobs either full time or something on the side to bring in extra income? I'm not judging you I'm just asking from the point of view that construction is 1. a hard labor job that you can't do forever and 2. It is cyclical with the markets.

What year and how much money was your brother's truck btw? Like does he really need a truck to do the type of work he does...

I can certainly compare us to them; we are all human.

Sorry to hear about your and your brother and I have respect that you have made sacrifices and made choices to decrease spending.

Live simply, live well.

[gringo220]

It was a 2004 f150 harley davidson edition. He didn't pay a whole lot for it, he got a good deal on it. I have applied for a few jobs but didn't get them. They were full time jobs. I tried to get into the union construction but they got more laid off then they have working and my cousin is a head guy for one company and still couldn't do anything. I plow snow part time for a buddy of mine during the winter. And we are all human but in two different parts of the world and with completely different ways of living. We as americans worked for the way this country is and they have worked for their ways of life.

[KM]

The sacrifices may not be major, but it's affecting everyone. Whether it's a lot or a little, it's still a change in everyone's daily life. And being an American, we don't adapt to change very well.

Originally Posted by kenney

I really fail to see the intense negativity surrounding the economic crisis. losing your jobs is pretty bleak yes, but how many people do you know that are now starving to death because of it? like Freak said, if money is so tight, you will make sacrifices. at the end of the day, i know i can STILL come home to a plate of food and i still have little luxuries. if it wasnt for the media (which feeds off of fear) i believe hardly any of us (maybe none) would even know there was a recession - except for those of you that keep a close eye on the economy

Kirk! What's up, how ya been kid.

But although other countries, like England, are affected by this, it's nowhere near comparable to the recent changes in the US. As of now, the economic crisis is probably over publicized by the media, but in reality if you look around you see less people in malls or grocery stores, less people on the road and more consultation about people losing jobs.

I think it has to do with perspective and current economic status for the most part, but in general, it's effecting everyone.

[Freak]

How has it affected you KM? That's good you see less people at malls it means they are buying less of things they don't need.

[KM]

Originally Posted by Freak

How has it affected you KM?

My father is self employed and my mother works in the clothing industry. My father has seen a declination of clients and my mother's hours have been cleaved in half. So, consequently I'm affected by this, regardless if it's severe or not.

That's good you see less people at malls it means they are buying less of things they don't need.

No, that's not good! If people don't buy those meaningless items, the economy continues to follow that slippery slope to a crash. How do you expect a reconstitution of the economy if no one places any effort in rebuilding it?

[Freak]

They are being things they don't NEED. There has to be a balance between spending to support the economy and overextending your credit via credit cards. People overextending themselves is the exact reason the economy is the way it is.

[kenney]

hey Kev, i will drop you a pm.

well i acknowledge that yes the current situation is very bleak, but we are still here! lol there will always be something that is destroying the world. i wouldnt go as far as to say that this is an economic 'crisis' as it is portrayed. yes, it is affecting everyone, but not to the extent that it is believe. my job is hanging by a thread also because of it, my father has had to look for a new job, my step mums work is practically non existent. but because my step mum (like many other people) is very materialistic. she has to have the latest fashion, nice car, new music etc. the more that these things are portrayed as essential, the more the brainwashed masses will believe it and so the more they pull out all the stops to buy them! as Gringo said, it is not everyone that has these particular traits, but it is the vast majority, and because of the majority, the minority suffer

[KM]

Originally Posted by Freak

They are being things they don't NEED. There has to be a balance between spending to support the economy and overextending your credit via credit cards. People overextending themselves is the exact reason the economy is the way it is.

I understand your point, but many people have a demand for what's in these malls. Food, clothing and technological companies feed off of consumption and fortune, otherwise they too will foreclose and go out of business just like everyone else.

E.g., Circuit City. The company authorized bankruptcy a month ago because the company's stocks were on a rapid decline. If people sense a company's misfortune, they won't buy from them knowing the risk of being unable to return or, even, ask to acquire a product that requires a warranty. Furthermore, people won't invest in a corrupt company, such as CC. Multiply this occurrence by how many companies that went belly up, you have a recessive economy.

But like you said, it's cyclic. And what goes around comes around... unfortunately.

[gringo220]

I agree. Malls are full of stuff that people might need but are full of stuff they don't also. I agree with km here though. If they're not spending money either on the stuff they need or not, the economy won't come around.

[Freak]

Yeah there is demand for it and that is kinda the problem. If you can't afford something you should lower your demand instead of just going for it because you have a credit card and focus primarily on the items you need such as food, water, shelter. Everyone has clothes we aren't in Somolia so I didn't list it...

[gringo220]

True but not everyone is spending it all on credit cards. A lot have a little play money but just aren't spending it right now. If unemployment could get back down to 2-3% then things would be a lot better but we need demand before anyone can supply and deliver.

[Freak]

They need to save it because most people 1. don't have a savings and 2 don't have a emergency back up (separate from a savings acct).

I agree the employment rate does play a factor and that sucks but I don't think anyone is "suffering."

[gringo220]

Not suffering but not in good shape. It's hard for some to have a nest egg saved up. I know a lot of newly weds that bought a house, had a baby, both work, have daycare, every day bills, utilities, food, baby supplies, gas, insurance, and what ever it takes to live. It's hard for people to save up money when you have that much on their plate. Not that they don't want to but they simply just can't save a nest egg because they don't have the extra money to save. It's hard for new couples to start out and especially if every industry is cutting back on it's workforce.

[Freak]

But should they have had the kid if they don't have a savings? Now that it has happened yeah its definitely hard. I'm not trying to escape reality I'm just saying focus more on contingency plans than living in the here and now. I think Americans feel a sense of entitlement and are spoiled.

[gringo220]

**** happens sometimes. And some people don't always know how expensive it is to have kids until they actually have one. And even if they did have saved up some savings and then had a kid, what if something happened? What if they needed the money they saved up? Then they're back in the same situation they're in right now. Not being able to save up any money because they need it. unless you make some good money, don't have kids or have your house/cars paid off saving money isn't always that easy. It's nice if it can be done and some that can do it don't but some just can't. It costs a lot to just live a daily life these days.

[KM]

Originally Posted by Freak

But should they have had the kid if they don't have a savings? Now that it has happened yeah its definitely hard. I'm not trying to escape reality I'm just saying focus more on contingency plans than living in the here and now. I think Americans feel a sense of entitlement and are spoiled.

So essentially you're saying people shouldn't start a family if they aren't financially secure? If so, then most people wouldn't be starting families, period. People are absolutely suffering, whether it's directly or indirectly is inapplicable, people are still affected which is what's being centralized here. If they weren't, the economic crisis wouldn't be as publicized as it is today.

Not one person is, and will be desensitized by this entire extravaganza.

I think Americans feel a sense of entitlement and are spoiled.

I agree, our sense of suffering is other's wealth!

And as a whole maybe, but in actuality America is a conspicuous cry for help. We're either terrified of others globalizing because of the threat of nationalism, or we're ignorant. In an effort to not be patriotic, what we gained we deserved. But we never stop there, we always want more which just one of the several problems.

[Freak]

That is exactly what I am saying. Do not start a family if you are financially insecure. EXACTLY!!!! That greatly increases the chances of the cycle of poverty. Everyone wants to give their children a better life than they have, everyone, that is absolute. To have a kid and not be financially secure it irresponsible and downright inexcusable.

It's not that they wouldn't be having kids its that they would organize their priorities and simply wait a few years to have children.

Being affected and suffering are two way different things.