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100% pure fructose before bed?
Old 01-25-2009, 03:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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As many of you know I have been a large opponent of fructose. With that said I think I might have found a legitimate use for it.

Take 100% fructose before bed. Then you get very little insulin secretion but fill the liver glycogen for steady blood sugar levels throughout the night. I know the liver is heavily involved in amino acid metabolism so I'm not sure exactly how the two would conflict but just a thought. I know fructose doesn't suppress ghrelin or raise leptin but I'm just thinking in terms of very little insulin secretion. Is there something I am missing?
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Doesnt fructose rob the body of its vitamins and minerals to get itself for physiological use?
I ask that because when you sleep those vitamins and minerals are going to be important to the recovery process,
where im coming from is how important are the vitamins and minerals going to be vs the glycogen replacemeant etc

I guess a lot could depend on what time you do your workouts

Im interested to learn more about this
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I thought fructose was bad at night and we needed to eat protein and a good fat source?
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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can only find out by tryin it bros
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Someone tell me a good fructose source? Is it Fruit or a simple carb /sugar?
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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fructose is a simple sugar. Fruits vary in ammounts probably the highest natural concentration of fructose would be honey.
I've already expressed my opinion to freak that i think it would depend on the rest of the diet and if i genuinely felt that the liver would need glycogen replenishment by then. The whole idea is to restore the livers glycogen (which is dominently what is used while sleeping), so that theres less chance of becoming catabolic at night. I really dont see this as a major issue, if your consuming a reasonable amount of carbs throughout the day
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Fructose browns food more readily (Maillard reaction) than with glucose. This may seem like a good idea, but it is not.

The Maillard reaction, a browning reaction, happens with any sugar. With fructose it happens seven times faster with than glucose, results in a decrease in protein quality and a toxicity of protein in the body.

This is due to the loss of amino acid residues and decreased protein digestibility. Maillard products can inhibit the uptake and metabolism of free amino acids and other nutrients such as zinc and some advanced Maillard products have mutagenic and/or carcinogenic properties. The Maillard reactions between proteins and fructose, glucose, and other sugars may play a role in aging and in some clinical complications of diabetes.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Im thinking maybe its not such a good idea
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Our internal body temperature doesn't get to 310F. :) You have a point about the chelation of zinc though.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If you are taking the fructose in from good fruits then there shouldn't be a problem if you had some with a slow digesting protein source and some fat. I wouldn't take in like large amounts of straight fructose at night. There may be some situations where this may be optimal, but for the most part I would avoid any type of sugar late at night. Also if you are taking in decent amount of carbs your liver glycogen should be fine, correct?
 
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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average body temp is 98.6F or 37C
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Our internal body temperature doesn't get to 310F. :) You have a point about the chelation of zinc though.
Gah yea i just skim read that and saw the bit about zinc,

I guess you could get away with it if you felt you had to but you may need to be supplementing with ZMA's and Multi Vitamins would that be a reccommendation?
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I just take a general multi-vitamin. I'm aware of normal body temp I was just making a point that the Maillard reaction wouldn't apply. Grambo you are correct if sufficient carbs were ingested but this is not always the case; depends on the diet.

Why do you say fruits would be better than straight fructose?
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I just take a general multi-vitamin. I'm aware of normal body temp I was just making a point that the Maillard reaction wouldn't apply. Grambo you are correct if sufficient carbs were ingested but this is not always the case; depends on the diet.

Why do you say fruits would be better than straight fructose?
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I mean that just health wise the fruit would provide tons of extra benefits along with the fructose. I am just not a huge fan of taking straight monosacchrides.
 
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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But fructose isn't going to raise blood glucose to any real extent whereas fruits will. That is specifically my point for 100% pure fructose to refill glycogen stores yet cause no real rise in insulin.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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After seeing this post i reread your big Fructose post and a number of the sources that paper cited. It seems that there was an allowable range of fructose that could be ingested, something like 20g or so a day that was considered "normal" in our history of consumption, and most of that came from fruits. Regardless of where it comes from there seems to still be a gram limit that tips it from being beneficial to damaging.

That being said, I also came across the "hibernation" diet and several of it's supporters/detractors that think it's the best thing since sliced bread to have honey before bedtime to "sleep off the pounds of fat" or the quickest way to "add pounds of fat". There were several discussions dating back a number of years about it being ingested on it's own and with a "mixed meal". No real yea or nay on which meal set up was better but it tended to depend on your body type. Couldn't find any really unbiased sources on the diet.

I don't know if I can really see it as a benefit the though.

However I have been a Gatorade guy (whose switching to that waxymaize stuff-still have questions about it though) whose usual pwo meal was right before bed and saw gains in my bulk phase and no sleep or GI issues. However, if we want to give it a go, I wouldn't mind testing your theory with honey out for a bit (since I'm mainly cutting atm).

Hmm wonder if jelly beans are a good source of fructose?
 
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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But fructose isn't going to raise blood glucose to any real extent whereas fruits will. That is specifically my point for 100% pure fructose to refill glycogen stores yet cause no real rise in insulin.
Depends on how much we are talking I suppose. I am intuitively against it but I a open to hear some more about it and will go do some research. I am more inclined to lean toward natural methods in nutrition hence my fruit suggestion. And if you did it with protein and fat the insulin spike would be blunted as well.

I understand what you are saying about the 100% fructose and insulin and makes since science wise....just not sure it would real world. I am not discounting it completely though. It is an interesting proposal.
 
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks. It was just an idea, like you said I'm not sure how it would turn out. Worth a try though. I wouldn't put any other carbs in with it.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Here is something to think about. These are quotes from probably the top Nutritionist in the Nation. I enjoy and agree with him on most things.

1. He is talking about a diet the guy that wrote Freakanomics did where he drank Fructose water almost exclusively.

Nationally known nutritionist and weight loss expert Jonny Bowden, who I was able to reach today at home, puts it succinctly.

"Fructose is the most damaging of sugars. It raises triglycerides and creates insulin resistance using a different pathway than normal," he told me.

"Sure, fructose has a low-glycemic index, but every nutritionist worth his salt has learned that its glycemic index is irrelevant to the extensive damage that it causes," Bowden, who is the iVillage.com "Weight Loss Coach" and author of Living the Low Carb Life: Choosing the Diet that's Right for You, from Atkins to the Zone.

2. Excerpt from his book "Living the Low Carb Lifestyle"

Q: Is fructose ok?

A: No. Fructose doesn't raise blood glucose levels a lot so it used to be thought the best sweetener for diabetics. Bad idea. Even though it doesn't raise blood sugar very fast it has shown to cause insulin resistance in both humans and animals. Fructose is turned into fat in the liver which raises your triglycerides.

3. Might as well throw in a study to back it all up

Fructose, weight gain, and the insulin resistance syndrome1,2,3
Sharon S Elliott, Nancy L Keim, Judith S Stern, Karen Teff and Peter J Havel


view explores whether fructose consumption might be a contributing factor to the development of obesity and the accompanying metabolic abnormalities observed in the insulin resistance syndrome. The per capita disappearance data for fructose from the combined consumption of sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup have increased by 26%, from 64 g/d in 1970 to 81 g/d in 1997. Both plasma insulin and leptin act in the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy homeostasis. Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic ß cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate. Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models. The data in humans are less clear. Although there are existing data on the metabolic and endocrine effects of dietary fructose that suggest that increased consumption of fructose may be detrimental in terms of body weight and adiposity and the metabolic indexes associated with the insulin resistance syndrome, much more research is needed to fully understand the metabolic effect of dietary fructose in humans.

WHEW!
 
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I know all that, check out the fructose sticky. It doesn't exclusively turn to fat only when liver glycogen is full. He is talking about fructose's ability to bypass phosphofructokinase - the rate limiting enzyme in glycolysis.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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My bad just putting info out there. How do we know if our liver glycogen is for sure full or not?
 
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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That's the problem :(
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Ahhhhh haha.....Yes that would be. Hmmmm
 
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Damm no jelly beans then?
 
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:57 PM   #26 (permalink)
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So maybe I was on the right track with the yogurt and dates before bed hehehe.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:21 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Absolutely not. I'm talking 100% pure fructose. Not fruit of any kind. 100% Pure Fructose by SwanSon Vitamins Buy 100% Pure Fructose 900 grams
With that said it doesn't suppress ghrelin or raise leptin and it bypasses phosphofructokinase so its like is it really worth it... no probably not. Thanks for all the feedback. I encourage more if anyone has any other perspectives. Thanks!
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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^ Yeah I know you meant pure fructose I'm just saying right track haha.
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^^^Working on a 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 deadlift at 165. Check it out in my log^^^

“Why are you doing dumbbell curls on a Bosu ball with one leg bent and your eyes closed while whistling Dixie?”
Go squat!
 
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:22 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Not sure if anyone posted this yet but here is some scary stuff :

Foxnews.com

Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury

Wednesday, January 28, 2009

FOXNews.com - Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News

Might just rethink some of this thread.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:27 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks for the post!! Sounds like poor science but something to look into.
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