[Merkwürdigeliebe]

last time I went to the gym, I was arguing a bit with my two friends about being able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time

from all the readings I could find, I've found that gaining muscle and losing fat simultaneously is not possible or very close to impossible

my reasoning behind this is that in order to lose fat mass, you HAVE to be at a total caloric deficit. Your must consume less food energy than your body burns in a day for you to be able to lose weight.

Your body won't utilize stored-energy until immediate energy (from food) is depleted, so there's a catch 22, once your food energy is depleted, there's no resources to rebuild torn muscle and gain muscle mass

so I can't understand where this logic from my friends has come from - have they been misguided or am I completely wrong?

[Badass_forever]

That is true, i am going threw this right now. 4 30pm i lift, and 9pm i go back for cardio!

But to keep as much size as possible, you must still try and lift as much as possible.

[Merkwürdigeliebe]

well, the cardio might be improving your cardio-vascular performance, but I don't think it's burning fat (that is, assuming you are eating enough to gain muscle mass) your muscles recover over night whilst you sleep, so if you're doing the cardio at 9pm (with the goal of losing fat) you'd have to get yourself to a caloric deficit in which case you wouldn't be gaining muscle mass afterwards...

I don't know, I just don't see how it would work tbqh


it's also important to note that what might seem like fat-loss at first might actually just be your body dropping retained water, which'll happen when you do cardio/lifting because of an increased need to drink more water

[quackattack]

personally I dont think it is impossible, but your body will not optimully burn fat and gain muscle simotaneously. I think for say a beginner lifter when they initially hit the gym they will have quick gains in muscle mass, which will improve their metabolism and in turn burn a little bit of fat. I know that's what happened to me when I first started training.

But IMO if you want to optimully gain muscle and burn fat you have to do them in seperate stages, bulking then cutting obviously.

[ZackKnight]

It's impossible

you either cut, bulk, or maintain

[undertaker610]

Obviously,
to gain muscles you have to consume more calories than you burn
and for losing fat you have to consume less.But there is a more important thing many people dont realise.You need to be in anabolism or catabolism thoughout the whole day.Of course with a proper diet anabolism goes to gain muscles mostly and catabolism for fat.You can be in the same phases in the same day but it is better to be in one phase for a good amount of time.Our body needs time to react.Sometimes real hypertrophy of muscle can start after the second month of a bulking phase.
Maintaining your gains is very important als,you cannot gain or lose weight all
the time.

[ZackKnight]

dude, going catabolic your body tends to feed more off of muscle as well. This is cuz ur body wants to keep as much fat as possible for the possibility of you having to go extended times without eating.

[ZiR RED]

I've seen it only under the following scenario's:

1. A beginner trainee, generally in their teens, following a good exercise and nutrition program.

2. A beginner to intermediate trainee, who is carry a substantial amount of excess body fat (>25%) will experience this until the reach around 15-18%

3. A trainee on drugs.

Br

edit/revise: I just wanted to expand upon part 3.

First, its not likely everyone will make these changes just because they are using enhancements. A user on their first cycle who is further away from their natural limit will see more of these changes than one who is more experienced and has made more progress.

Secondly, most experienced users know that results will be a great deal more dramatic if they choose one road or the other, and like LBJ said, either set your goals to gain muscle mass or loosing fat.

BrPt2

[lil_big_junior]

I didn't wan to get involved in this thread;

But it's either ONE OR THE OTHER. You either cut or bulk, there's no way one can bulk & cut at the same time. You can shed fat whilst gaining a bit of mass on a low calorie diet by replacing carbs for higher amounts of proteins, but it won't be worth all the hard work, you're only shooting yourself in the foot. If you're bulking, you stick to it. If your cutting, you stick to that. Remember the word K.I.S.S...KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

[mumble2mumble]

awesome response l.b.j and red

[empire]

Everytime this topic is discussed I always cringe. I do not claim to be an expert on this, and I hate posting behind the likes of Zack and Red because they are more knowledgeable than I. But I think in order to argue for or against this you have to set a few guidelines, and I think Red basically has done that already when he talked about the BF %, but still, I don't like to say it can't be done. My argument is for the average person who lifts to stay in great shape and improve muscle mass, but doesn't have to cut for a competition.

To make a long story short on my experience, I was having health problems and had to stop working out for about 2 years, give or take a few months. I gained 40 pounds of fat from my previous athletic build and lost muscle mass. I just recently got back into it about 4 months ago. I went back and forth about the best way for me to lose that weight and put back on my muscle mass. I have been an avid reader of fitness magazines and websites for about 4 years, but I decided that I was going to try to do both at the same time. Because my bodyfat percentage had risen so much higher, I felt it was possible I could do both up to a certain point. I am by no means a competitive bodybuilder, I just love lifting weights and like to keep a strong physique.

I truly believe that up to a certain point, this can be done. I give you and example. Please note I have a naturally skinny build, building muscle mass does not come easy to me, all through sports I had tall, slender build, despite strength.

I am 6'3" tall, have a wide waistline by nature, and 24 years old.

Starting Measurements
Weight: 240 lbs.
Waistline: 45 inches (size 38 pants)
Arms: 14 inches

Current Measurements
Weight: 198 lbs.
Waisteline: 40 inches (size 36 pants)
Arms: 15 inches


I believe that anyone who looks at those numbers will agree I was able to do both at the same time; like Red said, up to a certain bodyfat percentage it can be done. I wish I had bodyfat readings for you and more measurements, but those were the only ones I took before I started. If I had to guess, I would say I am around 15% percent bodyfat right now, just an estimate. The next couple of months are going to be interesting for me as I continue.

I realize that eventually this will plateau, but that is fine with me. Like I said, I am not trying to get down to a cut for a competition. I will say that I agree it definately slows down my progress, but people are very capable ofdoing both at the same time as long as they diet properly and are not trying to get down to 5% bodyfat.

I am not trying to argue with anyone who previously posted, I just feel like guidelines have to be set. Are we talking about someone trying to prepare for a competition or someone who is trying to stay healthy and look good? Too many people use bulking as an excuse to eat poorly while they try to get big, and that's just wrong. You can still eat to bulk but keep a good figure, it is just takes more concentration and harder work. These are just my opinions and come from my own experiences, maybe I'll get flamed, but if any new-comers who may be in my pre-diet position, this would be a depressing thread to read and very disheartening to the cause. I just want to make it clear that you can still be successful as an everyday, non-competitive bodybuilder and do both at the same time, up to a certain point.

[bgd_gym-er]

yes it is possible to do both, with proper timing of nutrients and training... not simultaneously as in same day, but in same week - sure why not... you could be gaining mass for 5 days in a week, then try to cut fut for 2-3 days for example... tried it, this works, even on low body fat...

some might argue this is not optimal way to go, i agree you might see better gains if stick with one or the other for a longer period, however, i hate putting any excess fat so try to stay in low BF all the time and still gain few pounds of muscle a year