[Thomas_Rivera]

Ahhh, can't cook, thats ok.

[battersea]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Ahhh, can't cook, thats ok.

hey come on ! have you tried cookin ya favorite take out new york meal at home,it aint never gona work maan.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Actually I have :P, Ive been cooking for myself for 2 years and I worked up to sous chef in a small restaurant I worked in so I pretty much pick up food I like to eat and make it. Not trying to insult you, but learning how to cook is a good tool.

[battersea]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Actually I have :P, Ive been cooking for myself for 2 years and I worked up to sous chef in a small restaurant I worked in so I pretty much pick up food I like to eat and make it. Not trying to insult you, but learning how to cook is a good tool.

ahh i got ya there,i was a chef de cuisine from 84 to 2000,in londons west end, while you were still a twinkle in da postmans eye ! and i can tell you,you cant make fisn n chips like greasy joe,s chipper,no way can,t b copied.

[williethepimp]

Hi, im a little concerned about this diet. ive begun this week and based on my individual needs i dont know if this is appropriate. my training split looks like this

Monday: Chest/Tris
Evening Basketball Game (HIIT)
Tuesday:Legs
Wednesday: HIIT Cardio/ Abs&Calfs
Thursday: Shoulders
Evening Basketball Practive (HIIT)
Friday: Conditioning sprints and agility training (HIIT)
Evening: Lower Back, Hamstrings&Glutes (with emphasis on compound lifts, posterior chain)
Saturday: Back&Biceps
Evening: Cardio(optional)
Sunday: Rest

I need to keep my conditioning and cardio training up for my basketball requirements and i like to be cardiovascular fit. Currently im 6'0 at 187lbs ive been consuming on average about 300 to 320g protein 60-70g Fat (Usually good, fish fat, nuts,flax seed and olive oil, furthermore ill find it difficult and uneccesary to increase my fat intake much more than this.) and about 60-70g Carbs.

I went for my usual HIIT 20 minute run today and felt really fatigued. I wil be able to maintain 60-70 carbs but i feel much lower would be too much for my needs. Can i still do this diet based on my training logs. Is my weekly carb intake too much for this?

Any Advice greatly appreciated
Thanks,

[JakeVendetta]

Too much protein cut it back to around .9g/lb, too many carbs cut them back to less then 30, and not enough fat. HIIT sucks on low carb diets and you will find that your performance isnt what it once was, and you really need to keep training to the point. If i were you i would refeed and start all over again with day 1. CKD as is, is not great for endurance atheletes, so if that is your goal then i would find a diffrent diet.

[islander]

If you want to maintain your cardio which you really need to seem to do this may not be the diet for you. Unless you are really needing to drop weight fast I would go with a regular cutting diet. 6'0 @187, you sound athletic so im guessing low bf already, unless you dont have alot of muscle, im not sure why you would want to go with this diet. Im almost on week 3 you feel fine doing everyday stuff but as soon as you hit the gym or anything that takes energy and needs stamina you feel your working 4 times as hard as you normal would just to do the same stuff.

[Thomas_Rivera]

I don't see why you don't find it necessary to increase fat, your fuel source while on CKD is fat. Fat should be around 60 percent of your total dietary intake. From your workout and goals this doesn't sound like a good diet for you at all.

Sprinting ability, power output and the such degrade the further into the week you get because of the low carb intake.

[Kevsworld]

CKD can be a very effective way to cut fat and keep muscle. It's about the only thing that works really well for me. Lyle McDonald's The Ketogenic Diet is the best book on the subject. I bought it ten years ago and I still use it as a reference (you can find a link to his books on my website).

[williethepimp]

cheers for the advice!

i suppose im always overly cautious of gaining body fat, im definately on the endomorphic side.. im pretty lean atm but am looking to go the next step and really get ripped....

when i was 18 i didnt do any resistance training and weighed about 286lbs, i was way overweight and i have managed to drop all that and in the process gain quite a lot of lean muscle mass. im 22 now and definately still learning.... so yeh thats why im looking for a good cutting diet that suits me. but yeh your right not much bf left to loose. i was reading here "fmoncas Natural Bodybuilding Training Log" and think that some of the aspects of his diet might be worth while for me..

[Kevsworld]

I'm partial to Lyle McDonald's books, but there's a lot of good authors out there. It's all about creating a negative calorie balance while keeping most (or all) of your muscle mass.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by williethepimp

cheers for the advice!

i suppose im always overly cautious of gaining body fat, im definately on the endomorphic side.. im pretty lean atm but am looking to go the next step and really get ripped....

when i was 18 i didnt do any resistance training and weighed about 286lbs, i was way overweight and i have managed to drop all that and in the process gain quite a lot of lean muscle mass. im 22 now and definately still learning.... so yeh thats why im looking for a good cutting diet that suits me. but yeh your right not much bf left to loose. i was reading here "fmoncas Natural Bodybuilding Training Log" and think that some of the aspects of his diet might be worth while for me..

It's a great diet, but you will have to work around it. While Lyles books are good, check out the Anabolic Diet.

[Avril18]

great post man thanks

[Gustavo G.]

Yeah great post indeed, should be a Sticky!

[boxing750]

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

this part confused me the (206g of fat)and the 640 is just from calories you should have from protein? but the 16 oz of beef i eat has 1160 calories so how does that work?

[Gustavo G.]

Not sure if I got it right, but in this case you should go for a leaner and less caloric meat like chicken breast. 16oz of chicken breast has 457calories and 104g of protein. You should wait for someone with more experience reply as well though!

[JakeVendetta]

Originally Posted by boxing750

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

this part confused me the (206g of fat)and the 640 is just from calories you should have from protein? but the 16 oz of beef i eat has 1160 calories so how does that work?

1160 Calories in your beef is not just from Protein its also from fat too. You want to figure out how much protein you need first for your bodyweight (Calculate your lean mass and use that) not just the example that was given. Then multiply the grams of protein by 4 too figure out how many Calories that would give you. Subtract that from your total Calories for the day and divide the left over Calories by 9 and that gives you how much fat you'll need for the day.

[HiMet4590]

only way i see this working is if you've been in a state of ketosis for an extended period of time. Everyones bodies are trained to run on sugars nowadays, even though we are supposed to run off of fat. So, in 5 days of no carbs our bodies are totally converted to running off of fat??? i cant say i believe that, seems like the very second you start your "carb up" your body switches right back to sugars and kills the ketones and you dont achieve the ketones again until the end of the week and then you just kill them again with the carb up. So, for the majority of the week your body is looking for sugars for fuel and since they arent in your daily diet its just going to steal them from your hard earned muscle, because i also have a hard time believing a weekend of carbs will make enough glycogen to last throughout the week or even the next day no matter how big of an insulin spike you get

i just cant see the logic in this

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by HiMet4590

only way i see this working is if you've been in a state of ketosis for an extended period of time. Everyones bodies are trained to run on sugars nowadays, even though we are supposed to run off of fat. So, in 5 days of no carbs our bodies are totally converted to running off of fat??? i cant say i believe that, seems like the very second you start your "carb up" your body switches right back to sugars and kills the ketones and you dont achieve the ketones again until the end of the week and then you just kill them again with the carb up. So, for the majority of the week your body is looking for sugars for fuel and since they arent in your daily diet its just going to steal them from your hard earned muscle, because i also have a hard time believing a weekend of carbs will make enough glycogen to last throughout the week or even the next day no matter how big of an insulin spike you get

i just cant see the logic in this

1. Bodies aren't "trained" to run on sugars. The body preferentially will use carbohydrates when they are available and will store some percentage thereof as glycogen to use for spurts of activity.

2. No, the body does not run purely off of fat in five days. The brain will run off of progressively more ketones until about the three week point where up to around 70 percent of the energy the brain requires is supplied by ketones and the remainder is provided by glucose. The rest of the body will run off of the breakdown of FFAs.

3. During the carb up the body does not immediately start to switch it's gears to only using glucose, during a carb up the body will still burn fat more so than on a regular diet.

4. The reenterance into ketosis does not take another week full ketosis can be reachieved within 24-48 hours of the carb up.

5. The carb up super compensates glycogen levels far beyond that of normal levels.

The only period where the body will be more dependent on carbs than fats is the initial first week where ketosis is induced. And glucose is a part of the daily diet, on the low end 20-30 carbohydrates and on the higher end up to fifty a day.

[HiMet4590]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

1. Bodies aren't "trained" to run on sugars. The body preferentially will use carbohydrates when they are available and will store some percentage thereof as glycogen to use for spurts of activity.

2. No, the body does not run purely off of fat in five days. The brain will run off of progressively more ketones until about the three week point where up to around 70 percent of the energy the brain requires is supplied by ketones and the remainder is provided by glucose. The rest of the body will run off of the breakdown of FFAs.

3. During the carb up the body does not immediately start to switch it's gears to only using glucose, during a carb up the body will still burn fat more so than on a regular diet.

4. The reenterance into ketosis does not take another week full ketosis can be reachieved within 24-48 hours of the carb up.

5. The carb up super compensates glycogen levels far beyond that of normal levels.

The only period where the body will be more dependent on carbs than fats is the initial first week where ketosis is induced. And glucose is a part of the daily diet, on the low end 20-30 carbohydrates and on the higher end up to fifty a day.

yea i guess i can see it getting progressively better from week to week into the diet, i just go alot of objectable views from
http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...teresting.html
that article made me want to switch to full keto and completely remove carbs from my diet, but i doubt I'd be able to put on any muscle since i have a very fast metabolism and getting 4000 cals or so from just protein and fats doesnt seem possible to do everyday, so i know i'd shrink

[Thomas_Rivera]

It's very easy to get 4k+ calories on any keto diet. It's only a few pounds of meat with some nuts, oils and vegetables thrown in.

[Gustavo G.]

Nuts are kind of high in carbs aren't they??

[JakeVendetta]

not really. You dont count fiber so you subtract that right off the bat. You'll ussually end up with around 3g per serving.

[boxing750]

what carbs them are good to eat? I'm a little confused on that yest my body fat was 12% but i want to check it again today the trainers at the gym did it.

[Thomas_Rivera]

For a CKD you want to limit the amount of sugar you intake. You want stuff with a higher glucose ratio. Pretty much on non carb up meals you want to get in vegetables.

[islander]

I think its also pretty important to plan your workouts, one so you are doing alot of cardio the day after refeed to get yourself back in ketosis faster. Also most refeeds are 24 hrs not the whole weekend. Has there been any newer reasech done on ckd resently. Before so much seemed to speculative. What I worry about is what the long term effects could be from it. What do you guys think how have done it? I felt great and it worked great but I really felt I was messing with my system. Also think I became deficient in minerals and things. I think vegs is pretty important to incorporate but the lack of fruit of any kind makes me wary for some reason.

[Avril18]

i never did this diet before but it seems easy to do at least for me because im not a carb fan so i will give a try when i cut and as i saw in logs here and there it seems that u can actually build some muscle if play your cards right

[Avril18]

i have a question
it will better to restrict all your carbs immediatly or going slowly till you eat 20-30grams

[Thomas_Rivera]

I would just go down and go into it.

Long term wise, inuits eat a diet very similar but no carb load. With a multivitamin, the meat and carb sources there should be no mineral deficiencies.

[Kevsworld]

Just drop your carb intake to 20-30 grams a day. There's no reason to make the transition slowly. Eat plenty of fat--most of your calories should come from fat.