[transition97]

Hey guys,

I'm 20yrs old. Some of you know me, some don't.
To get the point, I went from 120lbs skinny to a steady 168lbs.

1RPM Bench Press was 135 and built up to 210. Still aiming to go higher.

I almost crossed over to the dark side. In my inventory I have a few diferent varieties of ProHormones. Some of you are familiar with Spawn by Myogenix. Also, I have Novedex XT and Methyl 1-D Test from GNC.

Enough about that, I am almost at a plateau. At 20 I know my test levels are at their peak. (Well till 23 even for some I guess)
But, with the effort I put forth and pathetic attempt at a high caloric intake. I'm starting to see no real progress. I am regimental about training, never miss a day. Maybe my size lacks from my varying diet.

I just started supplementing on the whole Gaspari Nutrition line. PLasmajet, Superpump, SizeOn, MyoFusion protein, you name it I got it. It has worked, it definitely has. But I want to be much bigger. I've made no real gains, and with all this natural young testosterone running through me, I feel like they should be better.
I obviously have some test, the gf's happy, my anger is to blame from military stuff mostly but a little from test. haha.[/B]

In other words, what the hell do I do? Is 20 too young for PH? My senses say yes. My ego says no. I want to amass true size. I need a revamping of sorts. Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

[HawaiianPride.]

Post your EXACT diet, your EXACT routine layout. And we can assess from there. I've only seen a few people reach their potential before their early 20's. Lets see how your layout goes and we can go from there.

Also, post your height and BF %.

As far as PH's go. I'm against them completely now. I've said it another thread a few minutes ago.. they are just as bad as taking an oral only cycle of AAS. Technically they are Steroids once they pass through the liver. So at your age, there has to be issues with diet, training, and or sleep habits for you not to be growing size anymore. To answer your last question, YES, 20 is too young to be altering your already high test levels. They will only be this high naturally for a couple more years, then when you get older you'll have to rely on medical scripts from Doctors to get on some sort of protocol because that's when your natural test levels will start to drop.

[projecthatch92]

Glad you posted this here. Consistency is key. as stated, post up your diet

[Kaboom]

wait! How the hell do you know you are "almost at a plateau"

"a pathetic attempt at a high caloric diet" you answered your question bro.Get your diet in check and you might see some gains

[transition97]

K be ready for this list. Haha..
You guys are both right. I appreciate your help with this topic. From fellow gym rat to gym rat, I definitely need guidance.

Chest(Mondays)
Warm-up
1RPM Flat Bench-Currently 210
Incline BP-8/8/8/8 145lbs (Negative Sets)
DB Bench Press-8/8/8/8 52.5 lbs
Incline DB Fly-8/10/10 40 lbs.
Decline BP- 8/8/8/8 145lbs (Negative Sets)

Abs

Tri's and Bi's(Tuesdays)
Warm-up
TRIS:
Close grip BP-8/8/8/8 145lbs.
Rope Pull Down-8/8/8/8 50lbs.
Overhead DB Extension-8/8/6/8 52.5lbs.
BIS:
BB Curl-8/8/8/8 75lbs
Incline DB Curl-8/8/8/8 35lbs 40lbs on a good day (with overexteniation)

Shoulders and Traps
Warm-up
Behind the neck OVHD Press:8/8/8/8 90lbs
Wide grip Upright Rows:8/8/8 115lbs.
Leaning lateral raises:8/8/8 25lbs.
Bent over Lat raise: 8/8/10 25lbs
Barbell Shrugs: 8/8/8 130lbs
DB Shrugs: 8/8/8 52.5lbs (These last two trap workouts I Superset)

Back
Wide Grip Pull up:8/8/8/8
Wide Grip Bent Over Row:8/8/8/8 105lbs
Wide Grip Behind Neck Pulldowns:8/8/8/8 90lbs.
Wide Grip Seated Cable Row:8/8/8 70lbs.
Straight Arm Pulldown:10/8/8 40lbs
DB Rows: Drop Sets 35lbs/25/15

Forearm workouts are on TRIS/BIS day

Legs, I am preparing for an Army fitness test so legs turn to a run day tomorrow.

My Diet I will post up tonight.
My protein intake is conistent.
25g whey in the morning before breakfast, after breakfast, noon, pre-workout, post-workout, and before bed on most days. I TRY. But when I map it all out the details will show for sure.

[transition97]

Originally Posted by Kaboom

wait! How the hell do you know you are "almost at a plateau"

"a pathetic attempt at a high caloric diet" you answered your question bro.Get your diet in check and you might see some gains

true man. When I said plateau I was referring to a "burn-out". Just trying to revamp my diet and excercises. I know consistency is key. I have been but I need to up my game.

[projecthatch92]

Originally Posted by transition97

K be ready for this list. Haha..
You guys are both right. I appreciate your help with this topic. From fellow gym rat to gym rat, I definitely need guidance.

Chest(Mondays)
Warm-up
1RPM Flat Bench-Currently 210
Incline BP-8/8/8/8 145lbs (Negative Sets)
DB Bench Press-8/8/8/8 52.5 lbs
Incline DB Fly-8/10/10 40 lbs.
Decline BP- 8/8/8/8 145lbs (Negative Sets)

Abs

Tri's and Bi's(Tuesdays)
Warm-up
TRIS:
Close grip BP-8/8/8/8 145lbs.
Rope Pull Down-8/8/8/8 50lbs.
Overhead DB Extension-8/8/6/8 52.5lbs.
BIS:
BB Curl-8/8/8/8 75lbs
Incline DB Curl-8/8/8/8 35lbs 40lbs on a good day (with overexteniation)

Shoulders and Traps
Warm-up
Behind the neck OVHD Press:8/8/8/8 90lbs
Wide grip Upright Rows:8/8/8 115lbs.
Leaning lateral raises:8/8/8 25lbs.
Bent over Lat raise: 8/8/10 25lbs
Barbell Shrugs: 8/8/8 130lbs
DB Shrugs: 8/8/8 52.5lbs (These last two trap workouts I Superset)

Back
Wide Grip Pull up:8/8/8/8
Wide Grip Bent Over Row:8/8/8/8 105lbs
Wide Grip Behind Neck Pulldowns:8/8/8/8 90lbs.
Wide Grip Seated Cable Row:8/8/8 70lbs.
Straight Arm Pulldown:10/8/8 40lbs
DB Rows: Drop Sets 35lbs/25/15

Forearm workouts are on TRIS/BIS day

Legs, I am preparing for an Army fitness test so legs turn to a run day tomorrow.

My Diet I will post up tonight.
My protein intake is conistent.
25g whey in the morning before breakfast, after breakfast, noon, pre-workout, post-workout, and before bed on most days. I TRY. But when I map it all out the details will show for sure.

IMO, throw out the behind the neck pulldowns. I've never liked those one bit. from what i read, you only do negatives on your bench?

[Ross01]

change around your rep/set schemes and exercises. concentrate on the compound movements for lower reps and base your training around that. Have a look at the max-OT style of training. Go heavier, you dont seem to be going heavy enough in the chest exercises in comparison to your 1RM (210 lb bench but only 50lb db presses) im sure that number can be increased. Cut out the negatives aswell mate, incorporate them into training once in a while. Too many exercises, cut them down to 3 for bigger muscle groups, maybey 2 for smaller ones. Cut out alot of the wide grip back exercises, mix it up, with a narrower grip you can go much heavier and i often find it to stimulate the major back muscles more because the stretch and range of motion is greater. Also, i noticed on a couple of exercises your last few sets consisted of higher reps than the first set. This shouldnt really happen if the weight stays the same, you should maintain or decrease reps due to fatigue. Whats the point of doing a set of 8 reps and then the next two sets of the same weight for 10 reps, this shows that its too light and your wasting valuable energy during your first set. Hope this helps mate!

[tps154]

'supplements' are meant to 'supplement' your diet and training.

change lifting styles and rework your diet. alot of times plateau is just because your body got used to the old sh*t. stick with the proven supps, and train hard

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by transition97

Hey guys,

I'm 20yrs old. Some of you know me, some don't.
To get the point, I went from 120lbs skinny to a steady 168lbs.

1RPM Bench Press was 135 and built up to 210. Still aiming to go higher.

I almost crossed over to the dark side. In my inventory I have a few diferent varieties of ProHormones. Some of you are familiar with Spawn by Myogenix. Also, I have Novedex XT and Methyl 1-D Test from GNC.

Enough about that, I am almost at a plateau. At 20 I know my test levels are at their peak. (Well till 23 even for some I guess)
But, with the effort I put forth and pathetic attempt at a high caloric intake. I'm starting to see no real progress. I am regimental about training, never miss a day. Maybe my size lacks from my varying diet.

I just started supplementing on the whole Gaspari Nutrition line. PLasmajet, Superpump, SizeOn, MyoFusion protein, you name it I got it. It has worked, it definitely has. But I want to be much bigger. I've made no real gains, and with all this natural young testosterone running through me, I feel like they should be better.
I obviously have some test, the gf's happy, my anger is to blame from military stuff mostly but a little from test. haha.[/B]

In other words, what the hell do I do? Is 20 too young for PH? My senses say yes. My ego says no. I want to amass true size. I need a revamping of sorts. Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

Before you start on PH's or other substances, try a workout designed around natural, non-gifted trainees. Buy Brawn and/or it's sequels by Stuart McRobert. Read, learn and apply.

I was in the same boat a few years back. After my initial gains, I tried everything from high calorie diets, protein/carb timing, change in rest time, change in routines, change in volume etc. I was working damn hard, nevertheless I failed to progress a single kg in any exercise and injured my elbow & knee. 2 years of that...Lesson learnt.

On another note, read this too, all of it.
The WeighTrainer - The Rules of Productive Weight Training for The Drug-Free Trainee

For a natural trainee to put on 5lbs of muscle a year is good progress. 5-6 years with that sort of progress, you could probably compete if you started at an average weight/bf%.

[Kentie1964]

I recommend do less arm exercises and add squats to arm day. Also, I'd add some deadlifts for back day and alternate Wide Grip Seated Cable Rows with Close Grip Seated Cable Rows. It really depends on how you're leverage is built.

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by transition97

K be ready for this list. Haha..
You guys are both right. I appreciate your help with this topic. From fellow gym rat to gym rat, I definitely need guidance.

Chest(Mondays)
Warm-up
1RPM Flat Bench-Currently 210
Incline BP-8/8/8/8 145lbs (Negative Sets)
DB Bench Press-8/8/8/8 52.5 lbs
Incline DB Fly-8/10/10 40 lbs.
Decline BP- 8/8/8/8 145lbs (Negative Sets)

Abs

Tri's and Bi's(Tuesdays)
Warm-up
TRIS:
Close grip BP-8/8/8/8 145lbs.
Rope Pull Down-8/8/8/8 50lbs.
Overhead DB Extension-8/8/6/8 52.5lbs.
BIS:
BB Curl-8/8/8/8 75lbs
Incline DB Curl-8/8/8/8 35lbs 40lbs on a good day (with overexteniation)

Shoulders and Traps
Warm-up
Behind the neck OVHD Press:8/8/8/8 90lbs
Wide grip Upright Rows:8/8/8 115lbs.
Leaning lateral raises:8/8/8 25lbs.
Bent over Lat raise: 8/8/10 25lbs
Barbell Shrugs: 8/8/8 130lbs
DB Shrugs: 8/8/8 52.5lbs (These last two trap workouts I Superset)

Back
Wide Grip Pull up:8/8/8/8
Wide Grip Bent Over Row:8/8/8/8 105lbs
Wide Grip Behind Neck Pulldowns:8/8/8/8 90lbs.
Wide Grip Seated Cable Row:8/8/8 70lbs.
Straight Arm Pulldown:10/8/8 40lbs
DB Rows: Drop Sets 35lbs/25/15

Forearm workouts are on TRIS/BIS day

Legs, I am preparing for an Army fitness test so legs turn to a run day tomorrow.

My Diet I will post up tonight.
My protein intake is conistent.
25g whey in the morning before breakfast, after breakfast, noon, pre-workout, post-workout, and before bed on most days. I TRY. But when I map it all out the details will show for sure.

Two problems from what I see:

A) No Leg Day. I see that you stated that you won't do legs due to an army run fitness test, but once you can I would do legs. Pick a day so it is far away from the test so any DOM's won't affect you. Maybe put Bi's with your back workout and tri's with your chest workout then do legs instead of your arm day. Seriously, with how many hormones are released following a good squat workout it will make your entire body get bigger, not just your legs.

B) I understand that you will be posting up your diet when you get the chance, but already with you placing an emphasis on having 6 protein shakes a day I am definitely predicting your "missing link" to be your diet. Ditch the protein shakes to two, post workout and maybe the other can be morning or just a random point in the day. Eat every 2 - 3 hours, and make sure it is not some "snack" meal. You are what you eat, and qouting HP's member of the month qoute I recall a while back "If you want to be healthy and big, then eat healthy and big".

Hopefully by following the advice posted here on BBD we can get you out of your plateau. And also, young padawan, I wouldn't call steroids or pro-hormones the dark side.

[ultra Tick]

SEMPER FIDELIS

DO LOWER REPS HEAVIER WEIGHT TRY NOT TO USE TOO MANY MACHINES CABLE MACHINE ARE OK THOUGH AND ALSO
20 IS TO YOUNG FOR PRO-HORMONES
WAIT UNTIL YOUR LIKE 30
OH
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOME GOOD MOTIVATION

[Kevsworld]

A few thoughts:
I don't believe Novedex is worth your time. There's a review of it on my blog if you want to check it out. I also don't like PH's--might as well use steroids if you are going to go that route.

But like the others have said, it's time to adjust your diet/training. Wait another five years before even thinking about going to the dark side.

[Bubbaloo]

I'm sorry this has nothing to do with the thread...but projecthatch, the gif in your sig is funny as **** dude hahahahaha

[projecthatch92]

thanks big man, i try my best

[transition97]

Originally Posted by Bubbaloo

I'm sorry this has nothing to do with the thread...but projecthatch, the gif in your sig is funny as **** dude hahahahaha

he always has great ones. the one big buff black guy, i don't know his name...haha


anyway thanks fellas for all the critiques and shared info.

My main thing now is do i eat dirty or like another poster said (thanks btw) eat big and healthy to be big and healthy. My metabolism is higher than most. I am bigger than most kids around here but not amassing the true size I want.

I'm in college so my diet is very sporatic depending on the day. Monday and Wednesday between 10AM-215PM I'm SOL on eating unless i make snacks.
PLus with the running I'm about to start having to do for my PT test, I want to ensure i eat more than enough versus calories burned on run days as well.

hatch, thanks for pointing it out, I got so caught up in fitness articles, my workout only had negative chest workouts. I read the Weiderman principles and away I went...lol.

Any more info regarding diet or critique or suggestion of my workout would be highly appreciated.
I am posting up a new workout I've collected from you all and other sources.

[transition97]

Who am I kidding? Mid-terms are over.. ha

here it is:

Monday:
Chest/Tris/Abs
DB BP 4SETS/8REPS Rest 1m
Cable X-Over 4/12 1m
Decline BP 4/8 1m
Decline Push up 3/F
superset
Push Up 3/F

Back/Bis/Forearms
Barbell Row 4/6
Pull Up 4/F
One Arm DB Row 4/10
Reverse Grip Lt Pulldown 4/8
Seated Cable Row 4/12

bis:
Barbell Curl 4/6
Incline DB Curl 4/8
EZ bar Cable curl 4/12
superset
Rope hammer curl 4/12

Forearms:
Barbell wrist curl 4/12
superset
BB Reverse Wrist Curl 4/12

more to come... gotta head to Publix for some food!

[Chimera]

As far as being a college student, I am a college student as well and I work 20 hours a week in a gym and as a personal trainer but I still make sure that I am able to eat every 2 - 3 hours. I am out all day so I have to cook my food the night before and pack it in a cooler. It all comes down to if there is a will to bodybuild, then there is a way.

[Ross01]

I would keep it simple with the rep ranges mate. Start your workout with a compound movement. i.e chest barbell or dumbell flat/incline press and lift really haeavy for low reps (i.e. 6) just focus on improving the weight over time and base the rest of the exercises around this, increasing the reps if you feel the need, adding supersets, dropsets etc. Do the same for back, legs, shoulders etc. I usually have 1 main exercise for each body part where i just concentrate on adding weight over time, sure you obviously want to increase the weight for every exercises, but im very strict about slowly adding weight onto these compound movements. Reduce the biceps volume aswell, especially after a back workout. Hope this helps

[transition97]

Originally Posted by Chimera

As far as being a college student, I am a college student as well and I work 20 hours a week in a gym and as a personal trainer but I still make sure that I am able to eat every 2 - 3 hours. I am out all day so I have to cook my food the night before and pack it in a cooler. It all comes down to if there is a will to bodybuild, then there is a way.

Yea man you're definitely right. I need to commit more. I have extreme focus and try to train to perfection, being very critical of every movement.
Ha sounds all Nat Geo. But I need to give much more attention to my diet

Side note: I knew a guy who went to Purdue. You know a football player named Byron Williams? May have already graduated. He was huuuge.

Thank you guys for all the tips, I am definitely writing this is in the workout bible. Any more would be MUCH appreciated!

[Cork]

Ok I've stayed out of this because a great deal of information has been said and I don't want to repeat it all... but I can't stay out any longer. How on earth are you all letting this guy get away with out working out legs?! Transition97, you should be tied to a pole and flogged for your transgression. The Army PT test is only 2 miles! You are avoiding working out a huge muscle group for a measly 2 mile run. All the test and GH release you are missing out on..I promise you if you start squatting you will not plateau any time soon.

Also, lifting legs will only help you run faster, here is something I read on elite FTS about a pissed off strength coach who couldn't understand why you wouldn't have your athletes train legs. This is a convo he overheard and his thoughts are in italics. This is merely belaboring my point, but if you don't even work out your legs, there is NO WAY you should even think about PHs and steroids.

Strength coach #1: I know that working on speed technique will help, but I think to make true progress, we need to develop strength.

Strength coach #2: No, people get faster all the time without lifting weights. Look at all those performance training centers. Many of them don’t even have weights.

Strength coach #1: Yes, but once we get technique down, how do we get faster without getting stronger?

Strength coach #2: Getting stronger really isn’t important in my system of training. Later we can add resistance by using parachutes or something like that.

Ok, if strength training isn’t important to getting faster, why do 100- and 200-meter sprinters, whose events rely on speed, utilize heavy strength training as a key ingredient in their training? Maybe the bodies of athletes in other sports don’t work the same as track athletes. So, strength training won’t work for them.

[transition97]

Originally Posted by Cork

Ok I've stayed out of this because a great deal of information has been said and I don't want to repeat it all... but I can't stay out any longer. How on earth are you all letting this guy get away with out working out legs?! Transition97, you should be tied to a pole and flogged for your transgression. The Army PT test is only 2 miles! You are avoiding working out a huge muscle group for a measly 2 mile run. All the test and GH release you are missing out on..I promise you if you start squatting you will not plateau any time soon.

Also, lifting legs will only help you run faster, here is something I read on elite FTS about a pissed off strength coach who couldn't understand why you wouldn't have your athletes train legs. This is a convo he overheard and his thoughts are in italics. This is merely belaboring my point, but if you don't even work out your legs, there is NO WAY you should even think about PHs and steroids.

Yeah man you're right. Thank you! That was a very to-the-point scenario with the coaches. Maybe I guess I haven't stepped it up as much as I should. I have only a DB and BB for exercises but that's no excuse.
Time to buy more weight!!!

Thanks Cork for putting it how it is man, I need to up my game!

I'm gonna post some pics up today, maybe a pre-workout slim jim@120lbs and now @168. Still a slim jim with a little more muscle. Again, no where NEAR what I want. Think Anothony Presciano from BSN maybe. That's the size I want

[BioBody]

Originally Posted by Ross01

change around your rep/set schemes and exercises. concentrate on the compound movements for lower reps and base your training around that. Have a look at the max-OT style of training. Go heavier, you dont seem to be going heavy enough in the chest exercises in comparison to your 1RM (210 lb bench but only 50lb db presses) im sure that number can be increased. Cut out the negatives aswell mate, incorporate them into training once in a while. Too many exercises, cut them down to 3 for bigger muscle groups, maybey 2 for smaller ones. Cut out alot of the wide grip back exercises, mix it up, with a narrower grip you can go much heavier and i often find it to stimulate the major back muscles more because the stretch and range of motion is greater. Also, i noticed on a couple of exercises your last few sets consisted of higher reps than the first set. This shouldnt really happen if the weight stays the same, you should maintain or decrease reps due to fatigue. Whats the point of doing a set of 8 reps and then the next two sets of the same weight for 10 reps, this shows that its too light and your wasting valuable energy during your first set. Hope this helps mate!

^^^Cosign...Also you may want to look at the time you rest in between sets and also you could analyze your form. Supplements help especially for quicker digestion/absorbtion and they will also help when trying to eat alot of calories. I have noticed that mixing solid meals with liquid meals helps to get in more calories while not having that bloated feeling. hope this helps