[Patmuscled!]

Hi guys, I'm interested in knowing some or all of the unconventional training techniques and philosophies that you employ or make use of in your quest to maximize progress in your bodybuilding goals.

We know much about the conventional training techniques and philosophies that were popularized by the bodybuilding media, pioneers, champion bodybuilders and self-proclaimed experts. From Arthur Jones to Joe Weider to Vince Gironda to Mike Mentzer to Charles Glass, we have been constantly bombarded with many different styles and approaches on how to train properly that are sometimes contradictory. Indeed, the bodybuilding media basically wants us to more or less follow the tried and tested traditional styles of traning.

But through trial and error, experimentation, resourcefulness, curiosity or sheer use of our intellect, what are the training techniques and philosophies do you have in your bodybuilding arsenal that have been sort of personalized or customized if there are any?

[crull]

for me its essential to switch between a bodybuilding and powerlifting routine every 12-16 weeks because i can gain mass very fast after i gained some strenght and its the other way around too

[Cork]

I just take the juice and get someone else to take the piss test for me.

[Demon Knight]

I would suppose the main turning point in my training was the focus on progress.

You may think "duh, that's obvious" but in all my article reading in my early days of bodybuilding, it was all about protein intake, frequency, supersets, muscle pumps, doing different exercises to hit the muscle from various angles etc. If you weren't getting bigger, you weren't training hard enough or you weren't eating enough. Brainwashed by the magazines and so-called experts, I ended spending almost 2 years on a very strict diet with very hard training sessions. Apart from tendinitis, I honestly did not gain a single lb of muscle. So it was back to the drawing board. What was I doing wrong? I was putting heart and soul into this, why am I not getting any returns?

I started reading more and came upon the writings of mcrobert, mccallum and others. I read about the drug use in bodybuilding, how genetics DO matter, how you should set realistic goals, how to have patience and finally how I should train. And the key to training: progress. You can't and shouldn't go 100% every training session but as a maximum effort, you should be able to lift more now than you did a year ago. If you can't, you are not building muscle. Period.

I suppose my "unconventional" bodybuilding philosophy is that my main goal is the progress of my lifts. Honestly, read a bodybuilding routine anywhere and I'm 99% sure it will tell you the reps you should do, the sets you should, the time you should take etc but it will not even mention (and it should in very big bold letters) "YOU MUST PROGRESS ON THE WEIGHT YOU CAN LIFT,OTHERWISE YOU ARE NOT GROWING".At most they'll say: Add weight when you can, and with the frequency and intensity they suggest, that's not going to happen for you average trainee.

[CaliKid]

I just listen to my body... I know that sounds super cliche but really its that simple... you sound like the kinda guy that does his research and is in tune with your body,well listen to it. I really dont know how else to explain it. Its kinda like the whole muscle-mind thing. Your body will tell you everything you need to know. Beisdes that follow these 3simple rules-

DISCIPLINE

DEDICATION

DETERMINATION

...it will get you everywhere

[BC_Boy]

For me knowledge is power. I got my fitness certification not particularly because I want to be a personal trainer but so I can use what I know to benefit me. For example. Although a lot of BB magazines are just filled with useless info that is just put in there to take up space I have found that if you can sort through all the ads and junk you can find some useful info but the key is KNOWLEDGE. For me that is my greatest asset and I use that to keep learning. By the way if any of you are wondering no I don't spend money on magazines, my gym is chalk full of teenagers who buy all the suuplements and magazines in hopes of looking like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman and always leave the mags behind

[Big MuMbO jUmBo]

i don't agree at all that if you dont gain strength you dont gain muscle....my training partner gained like 15 pounds from lifting the same weight all year! For me it isn't about training as much as it is nutrition...in my head this is how i see it....as long as you are tareing down your muscle no matter what exercises what workouts your doing as long as you get the proper nutrition to fill those tares back in your going to grow....thats my thought

[THE DISCIPLE]

i try to treat every workout like it will be my last. what i mean is that no matter the body part or type workout(light, heavy, hi volume,whatever)i try to train at maximum intensity. supersets giant sets drop sets forced reps etc every workout. that and eat like a beast every 2anahaf hours. visualize the bad ass i,m becoming oohra!

[Gorilla]

Originally Posted by THE DISCIPLE

i try to treat every workout like it will be my last. what i mean is that no matter the body part or type workout(light, heavy, hi volume,whatever)i try to train at maximum intensity. supersets giant sets drop sets forced reps etc every workout. that and eat like a beast every 2anahaf hours. visualize the bad ass i,m becoming oohra!

sory to bring this out to u dude but if do this u will simply overtrain this mean that u will never never grow big.......
likw the rest of the buys said knowlige is the power if u do not know what u r doing u r doing noting!
and second try to listen to ur body this is the key too its a cliche but u know cliches r true thisgs thats why the r cliches whetever........
all u need to know is when ur muscle is recovered if do know go and train eat whait to recover again and smae thing over and over!
but giving 100 persent every workout is not gonna work.......its not working for me i did a little experiment.............. u can try it too but its not working for me

[exxtraa]

Originally Posted by CaliKid

I just listen to my body... I know that sounds super cliche but really its that simple... you sound like the kinda guy that does his research and is in tune with your body,well listen to it. I really dont know how else to explain it. Its kinda like the whole muscle-mind thing. Your body will tell you everything you need to know. Beisdes that follow these 3simple rules-

DISCIPLINE

DEDICATION

DETERMINATION

...it will get you everywhere

this is what i go by... listening to your body is very important. knowning and feeling when you are overtraining, over eating, undereating and so forth is very important... research and knowledge is very importand as well because once you know how to listen to your body you upply the knowledge that you gathered by researching. and everybody is so different that one method wont work for everyone, people need to learn their body and apply what works best for them.

[THE DISCIPLE]

Originally Posted by Gorilla

sory to bring this out to u dude but if do this u will simply overtrain this mean that u will never never grow big.......
likw the rest of the buys said knowlige is the power if u do not know what u r doing u r doing noting!
and second try to listen to ur body this is the key too its a cliche but u know cliches r true thisgs thats why the r cliches whetever........
all u need to know is when ur muscle is recovered if do know go and train eat whait to recover again and smae thing over and over!
but giving 100 persent every workout is not gonna work.......its not working for me i did a little experiment.............. u can try it too but its not working for me

sorry mr gorilla. every ones body responds differently to different things. if you want to half ass it in the gym thats your business. theres so much more to it than that. u dont know my training split do u. 1 body part per day. thats it. 7 days to recover. balls out 100 percent. im 43 years old been training this way 2 years. every workout im stronger than the next, and i seem to be getting bigger weekly. i havent plateaud yet. pm my training partner. his pix are on here. see what he has to say about me and my style.his name is irish. good day

[Patmuscled!]

Originally Posted by BC_Boy

For me knowledge is power. I got my fitness certification not particularly because I want to be a personal trainer but so I can use what I know to benefit me. For example. Although a lot of BB magazines are just filled with useless info that is just put in there to take up space I have found that if you can sort through all the ads and junk you can find some useful info but the key is KNOWLEDGE. For me that is my greatest asset and I use that to keep learning. By the way if any of you are wondering no I don't spend money on magazines, my gym is chalk full of teenagers who buy all the suuplements and magazines in hopes of looking like Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman and always leave the mags behind

Magazine information are all helpful. I'm not here to assert my beliefs but obviously the information you get from magazines are all tried and tested by past and present champions and successful practitioners of bodybuilding. In my opinion, there is no sense in saying that magazine info are useless because it's totally the other way around.

The vast magazine info you get shared by successful bodybuilders and iron athletes who came before us always make sense to the majority. Majority of us won't look like Jay Cutler by following the training and nutritional advice from a bodybuilding magazine but it will definitely help us in reaching goals like gaining muscle, strength and losing fat. Probably ninety seven percent of bodybuilders all over the world are following training routines and techniques that were passed on to us from decades and decades of bodybuilding experience by bodybuilders in five or six different generations. All these vast information and knowledge are found in books and magazines. Literally thousands of people at one point have formally thanked and gave credit to bodybuilding magazines for changing their lives and physiques. Knowledge is power and one best way to gain knowledge is to gather as much info as you can from different sources and that includes books and magazines.

[Patmuscled!]

Originally Posted by Big MuMbO jUmBo

i don't agree at all that if you dont gain strength you dont gain muscle....my training partner gained like 15 pounds from lifting the same weight all year! For me it isn't about training as much as it is nutrition...in my head this is how i see it....as long as you are tareing down your muscle no matter what exercises what workouts your doing as long as you get the proper nutrition to fill those tares back in your going to grow....thats my thought

I absolutely agree. It's a common bodybuilding saying that if you want to grow, you have to become stronger first. That stronger muscles means bigger muscles. It makes sense, however, it also makes as much sense to believe that bigger muscles means stronger muscles. The thing is that we've seen some relatively skinny guys who are as strong, if not stronger, as those guys who outweigh them by forty or fifty pounds. And there are guys who can get constantly bigger without gaining noticeable strength.

The logic behind the notion that stronger muscles means bigger muscles is the fact that if you lift heavier as you gain strength, the more stress you give your muscles and more stress means more growth stimulus. But can our muscles tell the difference between a 250-pound and a 50-pound barbell? If I can bench press fifty pounds for a maximum of eight reps today, and then bench press 250 pounds for a maximum of eight reps six years after, would my muscles know that I'm lifting 200 pounds more now than six years ago? No.

[Gorilla]

Originally Posted by THE DISCIPLE

sorry mr gorilla. every ones body responds differently to different things. if you want to half ass it in the gym thats your business. theres so much more to it than that. u dont know my training split do u. 1 body part per day. thats it. 7 days to recover. balls out 100 percent. im 43 years old been training this way 2 years. every workout im stronger than the next, and i seem to be getting bigger weekly. i havent plateaud yet. pm my training partner. his pix are on here. see what he has to say about me and my style.his name is irish. good day

................................maaan chill.. i was traying to make a point!
things r working for u..... be happy dont wory go train

[tps154]

Originally Posted by crull

for me its essential to switch between a bodybuilding and powerlifting routine every 12-16 weeks because i can gain mass very fast after i gained some strenght and its the other way around too

cosign, but get competitive. whether its a big time competition or putting up one more rep than your friend, it helps alot.

music helps too...
YouTube - Parkway Drive - Boneyards
my favorite lifting song haha get really pi*sed off and go to the gym, the results are unbeatable.

[crull]

Originally Posted by tps154

cosign, but get competitive. whether its a big time competition or putting up one more rep than your friend, it helps alot.

music helps too...
YouTube - Parkway Drive - Boneyards
my favorite lifting song haha get really pi*sed off and go to the gym, the results are unbeatable.

dude i listen to some ****ing deathcore man, i doubt theres something that gets you more agressive^^

im training alone and i want to improve at every workout, because when youre not improving your getting weaker IMO

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by Patmuscled!

I absolutely agree. It's a common bodybuilding saying that if you want to grow, you have to become stronger first. That stronger muscles means bigger muscles. It makes sense, however, it also makes as much sense to believe that bigger muscles means stronger muscles. The thing is that we've seen some relatively skinny guys who are as strong, if not stronger, as those guys who outweigh them by forty or fifty pounds. And there are guys who can get constantly bigger without gaining noticeable strength.

The logic behind the notion that stronger muscles means bigger muscles is the fact that if you lift heavier as you gain strength, the more stress you give your muscles and more stress means more growth stimulus. But can our muscles tell the difference between a 250-pound and a 50-pound barbell? If I can bench press fifty pounds for a maximum of eight reps today, and then bench press 250 pounds for a maximum of eight reps six years after, would my muscles know that I'm lifting 200 pounds more now than six years ago? No.

There are many factors that contribute to a persons functional strength apart from muscle size, such as bone structure, muscle insertion points, muscle fibers per motor unit etc. Hence why there are people exceptionally strong for their size.

These factors however are predetermined and will not change no matter what you do with training/nutrition. The only thing you can change is your muscle size. Granted it is not a direct correlation, as muscle can increase in efficiency as well, but a correlation nonetheless.

You can find small guys who are strong, as explained in my first paragraph, but you will never EVER find a big guy who is weak. Period.

As for you last statement:
"If I can bench press fifty pounds for a maximum of eight reps today, and then bench press 250 pounds for a maximum of eight reps six years after, would my muscles know that I'm lifting 200 pounds more now than six years ago? No."

I don't want to start an argument here, perhaps I'm misunderstanding the post....
Are you suggesting that increasing your bench by 200lbs for 8 reps would go unnoticed by your muscles?

Please elaborate.....

[tps154]

^^ agree i dont get it?

[Patmuscled!]

Originally Posted by Demon Knight

There are many factors that contribute to a persons functional strength apart from muscle size, such as bone structure, muscle insertion points, muscle fibers per motor unit etc. Hence why there are people exceptionally strong for their size.

These factors however are predetermined and will not change no matter what you do with training/nutrition. The only thing you can change is your muscle size. Granted it is not a direct correlation, as muscle can increase in efficiency as well, but a correlation nonetheless.

You can find small guys who are strong, as explained in my first paragraph, but you will never EVER find a big guy who is weak. Period.

As for you last statement:
"If I can bench press fifty pounds for a maximum of eight reps today, and then bench press 250 pounds for a maximum of eight reps six years after, would my muscles know that I'm lifting 200 pounds more now than six years ago? No."

I don't want to start an argument here, perhaps I'm misunderstanding the post....
Are you suggesting that increasing your bench by 200lbs for 8 reps would go unnoticed by your muscles?

Please elaborate.....

It's ok to have an argument to prove prove you're right. What's wrong with that? :)

Anyway, first of all, there are big bodybuilders who are relatively weak compared to other big or even smaller bodybuilders. Franco Columbu is literally a stronger bodybuilder than Lou Ferrigno and he is a much smaller bodybuilder.

Now, regarding the bench press, when you were a beginner and you can only bench press 50 pounds for 8 reps, your muscles wouldn't notice that you're lifting 200 pounds more after six or ten years. Your muscles wouldn't know that it has gotten stronger.

[Zack]

I've been watching this thread for a while and I just wanna throw in my 2cc on the muscle knowledge part. Your muscles don't really know anything, it's your mind that perceives the weight as being heavy or not. In relation to that of course is the fact that the actin and myosin cross bridges may not be able to overlap as well or as quickly with the heavy weight which would cause you to strain to get the weight up and have it be perceived as heavy by the brain. The hypertrophy of the microfibers and microfibrils (I could go into more detail, but I figure I'll just leave it at that) over time does result in some gain of strength of course, which would lead you to over time believe that back in the day if you lifted 50lbs it was heavy, but at this point in time it is seen as light and 200lbs may be used as the working set where as back in the day it would've been 50lbs, but all in all the muscles know nothing. The only thing that the muscles know is when to have either an isometric, concentric, or eccentric contraction depending on their function and need for the contraction at the time, but that is accomplished through neurological pathways (synapses and action potentials) to get the muscle to perform that function.

Sorry if any of that was confusing, but I tried to make it as simple as I could. :)

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by Patmuscled!

It's ok to have an argument to prove prove you're right. What's wrong with that? :)

Anyway, first of all, there are big bodybuilders who are relatively weak compared to other big or even smaller bodybuilders. Franco Columbu is literally a stronger bodybuilder than Lou Ferrigno and he is a much smaller bodybuilder.

Now, regarding the bench press, when you were a beginner and you can only bench press 50 pounds for 8 reps, your muscles wouldn't notice that you're lifting 200 pounds more after six or ten years. Your muscles wouldn't know that it has gotten stronger.

Thanks mate, I'm glad we're having a civilised argument :-)

To the first paragraph (Franco Columbu and Lou Ferrigno), I believe I've made it clear that I agree, there are people out there exceptionally strong for their size. Relative is a conflicting term though. Columbu was known for his terrific strength, especially the deadlift. But Ronnie Coleman is stronger. And bigger. Franco deadlifted 750lbs as his record, Coleman has done 800lbs for a full two reps.

Like Zack has said, your muscles don't know anything. Science has proven one thing about muscles: Muscle strength is correlated to it's cross-sectional area. In simple terms, the bigger a muscle is, the more force it can apply.

As for the last note, your body definitely know you're benching 200lbs more. After all, that's why it's made all necessary adaptations to do so.

[luke_william]

i think no one can really give you a stright answer because no matter how long they been in the gym or how much experince they are always learning some thing new. if some one has stoped and said there i will train like this for ever. they have failed you always have to progress your training . i still think there r tried tesed and true trainig methods but they should be a base and not the whole thing keep trying new stuff keep an open mind and keep growing.... if any one thinks im full of **** tell me cuz i too want to get the most out of my trainig and if im way off on my out look at traing i need some one to tell me :) thanks guys

[Power12]

I have too many unconventional beliefs to list. I'll just pick one.
As far as being natural I say if you're training hard, eating right and getting sufficient rest there shouldn't be any need for drugs or extra hormones, unless someone has some kind of medical problem with low test levels. I read that Dave Palumbo was natural until he got to about 210. Only take drugs if you need it, not as a crutch is my personal philosophy. I feel like a lot of guys are perfectly capable of gaining but they go right to drugs rather than examine whether they're doing something else wrong.
Part of the beauty of bodybuilding is that it is a sport of persevering and patience.
As far as a unique training philosophy, for chest I don't like to train more than one angle for weeks or even month at a time. I prefer to pick what ever part of chest is weaker, upper lower or middle and focus on bringing just that up for months at a time. So for example if my upper chest was the relative weak point I would do incline benches, dumbells and other exercises like that.
Part of this comes from the observation that whenever I'm finished with one exercise, say flat benching, my shoulders are completely fried, so when I try to then move on to inclines I have to use a ridiculously low weight, which just burns out the shoulders even more and isn't really sufficient to stimulate upper chest.

[Demon Knight]

Originally Posted by Power12

I have too many unconventional beliefs to list. I'll just pick one.
As far as being natural I say if you're training hard, eating right and getting sufficient rest there shouldn't be any need for drugs or extra hormones, unless someone has some kind of medical problem with low test levels. I read that Dave Palumbo was natural until he got to about 210. Only take drugs if you need it, not as a crutch is my personal philosophy. I feel like a lot of guys are perfectly capable of gaining but they go right to drugs rather than examine whether they're doing something else wrong.

Don't believe everything they tell you mate. Natural bodybuilders with the best genetics and best training in the world do not compare to the sizes of IFBB bodybuilders.

I'm not aware of how long you've been training or what your genetics are like but you'll probably work this out for yourself a few years down the line.

It is an outrageous lie what you can achieve naturally. Expectations have gone through the roof in recent years. A 16-17" lean, unpumped arm is worthy of natural bodybuilding status and takes at least half a decade for the lucky ones.

Drugs and genetics are far more competent than any training/nutrition scheme you can devise. You can't turn a Woody Allen into an Arnie. Period.

[islander]

ok I know this is a little out there but I was thinking it after I read Zacks post up there about muscle development. It was about your mind 'perceiving' if the weight was heavy or not. And I know ive grabbed dbs that were racked wrong and did my set before realizing they were 5 lbs heavier then I thought. So I wonder how much the mind and what is sees and think its knows and what your able to make yourself do are actually connected. Like how fast of gains could a blind man make if someone was training him but secretly adding weight here and there to push out heavier weights. get what i mean?... sorry this is the kinda thing I think about at 1 in the morning.

[yegy3]

Its not about looking at the guy next to you who is benching 100 more pounds then you, its about taking it at your own pace. If you do not have the proper technique, you are not going to make the gains, its that simple. Id rather have 17 inch arms curling 30 pound dumbells than having 14 inch arms curling 45 pound dumbells.

[rjohnson5481]

and many are the opposite, some don't worry as much about size as strength. I'd much rather have a somewhat smaller arm and be able to lift more than you. bc size isn't what makes me feel strong it's the numbers.

[monkeybiker]

Originally Posted by islander

ok I know this is a little out there but I was thinking it after I read Zacks post up there about muscle development. It was about your mind 'perceiving' if the weight was heavy or not. And I know ive grabbed dbs that were racked wrong and did my set before realizing they were 5 lbs heavier then I thought. So I wonder how much the mind and what is sees and think its knows and what your able to make yourself do are actually connected. Like how fast of gains could a blind man make if someone was training him but secretly adding weight here and there to push out heavier weights. get what i mean?... sorry this is the kinda thing I think about at 1 in the morning.

Lifting heavy weights does have a big mental aspect to it. This is why for such exercises as deadlifts/squats/leg press I do quite a few warm up sets building up the weight. It's not really to warm up the muscle but to prepare me mentally for the main set.

I believe some trainers don't tell there clients the weights they are lifting fot the reason you stated.

[MVP]

Originally Posted by Patmuscled!

Hi guys, I'm interested in knowing some or all of the unconventional training techniques and philosophies that you employ or make use of in your quest to maximize progress in your bodybuilding goals.

We know much about the conventional training techniques and philosophies that were popularized by the bodybuilding media, pioneers, champion bodybuilders and self-proclaimed experts. From Arthur Jones to Joe Weider to Vince Gironda to Mike Mentzer to Charles Glass, we have been constantly bombarded with many different styles and approaches on how to train properly that are sometimes contradictory. Indeed, the bodybuilding media basically wants us to more or less follow the tried and tested traditional styles of traning.

But through trial and error, experimentation, resourcefulness, curiosity or sheer use of our intellect, what are the training techniques and philosophies do you have in your bodybuilding arsenal that have been sort of personalized or customized if there are any?

Listening to my body and aim for optimum fitness in each necessary area to obtain and reach sufficient goals.

[stateofmind25]

I actually think that sometimes people look for too much unconventional and forget the fundamentals that can build overall strength: squats, deads, dips, chins, bench.

I am all about trying new routines but I never stray too far from what has been the foundation of my workouts.