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Going straight edge...sorta
Old 10-01-2007, 08:56 PM   #1
axs377
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I've been training for 15 years now, most of that time drug free. I've done 5-6 cycles of aas, and was just getting ready to start another cycle here shortly, but I've decided at this point in my life I am never going to compete and/or profit from my physique. So I am going to stick it out legally. My current stats are ~6', 240lbs, near 15% bf. I have been as heavy as 255, with a much leaner appearance, but realize that will not likely be the case again. While using I found 400-500 grams of protein to be ideal and I really only supplemented with a multi, milk thistle, protein, creatine, joint aides, and flax seed oil. I have tried NO2 in the past and got decent short term gains, but nothing worthwhile. My current goal is to shed a few #s of lard and add some quality muscle. I know diet is the key, but what supplements do you suggest for maximizing a legal physique? P-Slim? Pro-hormones? I will be using protein, a multi, powdered creatine, omega 3 oil, what else should I add?
 
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:05 PM   #2
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If I were you I would go to a hormone replacement center and get some. I don't know how old you are but if you have been training 15 years you could suffice for having andropause. If they won't give it to you and tell you your blood work came back with normal test levels then artifically deflate it and go to another one. I would stay away from pro-hormones.

Other things you could add are bcaa's, waxy maize for post workout, and supplementation with Vit. C not to exceed 2g/day.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:11 PM   #3
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I'm only 27 so I'm not quite ready for hormone replacement therapy yet... down the road maybe, but my current job is in the spotlight so to speak, so I think anything "drug" is a no-no. I probably will add bcaas and vitamin C, what is waxy maize though? corn?
 
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:52 AM   #4
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It is a complex carb (I know what you're thinking) but due to it's molecular weight it passes through the stomach super fast and provides you with optimal post workout insulin spike. I haven't tried it yet, I have just used dextrose but either way make sure you spike insulin post workout. 50-75g of carbs initially and then re-feed every 2 hours with (50-75g of complex carbs) and protein. Also don't use fructose post workout, if you do make it very little. Are you using creatine mono? That is the most effective supplement I can think of that will not kill your liver like ph's.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:51 PM   #5
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honestly i'd bet you might see progress if you dropped your protein. There is no earthly reason for 500g.

congrats on your decision, and best of luck to you
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Old 10-05-2007, 02:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
honestly i'd bet you might see progress if you dropped your protein. There is no earthly reason for 500g.

congrats on your decision, and best of luck to you
Nice spot
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Old 10-05-2007, 02:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak View Post
It is a complex carb (I know what you're thinking) but due to it's molecular weight it passes through the stomach super fast and provides you with optimal post workout insulin spike. I haven't tried it yet, I have just used dextrose but either way make sure you spike insulin post workout. 50-75g of carbs initially and then re-feed every 2 hours with (50-75g of complex carbs) and protein. Also don't use fructose post workout, if you do make it very little. Are you using creatine mono? That is the most effective supplement I can think of that will not kill your liver like ph's.
I take in Banana's, apples, peaches-fruits postraining. I figure this is the best time to get in fast acting and get my healthy fruits in. what do you think St8flexed?
 
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Old 10-05-2007, 02:57 AM   #8
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If you are going to take in fructose post workout keep it in small quantities and combine with other carbs, namely dextrose (glucose).
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak View Post
If you are going to take in fructose post workout keep it in small quantities and combine with other carbs, namely dextrose (glucose).
What is your reasons for not recommending fructose post workout?
 
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Old 10-05-2007, 02:21 PM   #10
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1. Fructose post workout will replenish your liver glycogen and not your muscle glycogen. 2/3 of your glycogen is stored in your muscles.

2. Many fruits are low-med gi (glycemic index) due to fiber in fruits. (Not to discount the fact that if you ate enough grams it would significantly raise your blood sugar.. it's just another reason why it is not optimal.

3. Fructose is absorbed using facilitated diffusion while sucrose and glucose use active transport.
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Old 10-05-2007, 03:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak View Post
1. Fructose post workout will replenish your liver glycogen and not your muscle glycogen. 2/3 of your glycogen is stored in your muscles.

2. Many fruits are low-med gi (glycemic index) due to fiber in fruits. (Not to discount the fact that if you ate enough grams it would significantly raise your blood sugar.. it's just another reason why it is not optimal.

3. Fructose is absorbed using facilitated diffusion while sucrose and glucose use active transport.
Do you have a scientific reference for this information?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have been doing a lot of research on carbohydrates lately and I have seen nothing to indicate that fructose would not replace muscle glycogen.
Personally, I choose dextrose over fructose post-workout, mainly for two reasons: Dextrose basically is glucose and does not require conversion; and it is only half as sweet as fructose. (Anyone who as tried has swallow a fructose-laden post-workout drink would know what I mean.)
I welcome any information that would further explain your point about muscle glycogen replacement.

An update:
I love being urged to do the research. Reviewing the information in Wikipedia (Siting reserved until 15 posts are made.), I found the following:
"Unlike glucose, fructose is almost entirely metabolized in the liver. When fructose reaches the liver, says Dr. William J. Whelan, a biochemist at the University of Miami School of Medicine, "the liver goes bananas and stops everything else to metabolize the fructose." Eating fructose as compared to glucose results in lower circulating insulin levels, leptin, and ghrelin levels postprandially. These hormones are implicated in the control of appetite and satiety, and it is hypothesized that eating lots of fructose could increase the likelihood of weight gain."
Whether or not fructose is utilized in the muscle, I still don't know. However, lowering insulin is absolutely not what I want my post-workout drink to do.
 
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:26 PM   #12
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if you want to try something that works pretty good to help lean you out, and drop some of those fatty#'s... try IDS Ripped Tabs. they worked pretty good for me when i was cutting.
 
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