[bbdude]

Originally Posted by mindstar

i'm natural because my girlfriend would break up with me if i were to pin. no other reason. I've done my research, looked at the consequences and weighed my options. Morality doesn't enter this decision as I no longer play organized sports.

thats some good reasons ^^

[Casey Butt]

I don't see this as a moral issue at all. I'm natural, mostly, because training is a life-long endeavor for me, and I see drug-use as something that I don't want to start because it would be difficult to stop. In that regard, from a long-term perspective, drug-use just doesn't make sense.

At the same time, there is a certain pride involved in looking in the mirror and being able to say that you built that physique without chemical "assistance". But that's like anything ...there's always a certain feeling of accomplishment in doing it the hard way.

And, honestly, I don't see the need for steroids. I don't want the freaky mass above what the body's natural potential is. The upper limits of drug-free physique potential are fine for me. In my opinion, excessive drug-use creates physiques that are too big, freaky and not "normal" looking. Steroids are not necessary for what 90% of the training population want to accomplish.

[lil_big_junior]

fair enough i see your point^^^

[Sparky_dustin]

Originally Posted by Casey Butt

I don't see this as a moral issue at all. I'm natural, mostly, because training is a life-long endeavor for me, and I see drug-use as something that I don't want to start because it would be difficult to stop. In that regard, from a long-term perspective, drug-use just doesn't make sense.

At the same time, there is a certain pride involved in looking in the mirror and being able to say that you built that physique without chemical "assistance". But that's like anything ...there's always a certain feeling of accomplishment in doing it the hard way.

And, honestly, I don't see the need for steroids. I don't want the freaky mass above what the body's natural potential is. The upper limits of drug-free physique potential are fine for me. In my opinion, excessive drug-use creates physiques that are too big, freaky and not "normal" looking. Steroids are not necessary for what 90% of the training population want to accomplish.

I can relate to the feeling of looking in the mirror and seeing what hours of natural training has accomplished, but just because your taking steroids doesn't nesecarily make it easy. IFBB pros work their asses off for their physique, and I do agree that pro's in this day and age are freaky but that is a result of their training, eating, and different combinations of chemicals. For me a physique like Arnolds isn't freaky at all and I would be proud to look in the mirror and say "even though I got chemical help, I built this physique." As far as starting and not being able to stop though, steroids aren't addictive only the feeling of constant growth and power are addictive.

[lil_big_junior]

i like the quote^^^thumbs up sparky...

[blacpete]

I say it never hurts to try something at least once in your life. Even if its to be able to just say yes I've done it. Yeah I walked down that road and I don't need it or in the case of pros they use it effectively to do things a natural bodybuilder will never, and maybe not ever even want to, realize. I truly feel steroids is unhealthy without the proper support mechanism in place, it is just to complicated and the side effects are endless. I am too lazy for that and that is why I' ve had to abstain.

[Thomas_Rivera]

I have a much better reason for me staying steroid free now. Out of the past four months, excluding everything, I had a solid 2 and a half to three months where my training was dead on. After switching to free weight benching and getting up to bench in the 200's when I did only machines I feel like i've acomplished something.

I can honestly count the amount of days that i've free weight squated on one hand and i pushed up into almost into the 300 pound range from having trouble with a 225 pound smith squat.

Prior to this I had some high school experience with no diet and a crappy "flex" routine. My diet isn't perfect now, its as close as i can get it with the resources I have. But for me I want to get as far as i can without steroids, because I want people to think i'm on them.

Kinda redundant huh?

But if someone thinks I have to use steroids to get where I wanna be, and its that hard to belive that i'm not, then that means i've acomplished something that they think is impossible.

[True21]

There are natural bodybuilders that work real hard, and there are natural bodybuilders that are real lazy.

The same goes for steroidusers...

[Casey Butt]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

But if someone thinks I have to use steroids to get where I wanna be, and its that hard to belive that i'm not, then that means i've acomplished something that they think is impossible.

I think most people underestimate what is actually capable without drugs for several reasons. The big one is that there are very few really good drug-free physiques out there compared to the number of steroid-assisted ones. That leads to people automatically assuming that if you have a good physique then you must be on something ...that leads to people assuming that you actually can't build an impressive physique without drugs.

The fact is that most people would much prefer to take the easier route and use the drugs. For the genetically typical person building an impressive and strong body without chemical assistance is a long, hard road that most people don't have the strong personal principles and/or patience to stick to -- and many people don't see a reason to. And if you take even one successful cycle of anabolics (even a mild introductory cycle of deca, winstrol, sustanon, etc) your claim to being built without drugs is gone, and it's going to be hard to go back to training "unassisted".

The presence and popularity of anabolic drugs effectively crippled drug-free training and nutrition knowledge advances for 30 years, making it harder now for naturals to make their maximum gains simply because they're largely left in the dark with regards to what constitutes proper drug-free training and nutrition approaches. Much of what naturals are left to do is "adapt" what the drug-users are doing ...which is not an ideal situation.

Another problem is the common perception of what constitutes "big and muscular". Many beginners and intermediates (and even some very experienced people) think that an arm must be at least 18" before it starts to look impressive, when the fact is that much depends on bone diameter. A very lean and shapely 16" arm on a 7" wrist is very impressive -- the equivalent of an 18.25" arm on an 8" wrist ...most people wouldn't think that because of the disinformation spread by the popular bodybuilding press and a comparison to drug-using behemoths. Those measurements, by the way, would represent near maximums for drug-free, genetically typical bodybuilders.

I think if there were more impressive drug-free physiques around then people would be less inclined to use drugs ...but as long as an easier, quicker way to reach their goals is available then people are going to take it.

[True21]

Originally Posted by Casey Butt

I think most people underestimate what is actually capable without drugs for several reasons. The big one is that there are very few really good drug-free physiques out there compared to the number of steroid-assisted ones. That leads to people automatically assuming that if you have a good physique then you must be on something ...that leads to people assuming that you actually can't build an impressive physique without drugs.

The fact is that most people would much prefer to take the easier route and use the drugs. For the genetically typical person building an impressive and strong body without chemical assistance is a long, hard road that most people don't have the strong personal principles and/or patience to stick to -- and many people don't see a reason to. And if you take even one successful cycle of anabolics (even a mild introductory cycle of deca, winstrol, sustanon, etc) your claim to being built without drugs is gone, and it's going to be hard to go back to training "unassisted".

The presence and popularity of anabolic drugs effectively crippled drug-free training and nutrition knowledge advances for 30 years, making it harder now for naturals to make their maximum gains simply because they're largely left in the dark with regards to what constitutes proper drug-free training and nutrition approaches. Much of what naturals are left to do is "adapt" what the drug-users are doing ...which is not an ideal situation.

Another problem is the common perception of what constitutes "big and muscular". Many beginners and intermediates (and even some very experienced people) think that an arm must be at least 18" before it starts to look impressive, when the fact is that much depends on bone diameter. A very lean and shapely 16" arm on a 7" wrist is very impressive -- the equivalent of an 18.25" arm on an 8" wrist ...most people wouldn't think that because of the disinformation spread by the popular bodybuilding press and a comparison to drug-using behemoths. Those measurements, by the way, would represent near maximums for drug-free, genetically typical bodybuilders.

I think if there were more impressive drug-free physiques around then people would be less inclined to use drugs ...but as long as an easier, quicker way to reach their goals is available then people are going to take it.

That was a very good post. I totally agree.