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Old 01-13-2008, 06:10 PM   #571
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All's good mate. Holidays were great but all that food and drink has taken it's toll. At 14%bf now so gotta cut down a bit. I hate the little belly!

Protein will always be a subject of much discussion for athletes. I have all the respect for Berardi, Willson and Lowery. But I guess I class myself as a skeptic when it comes to numbers without proof (I am an accountant by profession). They refer to trainees, articles by other strength athletes and coaches etc. But I have yet to see something really proven i.e. 10 trainees on 1.5g/kg protein for 6 months on diet/calories A and program A compared to the same 10 trainees on 1.5g/lg for 6 months on diet/calories A and program A. I guess they don't feel the need to prove anything but I would be very interested in something like that.

I've been on a high protein diet (1.5g/lb min) in the past and I must admit, I saw nothing advantageous compared to the normal protein (1.4-1.8g/kg) I take in now. In fact, my measurements show my current one with more carbohydrates is giving me better progress. But again, that's just me saying. I've changed my workout too, it could be that for instance. Not even close to a controlled, scientific study.

Anyway, I think you're doing a fantastic job and if I ever achieve what you have, I will be very proud. Keep up the good work!
Thank you damon…I do understand your point of view…and I respect it!!! Everybody is different….and its very difficult to generalize about this subject ….you know!!! there are many variables playing in the formula of nutrition… Scientist are researching and findings new theories all the time…for example the other day I was reading about Nutrigenomics, this investigates how the foods we eat interact with our genes to affect our health. They are trying to find how much of each nutrient should a particular person consume and how common variations found throughout the human genome explain individual differences in response to dietary intake….this is very exciting because maybe one day they will find out why some people respond better to high/moderate protein intake.

take care bro
 
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:04 PM   #572
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my shoulder is been bothering me lately....its an old injury that always come back.....its also very frustrating because everything was going well....

I started taking Animal Flex and Fish oil and also i am using ice to decrease the inflamation.......hopefully the pain will decrease.

I have been working out like that for a week or two and i havent had a good chest workout...and this really pissed me off because i cant do anything to fix it...just wait
 
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Old 01-14-2008, 02:46 PM   #573
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That Nutrigenomics sounds interesting. I've just googled about it. Thanks for the input!

Pity about the shoulder injury. Hate it when you're working so hard and it's holding you back.

What worked for me was dropping to light weights (around 60% of what I was using before) with the same reps/sets and doing rotator cuff exercises. Week 2 I went to 70%. Week 3 to 80%. Week 4 to 90% and finally in Week 5 I was back on track. Frustrating doing the light stuff as within a few days, I felt ready for 100% but I kept it slow and steady.
 
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:36 PM   #574
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That Nutrigenomics sounds interesting. I've just googled about it. Thanks for the input!

Pity about the shoulder injury. Hate it when you're working so hard and it's holding you back.

What worked for me was dropping to light weights (around 60% of what I was using before) with the same reps/sets and doing rotator cuff exercises. Week 2 I went to 70%. Week 3 to 80%. Week 4 to 90% and finally in Week 5 I was back on track. Frustrating doing the light stuff as within a few days, I felt ready for 100% but I kept it slow and steady.
thanks for the tip bro...i will try to implement it...however is really frustrating because i was trying to achieve new PR....also my chest is not a strong point in my phisique so its always my priority....well i will go back to the drawing table and i will try to came up with a new workout or something
 
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:16 AM   #575
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ok...i have been thinking about it and i will start this comming monday a new workout program.....i am going to focus on improving my back (Weak point area)....so for the next 4 weeks i will do a specialization program for my back.

I will try to take advantage of this bad moment to improve my weak points and let my delt/chest injury heal for 4 weeks.

i wont stop my chest training i am just going to lower the weights and the total volume....something that is a must during spec programs.

Also i am finishing my first 2 weeks of cutting this sunday and this will be the perfect time to switch into growing mode

the split:

Monday: Back width

Day 2: spinal erectors and traps

Wednesday: Chest and arms

Thursday: OFF

Friday: Back thickness

Saturday: Legs and shoulders

Sunday: OFF

Comments are welcome....
 
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Old 01-21-2008, 02:39 PM   #576
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Yesterday was my last day of my 2 week cutting cycle....i mainly ate fruits and vegetables as my source of carbohydrates.....i kept my protein intake high 1.5g /lb (300 grams) my protein sources were Beef, Salmon and tilapia.....what is strange is that I ended up weighing one 211.5 lbs....it seems that i didn’t gain or loose bodyweight during the last 2 weeks.....however my waist line was noticeable smaller.....i wish i had my calipers and had my bodyfat taken before and after to see what really happened.

Today i started bulking again for 4 more weeks......

All this dieting-bulking cycling is new to me....and i dont know what to expect....hopefully i will respond well to this method.
 
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:39 PM   #577
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Yesterday was my last day of my 2 week cutting cycle....i mainly ate fruits and vegetables as my source of carbohydrates.....i kept my protein intake high 1.5g /lb (300 grams) my protein sources were Beef, Salmon and tilapia.....what is strange is that I ended up weighing one 211.5 lbs....it seems that i didn’t gain or loose bodyweight during the last 2 weeks.....however my waist line was noticeable smaller.....i wish i had my calipers and had my bodyfat taken before and after to see what really happened.

Today i started bulking again for 4 more weeks......

All this dieting-bulking cycling is new to me....and i dont know what to expect....hopefully i will respond well to this method.

Best of luck with the cycling. I'd really like to hear how you feel about all of it after several months. I've read all about how Layne choses this method, I'd enjoy hearing your perspective on the topic as well.
 
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:00 AM   #578
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Best of luck with the cycling. I'd really like to hear how you feel about all of it after several months. I've read all about how Layne choses this method, I'd enjoy hearing your perspective on the topic as well.
Hey bro!! nice to see you around here!!.......hopefully this method will work well for me!!! ...tomorrow i will post my initial stats (bodyfat, weight to see exactly where i am starting at........
 
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:07 PM   #579
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Ok I finally got my calipers...and actually i was quite surprised with the results....i am 8.9% bf (Calipers reads 3% lower)…I thought I was going to be fatter because of all the things that I have been thru the past couple of months (moving back to the states, eating crap, not training for a while, stress etc)

The good news is that have 1 or 2 lbs more in lean mass than what I ever had….Last year I reached about 190lbs in muscle mass and now I have 211@8.9% = 192.25 lbs …this gets me closer to my goal….and I am just starting the year….i still have 10-11 months of bulking.

Finally…I took a great decision last week…….I will be working with Layne Again! I am sure that with his experience and guidance this will be my best year in terms of muscle gains and learning.

Finally i have a couple of pictures....i feel fat and i miss my abs but this is the price i have to pay if i want to improve.

Take care and see you later
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:32 AM   #580
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Hey bro!! nice to see you around here!!.......hopefully this method will work well for me!!! ...tomorrow i will post my initial stats (bodyfat, weight to see exactly where i am starting at........
Hey man! Don't worry I am still in here regularly checking for updates. Just haven't posted in a bit, but don't worry this is my favorite thread to read through so I will always be checking in! Just saw the pictures you posted and even with your rough several months ya still look like a beast. You really have some of the biggest natural quads I have seen. You and Layne and the rest of the big natty guys are an inspiration, keep working hard!
 
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:32 PM   #581
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bro you got some brolic legs. keep it up cant wait till i see the results.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:02 PM   #582
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Hey man! Don't worry I am still in here regularly checking for updates. Just haven't posted in a bit, but don't worry this is my favorite thread to read through so I will always be checking in! Just saw the pictures you posted and even with your rough several months ya still look like a beast. You really have some of the biggest natural quads I have seen. You and Layne and the rest of the big natty guys are an inspiration, keep working hard!
Thank you bro for the nice comments!!! i am working out realy hard....and eating big!! ...i hope you are doing great

take care
 
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:07 PM   #583
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bro you got some brolic legs. keep it up cant wait till i see the results.
Thank you julio!!! it seems that what i have been doing is working for my legs.....

see you around bro!
 
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:45 AM   #584
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I have been training in my new gym for 3 months and when I started I noticed I lot of guys with great genetics and good size!! Some of them pretty big and some others very young but with very good size and condition for their age……I then started wondering why those guys don’t compete.???. Or maybe they compete??? And I started having doubts about by genetics and my progress…I questioned the fact that I was not that big and that lean at that age and that probably some of them with beat me in contest!! …………Today after 3 months I met this young guy at the gym..very nice guy by the way!!! and we were talking about training, nutrition the usual stuff but suddenly he asked me: Hey have you ever have taken the real stuff to get big…I replied …mmm well nop!! I told him that i have competed and I want to keep compete in natural bodybuilding and they disqualify you for using that stuff…to make the story short …he told me that he is going to use a pro-hormone called something- Black!! …I told him….I’ve never heard of that!! He replied: it’s not sold in stores …underground stuff he said!! Then he said something that surprised me in some way>>>>>he said: everybody is using this stuff in the gym and it works!!!!…..then I realized that all the good genetics and size that I noticed in the gym was maybe product of pro-hormones and steroids…even young kids are taking that ****….also he admitted that he got sick once (kidney problems) because he was taking something………………… I have to admit that I felt relieved with the fact that they are not natural…however I felt bad for them because they are putting things in their body that is going to cause more bad than good!! Who knows where those things come from…or what quality controls they apply to their products..if any!!

I have nothing against people who use steroids ….a few good friends have done it (but in Nicaragua where they are legal and you can get them at the drug store with no prescription) but here they are illegal and you run the risk of getting poor quality products from underground labs that could harm you pretty bad!!!

Just some thoughts!!! Have a great weekend
 
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Old 01-26-2008, 08:26 AM   #585
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I understand what you mean fmoncas, I think all us natural bbers do. It is a shame that people do take anabolics when they are very new to strength training. Like you said, educated experienced people with proper medical supervision, I have no qualms with them taking steroids.

I am of the belief that the general strength training world should be more open about the use of anabolics. However, with the stigma that steroids have, I doubt this will ever happen.

The point is for a natural bber, even a genetically great one, it takes years and years of effort. Their programs are much shorter than the IFBB pro's out there, but that's not due to laziness, that's due to ability. A genetically average or below average bber has even shorter, more infrequent programs. And the image that a 20" lean, cold, flexed arm is attainable in a few years without anabolics or genetics.....dream on. As a lifetime goal (10+ years),a 16" lean, cold, flexed arm is mightily impressive, a 17" is oustanding and an 18" belongs to a lucky few. That's not to say you can't surpass these measurements but if you reach them as a natural bber, you have done extremely well.

A friend of mine from work wanted to start bodybuilding which is great. He showed me a guy on the front of muscle & fitness and his program. It was just too much. 40+ work to failure sets of 10-12 reps a day, to be repeated 4 times a week, upper-lower body split!!! He then asked me if I could design a routine for him, to which I replied there is nothing special in any routine but I can give you an idea of how different succesful weight training workouts can be, ranging from IFBB pro 2x a day, 40+ work sets to that of a Stuart McRobert 2 times a week (or less) with 3 work sets.

Anyway, the steroid story will always go on and on. You shouldn't feel bad though fmoncas. You are always at peak looking condition, honest and open and I rank you amongst the highest bbers I've seen on any forum.
 
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:25 PM   #586
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I understand what you mean fmoncas, I think all us natural bbers do. It is a shame that people do take anabolics when they are very new to strength training. Like you said, educated experienced people with proper medical supervision, I have no qualms with them taking steroids.

I am of the belief that the general strength training world should be more open about the use of anabolics. However, with the stigma that steroids have, I doubt this will ever happen.

The point is for a natural bber, even a genetically great one, it takes years and years of effort. Their programs are much shorter than the IFBB pro's out there, but that's not due to laziness, that's due to ability. A genetically average or below average bber has even shorter, more infrequent programs. And the image that a 20" lean, cold, flexed arm is attainable in a few years without anabolics or genetics.....dream on. As a lifetime goal (10+ years),a 16" lean, cold, flexed arm is mightily impressive, a 17" is oustanding and an 18" belongs to a lucky few. That's not to say you can't surpass these measurements but if you reach them as a natural bber, you have done extremely well.

A friend of mine from work wanted to start bodybuilding which is great. He showed me a guy on the front of muscle & fitness and his program. It was just too much. 40+ work to failure sets of 10-12 reps a day, to be repeated 4 times a week, upper-lower body split!!! He then asked me if I could design a routine for him, to which I replied there is nothing special in any routine but I can give you an idea of how different succesful weight training workouts can be, ranging from IFBB pro 2x a day, 40+ work sets to that of a Stuart McRobert 2 times a week (or less) with 3 work sets.

Anyway, the steroid story will always go on and on. You shouldn't feel bad though fmoncas. You are always at peak looking condition, honest and open and I rank you amongst the highest bbers I've seen on any forum.
Thank you damon!! i Really apreciate your words!! they mean a lot to me! As a kid I was always skinny …everybody pick on me because of that ..so I started working out to gain size…..and for some reason i never took the faster way (steroids)... it’s been a long ride and I am loving it (the ups and downs)…but when somebody appreciate my progress the way you did!! It feels great bro…you just made my day!!!
 
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:59 PM   #587
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Ok ….I decided to post these pictures for more motivation for all of us!!!!!!……just let me tell you that i have never seen somebody with the symmetry, size and condition that this man has!!! I almost couldn’t believe that he was NATURAL!!!....i started researching about him because I was so impressed with his physique that I needed to know if such a good body could be created with no drugs!!!!!
His name is KOMANG ARNAWA (Indonesian Bodybuilder)…he is 168 cm and competes at 176 lbs……he was the “2005 Mr Natural Olympia Overall Champion” under de INBA Association (international Natural Bodybuilding Association) ….check this out guys
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Old 01-26-2008, 03:01 PM   #588
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more!!!
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:39 PM   #589
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that bloke looks unbelievable, and only weighs 176lbs. amazing
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:44 PM   #590
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I think I just found my goal body. That's amazing bro, what a great physique.
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Proof that hard work grants success:
Postulate 1: Knowledge is Power
Postulate 2: Time is money
Postulate 3: Success is measure by wealth


In physics,
Power = Work / Time

Substitution dictates:
Knowledge = Work / Money

Solve for Money which = Success:
Money = Success = Work / Knowledge

Thus, success is determined by the amount of work you put in so long as you maintain a certain level of knowledge :)
 
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:37 PM   #591
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It’s amazing…he looks huge!! No weak points at all!!!....i was reading that he is not able to compete more often because of the lack of sponsors….life is ironic!! You have this world class athlete with crazy genes in the other side of the world but with no money to prove and show what he is capable of…

Anyway this is his website…in case you want to check it out

Komang Arnawa - Drug Free Pro World Champion Bodybuilder
 
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:42 PM   #592
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Will do bro! Thanks.

Wow that is ironic, he's a beast! Hope he goes far, one of the best physiques i've seen.
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Ipsa scientia potestas est.

Proof that hard work grants success:
Postulate 1: Knowledge is Power
Postulate 2: Time is money
Postulate 3: Success is measure by wealth


In physics,
Power = Work / Time

Substitution dictates:
Knowledge = Work / Money

Solve for Money which = Success:
Money = Success = Work / Knowledge

Thus, success is determined by the amount of work you put in so long as you maintain a certain level of knowledge :)
 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:51 PM   #593
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I am very shocked he is natural. He looks huge!
 
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:43 PM   #594
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This is my first week on layne’s program….as expected he lowered my protein intake …well his knowledge in this field speaks for itself I will follow all his indications to a T……the macros looks like this 250 grams of protein, 80 grams of fats and 450 grams of carbs per day (on training days)!!......On the other hand I will be deloading for a couple of weeks….he explains me that it will give my CNS a break from all the heavy training that I have been doing. Also this will prevent stagnation so I will be able to get stronger once I resume the heavy weight training.

Concerning to my nutrition I am stll using my old diet…I haven’t switched to laynes because I am still working on the spread sheet (diet)….been trying to find the right foods, Match the numbers, etc… so I believe that by next Monday I will be ready to start using the full program (training and nutrition)….i am really excited about eating 450 grams of carbs…..i want to see what reaction I will get from that….hopefully is a good one.
See you later!!
 
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Old 02-02-2008, 05:05 PM   #595
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I Finally had the time to put this together…..Lets gets a little bigger!!!....11 more months to go:weigh tlifter:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf PROGRESS 2008.pdf (7.7 KB, 34 views)
 
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:50 PM   #596
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Very inspiring thread.
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100% life-time NATURAL bodybuilder

Want to know how I added >50 lbs of solid muscle 100% natural?
Visit: http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com
 
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:02 AM   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister-10 View Post
Very inspiring thread.
Thank you bro!! i havent see you around so..welcome!!
 
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:34 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmoncas View Post
Ok I finally got my calipers...and actually i was quite surprised with the results....i am 8.9% bf (Calipers reads 3% lower)…I thought I was going to be fatter because of all the things that I have been thru the past couple of months (moving back to the states, eating crap, not training for a while, stress etc)

The good news is that have 1 or 2 lbs more in lean mass than what I ever had….Last year I reached about 190lbs in muscle mass and now I have 211@8.9% = 192.25 lbs …this gets me closer to my goal….and I am just starting the year….i still have 10-11 months of bulking.

Finally…I took a great decision last week…….I will be working with Layne Again! I am sure that with his experience and guidance this will be my best year in terms of muscle gains and learning.

Finally i have a couple of pictures....i feel fat and i miss my abs but this is the price i have to pay if i want to improve.

Take care and see you later

Dude, you are one huge, natural bodybuilder! Thats why your the true Champ around these parts.

And with the co work with Layne, who knows how great you will turn out! Best of luck, Champ!
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:00 AM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True21 View Post
Dude, you are one huge, natural bodybuilder! Thats why your the true Champ around these parts.

And with the co work with Layne, who knows how great you will turn out! Best of luck, Champ!
True my friend!!! Nice to see you posting around here again!!!...thanks a lot for the kind and motivating words!! I am just doing what I can with what I have!!! It is tough… very tough sometimes but I really want this bad…I don’t know if I will succeed but I am pushing hard every day…..On the other hand you also have a great physique bro!! and I am sure that if you decide to compete one day you will be a great natural bodybuilder champ my friend!!
 
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:11 AM   #600
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IronBros…when I am feeling down after a long day of work….and I still got to go to the gym and put 100% in the workout…….i read stuff like this and listen to stuff like disturbed …….it really raise up my spirit!!!!

I hope you like theses sayings….lets start with the one and only…Arnold

1.Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength. -- Arnold Schwarzenegger

2.What is important is to keep learning, to enjoy challenge, and to tolerate ambiguity. In the end there are no certain answers.—Martina Horner

3.It's not that some people have willpower and some don't. It's that some people are ready to change and others are not.—James Gordon

4.The victory of success is half won when one gains the habit of setting goals and achieving them. Even the most tedious chore will become endurable as you parade through each day convinced that every task, no matter how menial or boring, brings you closer to fulfilling your dreams.—Og Mandino

5.Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire.—Reggie Leach

6.The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.—Arthur C. Clarke

7.Take a chance! All life is a chance. The man who goes furthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare.—Dale Carnegie

8.Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.—Edgar Allan Poe

9.Difficulties are meant to rouse, not discourage. The human spirit is to grow strong by conflict.—William Ellery Channing

10.When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.—Hugh White

11.Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.—George Bernard Shaw.

12.It seems to me that people have vast potential. Most people can do extraordinary things if they have the confidence or take the risks. Yet most people don't. They sit in front of the telly and treat life as if it goes on forever.—Philip Adams

13.So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable.—Christopher Reeve,

14.Ultimately, we're all dead men. Sadly we cannot choose how. But, we can decide how we meet that end in order that we are remembered as men. -- Proximo (Gladiator)

15.It is a paradoxical but profoundly true and important principle of life that the most likely way to reach a goal is to be aiming not at that goal itself but at some more ambitious goal beyond it. -- Arnold Toynbee

16.If you greatly desire something, have the guts to stake everything on obtaining it. -- Brendan Francis

17.Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect. -Ralph Waldo Emerson

18.My wish is to ride the tempest, tame the waves, kill the sharks. I will not resign myself... -- Trieu Thi Trinh

19.Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going. -- Jim Ryun

20.There are admirable potentialities in every human being. Believe in your strength and your youth. Learn to repeat endlessly to yourself, 'It all depends on me.' -- Andre Gide

TrainHARd!!!!
 
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