What is YOUR definition of natural

**str8flexed** · 07-14-2006, 02:35 PM

This will be the designated thread for discussion on what is or isn't natural. There will be no arguing about it in any other thread lol. That said here is my take:

If you ask 100 different people what is natural, you'll get 100 different answers. Personally I just say i'm natural b/c it's alot easier than saying "I don't use steroids, prohormones, psychomotor stimulants, GH, etc, etc, etc.

I do have ethical problems with the abuse of steroids but for the most part I don't care what a person wants to do to their own body. That said, the real evils I believe are the magazines that portray some of these bodytypes as healthy & fit which is a load of crap.

In my opinion so long as a competitor falls within the guidelines of what is "natural" for that organization then I'm perfectly ok with him/her. I may have an issue with some of the rules for different orgs, but that is an organizational issue... not the competitors.

-Layne

**Jayhawkk** · 07-14-2006, 03:05 PM

My personal opinion is one who hasn't used steroids, pro hormones, igf, growth hormones, insulin to increase lean muscle mass. Products like protein, creatine etc I feel are legit.

That's the general all purpose answer anyways. I'd be here all day thinking about every product and where it falls :)

imraan47 · 07-14-2006, 03:18 PM

I was just wondering if anyone of you consider GH and/or Testosterone level boosters ie. Tribulus or Tribex natural or not and if you have thought about taking either one?

**Jayhawkk** · 07-14-2006, 03:23 PM

I've taken trib years ago but it didn't have any effect. I think products that give you an ability to attain size you couldn't without are on the list. I don't think a person taking trib could attain sizes that would be unable to be reached without. So I wouldn't consider it a illegal substance in a natty contest.

Layne being the expert in this area may chime in with a better response.

MindFCUK · 07-14-2006, 03:45 PM

Natural to me has to have clear cut parameters. Because of the effects of food, and the hormones in them one can mae the arguement that you can accidental growth by way of food, and hormones being that they are pumped with steroids and such. But I digress. Layne asked what constitute natural, i say a person who does use any exogenous hormone to build muscle. SO there you have it, sr8flexed!

**str8flexed** · 07-14-2006, 04:39 PM

well first you have to convince me that trib works... i'm not sure it does. Additionally, it is natural in that it is merely a plant extract. That said, if it does increase testosterone... there is still a difference between taking in an exogenous hormone and manipulating endogenous production... I think i'm probably ok with the latter but not the former.

-Layne

Rambo · 07-14-2006, 10:12 PM

some guys think you can be called natural after being clean for a while

what do you think about that?

**Jayhawkk** · 07-14-2006, 10:13 PM

I think it's a grey area. If you did a cycle of test 10 years ago for 8 weeks and since then haven't touched any hormone and competed then I would venture to say a legit natty. If you cycled for 10 years and have been clean for 18 months and competed you're not a natty. That's just me though.

**fahad** · 07-14-2006, 10:24 PM

i know huge ass guy were he told me he tarind 10 years naturaly b4 touching anything, and then he got on the sause but now hes not and i told him how the hell can u keep ur size like that and ur not on the sause and u dont even tarin heavy any more...he told me that its from the heavy training that he done from back in the dayzz.....

**mindstar** · 07-14-2006, 10:47 PM

Things like caffeine supplementation, ephedrine, clen, etc fall into grey areas for me...but they are banned by the natty feds i look at.

I'm not sure I have ethical concerns with gear unless one is competing in a sport where it is disallowed or it is being abused. Abuse of any substance which leads to a burdening of society due to health costs (I live in the land of socialized medicare thankfully) is ethically unsound in my mind, but responsible use of gear, booze, food, etc. is fine. I'm not sure I'm interested in a government telling me what I can and can't do with my body, as long as I don't impinge upon others rights...

This reminds me of a Colbert Report I saw where he was delineating the difference between Big government and Small government...

"telling you what you can do with your own body...=small government. You may say, but wait, don't I own my body? No, because then you would be able to sell it" heh...

**str8flexed** · 07-15-2006, 12:10 AM

caffiene is not banned by any fed that I know of... hell it's almost impossible not to get some amount of caffiene in some form in a western diet

**str8flexed** · 07-15-2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambo

some guys think you can be called natural after being clean for a while

what do you think about that?

that's a tough call. i'm a lifetime drug free guy and ideally that's how all natural shows would be. However, I understand sometimes guys feel they made mistakes when they were younger and in my mind if they've been clean like 5-7 years, then I think that shows a genuine commitment to natural bodybuilding... sort of like a born again virgin lol. Some feds out there only have a 1 or 3 year drug free requirement and I think that's a little light. And then you have feds like musclemania.... where drug free is more of a suggestion than a requirement.

-Layne

**mindstar** · 07-15-2006, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by str8flexed

caffiene is not banned by any fed that I know of... hell it's almost impossible not to get some amount of caffiene in some form in a western diet

D'oh...I knew that. Damn brain farts. I just tend to lump them in together as they are usually stacked together for fat loss.

SVTMuscle · 07-17-2006, 02:20 AM

as long as the products are not illegal AAS, or GH, your natural in my book. If the products are legal, and are considered pro-hormones (pheraplex, SD, max lmg etc etc) I still consider you natty.

marko begus · 07-18-2006, 09:12 PM

YUP,...totaly all u gain naturally u get to keep its a payment for hard work no mather what all u guys think but juice is like cheating on a race using shortcuts but we all know what happens when ur speeding u ran out of fule to fast or get soped my a "law" officer or even crash wich is sadly but true

so play the game folow the ruls be happy

wrestlingstalion · 07-20-2006, 01:44 AM

i used to consider being natural just not juicing, but now that ive played sports and realized what most pro athletes came up on (the ones who didnt juice) 90% of them came up just eating well. and not using a single supplement including protein shakes, and creatine. or testosterone boosters in general. im taking about people like larry bird, magic johnson, shaq, charles barkley, emmit smith, micheal irvin, dan marino the real athletes of yesterday. The ones who just straight up ate and did it correctly.To me thats natural, I know a ton of people will start yelling they all used some form of supplement, blah, blah, blah, But if you really know. Then youll know they didnt, and it was "natural". Thats the way i keep it so far. I have thought about steroids, I just dont know anything about them so i have yet to do that. I dont use any other type of supplement anymore, and my body actually grew way faster. I reccomend it to everyone, i started off around 149- 153 supplements but i stopped the supplements, around 2 months ago and now im at 177 which is an all time high for me and somthing i tried to obtain with supplements. so natural to me is just food and lifting.

sinkoci · 07-20-2006, 09:29 AM

Natural is an athlete who doesn't use banned drugs(performant enhancer).

country bacon grits · 07-20-2006, 12:32 PM

i would say that natural and ethical are two categories here. natural to me is an individual that has not used aas/gh/pro-hormones/pro-steroids. Ethical is a person who will supplement with things that are legal like pro-hormones/pro-steroids, but not use illegal substances like aas/gh. I have no problem with people who use aas/gh, and can admit i enjoy reading, learning about the compounds. But my view is that you hit the weights natural, and you hit em hard!

maybe ethical is the wrong word to use, because you are considered ethical if your natural as well, i hope you guys kinda get what im talkin about though.

YoungArnold08 · 07-20-2006, 04:45 PM

I consider being natural not abusing or using anything that is banned in the organization you are competing in. Also what do you guys think of thyroid supplementation that i've been told is completley legal and that most of the guys i compete against in natural orginazations do. Speeds up thyroid use to burn fat much quicker...I dont know all the specifics as I just learned about it last week.

**str8flexed** · 07-20-2006, 05:54 PM

what substances exactly are you referring to?

big04pimpin · 07-20-2006, 07:19 PM

You talking about T3 and T4?

Pfunk47 · 07-21-2006, 12:39 PM

People can do whatever they want with their bodies - that's their free will but IMO to call your self "natural" - you need to actually be natural - No lab chemicals, herbs are fine because well their from the plants, nothing added. People who do natty shows and have attained gains/physique transformations from PH/aas/ICG etc. yet clean out before showtime - even if years before are not natural - if you cannot obtain that physique naturally then you are not a "natural". If you retain your gains from your cycles and go clean for years and still retain you are still not "natural", you just are great with your diet and eat enough cals to maintain, you also have great gentics or...did your constant use alter your gene strcuture?. There is not enough research on aas/ph on cellular mutation and the lasting effects - does it alter DNA struture overall (think spiderman)? - certainly not that drastic but either way it's just not natural - again I don't care what people do just don't sit there/enter shows that are meant for the true natural athlete or preach how getting this big is easy if you eat the right stuff yet - didnt' get to that size unassisited.

**kenney** · 07-21-2006, 12:58 PM

natural bodybuilding is when steroids,prohormones testosterone boosters etc arent used.carbohydrate,protein etc supplements are ok because they are just increasing the consumption of that nutrient,not playing god.

**kenney** · 07-21-2006, 01:02 PM

the right and wrong drugs/enhanchers should be according to the rules of a particular competition,not personal morals or opinions

david4zero8 · 07-26-2006, 02:43 PM

How do you guys feel about products like ATD and AI's. To me, things of that nature, including natural legal test boosters, would be considered natural. Pro hormones, AAS, GH, slin, i wouldnt consider those natural.

**str8flexed** · 07-26-2006, 03:55 PM

to me that's pretty boarderline, i just can't see how inhibition of aromataze is natural but then again I see the need for it as some people just naturally have gyno. what is an ATD though?

-Layne "behind the times"

david4zero8 · 07-26-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by str8flexed

to me that's pretty boarderline, i just can't see how inhibition of aromataze is natural but then again I see the need for it as some people just naturally have gyno. what is an ATD though?

-Layne "behind the times"

ATD, also known as ADT, is also an AI. I believe you've heard of the orginal Rebound XT from Designer Supplements. That was a pure ATD product.

hicktown · 07-26-2006, 10:30 PM

no prohormones or aas

Evolution 2006 · 07-27-2006, 10:49 AM

I think that anyone who is natural for at least 5 -7 years should be allowed to compete, that means not using AAS, GH, Insulin, and pro-hormones

jampsifit · 07-27-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david4zero8

How do you guys feel about products like ATD and AI's. To me, things of that nature, including natural legal test boosters, would be considered natural. Pro hormones, AAS, GH, slin, i wouldnt consider those natural.

Well....not according to these guys...

theocbwebsite.com/BannedSubstances. htm

(p.s. i put spaces inbetween since i can't post links for now....)

ATD/ADT just got on the list recently, soooooooooo if u've used it thennnnn u've already lost ur natural virginity.....or if you do so after december of this year. I think thats when it goes into effect. So now i guess the only other thing would be 6 oxo, which is supposedly from a natural source (someone wanna verify this?).

I wonder how many federations are gonna follow this trend of banning the atd'z.