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Old 08-02-2006, 02:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed
that's a tough call. i'm a lifetime drug free guy and ideally that's how all natural shows would be. However, I understand sometimes guys feel they made mistakes when they were younger and in my mind if they've been clean like 5-7 years, then I think that shows a genuine commitment to natural bodybuilding... sort of like a born again virgin lol. Some feds out there only have a 1 or 3 year drug free requirement and I think that's a little light. And then you have feds like musclemania.... where drug free is more of a suggestion than a requirement.

-Layne
Tough yes.

Here's my history.

- Did a test cycle 15 years ago after a BB comp.
- Took 3 - 4 years off, ummm damnn.
- Over the next couple of years I played around with working-out.
- Back and shoulder injury put me out for 9 months.
- Started again 3 years ago.
- At the urging of a friend I tried "this awesome supp" M1T!!!!!
- Did it 4 times before I realized it was poison (For gods sake educate yourself!)

So for the past 10 months I've been detoxifying and getting back into shape. I started M1 at 235 and now I'm back to 235.

My goal is to do a natty show next year. However, I still feel uneasy about my M1T experience last year.

It'll be 1 .5 years since the M1 experience at contest time.

Opinions
 
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:32 PM   #32
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More of a suggestion than a requirement is so true, Most of the natural body builders I have met are taking orals all year and then banging GH right before the contests, it is a joke. I still can't condemn them though. Do whatcha like.
 
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jampsifit
Well....not according to these guys...

theocbwebsite.com/BannedSubstances. htm

(p.s. i put spaces inbetween since i can't post links for now....)

ATD/ADT just got on the list recently, soooooooooo if u've used it thennnnn u've already lost ur natural virginity.....or if you do so after december of this year. I think thats when it goes into effect. So now i guess the only other thing would be 6 oxo, which is supposedly from a natural source (someone wanna verify this?).

I wonder how many federations are gonna follow this trend of banning the atd'z.

So you are natural until you take a newly banned product. You could have taken horse loads of a drug up until the ban, but as long as you switch to something else you are fine.

I guess until it's banned you might as well get as much growth from it as you can.
 
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:26 AM   #34
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i don't see it that way. you should be true to yourself & your own ethical standards
 
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:01 AM   #35
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:) I was waiting for that response str8flexed, good on ya.

After my M1T fiasco I'm scared to touch anything.

Anybody know if products like Ecdysterone( think Scivations Anagen) or Ipriflavone (think Universal Animal M-Stak) are acceptable?
 
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:08 PM   #36
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those are fine. not banned by any org
 
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed
those are fine. not banned by any org
Thanks.

God it's nice to have finally found a natty focused forum.
 
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:32 PM   #38
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Natural - n - produced or existing in nature; not manufactured

so, if the body or nature can produce it, then, isnt that natural?...
 
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Old 08-12-2006, 12:03 PM   #39
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i beleive that natural is not putting any synthetic version of anything in your body.
ex)steroids are synthetic forms of test., tribulas is herbal and does not supress your natural test like steroids do. so i beleive tribulas,whey,creatine,bcaa's, even the growth hormone products out there in stores, its a whole different ball game when you get the real thing.
 
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Old 08-14-2006, 03:46 PM   #40
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I believe that as long as nothing you take shuts your natural production of test down, there is really nothing wrong with it. If a BB wants to take a "plant extract" supplement, I don't believe there is anything unatural about it.
 
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:09 PM   #41
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To me natrual is anything you can get "over the counter" and legal is ok. So any supps you buy from the store or online are fine, even though in my opinion most supps suck. Training and proper overall calorie intake is the key.
 
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:05 AM   #42
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what would you say about the legal steroids that can be bought over the counter... these are full blown steroids. would you say they are natural?
 
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:06 AM   #43
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You have to do your research, or ask the right people, to stay natural. It's a game of rulings when you are trying to take borderline products, only to have a fedration rule them banned.

If you were to follow the guidlines to the letter, then in reality you would be able to indulge in the borderline products until they are put on a list. However, you'd still have to deal with the threat of sides.

There's politics as well. The debate with ephedrine, legal here and not there. Here in Canada I can't even get DHEA - now a banned substance. So a federations natrual guidelines in one country would cause you to fail in another.

For me natural means no AAS or Pro-Hormones. If you have to do Post Cycle Therapy for a product then you should just stay away.
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:26 AM   #44
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good & insightful post
 
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed
what would you say about the legal steroids that can be bought over the counter... these are full blown steroids. would you say they are natural?
No I don't think steroids are natural. I don't mean to split hairs and I don't know bodybuilding contest rules (I've never competed). I just mean whatever stuff a normal guy would use... food, weights, sleep, vitamins, creatine, etc... I guess products/techniques that create optimum results without "twisting mother nature's arm." :)
 
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:25 PM   #46
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ok i only asked because some legal steroids are available over the counter
 
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Old 08-23-2006, 06:24 PM   #47
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That amazes me! I had no idea you could get that stuff over the counter. Then again, I've never been interested enough to really find out.
 
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Old 08-23-2006, 06:28 PM   #48
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my dad is considering taking steroids and i was wondering...what are the main side effects?
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:22 PM   #49
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depends upon the steroid used but in general

-decreased natural testosterone production
-testicle shrinkage
-reduced HDL (good cholesterol)
-increased LDL
-insulin insensitivity (over time)
-increased risk of heart disease (long term usage)
-orals are very hard on the liver
-acne


other's can add anything I missed
 
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Old 08-24-2006, 06:58 AM   #50
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thanks
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:26 AM   #51
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Like anything it's dependant upon your usage. If he decides to do it on his own and learn from his mistakes there is the very real possibility of damage. I know guys that have juiced for years upon years and have no ill effects at all, well visible or known to them anyway. Some people play with knives and never get hurt, and then you have the newbies who jump right in.

Just tell him to be careful and educate himself first. Decisions without the education are a dangerous thing.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8flexed
what would you say about the legal steroids that can be bought over the counter... these are full blown steroids. would you say they are natural?
Hey Layne, this rocks that you have your own sub-forum over here. I didn't know about it until just now and I immediately joined. I've lurked on this forum from time to time but now I'll be a regular.

So, on this topic... I do think someone can become a reborn natural by staying off the androgens for long enough to lose the drug-induced gains. I know it is debated, but I believe that the body cannot maintain unnatural gains for an extended period of time without continual use of exogenous hormones. Your genetics decide the maximal amount of muscle tissue your body can naturally support and this will eventually return to baseline upon cessastion of steriod use. Does the return to baseline take 5-7 years though? Obviously, the time it takes to become a truly reborn natural would depend on what steroids you've taken, how much, and for how long. If someone is carrying 50 lbs of drug-induced mass, they'll obviously catabolize the tissue more slowly than someone only carrying 5 lbs.

For me, this is a personal issue because I made a decision, which I now regret, to run a standalone cycle of prostanazol back in the early months of this year, just after the compound was added to WADA's banned list. Now, prostanazol is the mildest of the mild OTC steroids, many people would say a complete waste of time to run solo. I did it because I wanted to test the waters before doing anything more 'hardcore' and I was never planning on competing at the time. I had myself convinced that I was too old to reach my full potential without gear... too old at 32!!! Now, I realize I was guilty of impatience and of having a complete lack of faith in myself.

So I played with prostanazol and I accept the consequences... I cannot compete in tested shows for another 4.5 years, at least. I accept that. I knew what I was doing and the ramifications. Still, it is just a little frustrating that someone injecting 750 mg of test weekly and running cycles for years and years could have quit using gear the same day I finished my prostanazol cycle and therefore qualify to compete naturally on the same day as I. I don't even believe I retained any of the extremely modest gains I got while on prostanazol... even stanazol (winstrol) is not known for building a lot of mass, it is primarily used during cutting, and prostanazol is a much less bioavailable derivative of stanazol. Honestly, I had better gains from running Designer Supplements NHA stack.

While it is frustrating, I accept that orgs are not going to draw fine lines, but rather use broad strokes to keep the playing field as level as possible. Like I said, I knew what I was doing so crying about it ain't going to do me any good. I'm only 32... well, almost 33 and I will use the next 5 years to hone my physique to a level where I can immediately be a serious competitor when I do hit the natural scene. I will probably do a couple of musclemania or NPC shows in 3-4 years to gain some contest experience. That's my story... I lost the right to say I am a lifetime natural, but I am dedicated to natty training from here on out.

Damn, my first post on this board and I wrote a friggin' three volume autobiography. I hope I wasn't too verbose. I type fast...
 
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Old 08-26-2006, 03:06 AM   #53
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good post and I agree, though i've never taken anything, i believe those that have should still have the right to compete naturally so long as they make the commitment to stay natural for an extended period of time.

-Layne
 
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Old 08-26-2006, 07:04 AM   #54
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great post.enjoyed reading your story
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:54 PM   #55
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Just protein, creatine and other supplements without the help of steroids and with out of this world workouts to achieve results.
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Old 09-30-2006, 09:00 PM   #56
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Natural 2 me means
TRAIN HARD
EAT WELL...(DIET HEAVY IN PROTEIN)
No steroids or growth enhancing drugs just what u put in an what u get out !!!
 
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Old 10-03-2006, 04:59 PM   #57
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I don`t think there is anything difficult about defining who is natural or not ?

Surely you are natural if you choose not to take any banned substances on the IOC list or any chemical where you percieve that you are obtaining an advantage dishonestly !!

So eat well, pour protein shakes down your neck and try creatine etc but that about it !

Yours Dave ( ive posted a recent photo on the other thread !)
 
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:25 AM   #58
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What are your feelings on nitric oxide and L-Arginine (aka hemodialator supplements)?
 
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:03 PM   #59
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lol, if you don't consider those natural then i certainly wouldn't qualify lol
 
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:53 PM   #60
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haha i do, just curious to see what others take on it is.
 
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