[dieseld]

ok, not really

i have lots of friends, some close friends that juice and i still cant figure why someone would juice. Is it worth possibly taking years off your life to look a few % better only for a few months?? i understand modern steriods are somewhat more safe than older ones, but research shows that steriods permanently harden blood vessels close to the heart, which will lead to problems later if something else doesnt kill ya...so its safe to say if you've done even one cycle of steriods the risk of heart problems later is much more probable

btw, this thread is for me to understand what exactly goes through someones mind to take such a risk
An issue i would personally have is the way i would feel about myself...everyone does it did, before you take a shower, while your passing a mirror with your shirt off, we look at ourselves, right? to me, if i were on roids that image would be fake and id feel like i cheated b/c i needed to use drugs to achieve my goal, sure id look better, but it isnt me thats doing it, its the drugs...and ever time i would see that image i would think, hell, anyone can stick a needle in their ass

and i hope no one compares supplements as a lesser form of steriods...not even close...i know guys that have taken 1 cycle of d-bol and test and gained a solid 30-45lbs and only worked out once a week! supplements?? yeah
also, do any of you guys think your fooling anyone? one month your 40lbs heavier and soft, the next month you ripped and vascular...hmmm, must be the creatine that he's on...

and my biggest complaint...what is up with all these dudes that take roids(even admit it) and are still smaller than natural guys like myself?!?!?!? how does that even happen?...it really blows my mind..

alright guys, i wanna hear what you have to say, like i said im not blasting you for your decision, just wanna understand why the risk is sooooo important...im a pretty hardcore natural that wants to know

[mmorpheuss]

Your buddies that have done AAS have kept you relatively misinformed friend.

40 pounds in one cycle? Worked out once a week? If you are claiming the majority of this was muscle or that they kept it, I call BS. Seriously.

Which brings me to why so many AAS users are smaller than you:

Drugs are their crutch. They do not and probably will never give proper credit and priority to diet and training principles. The few individuals that are successful in chemical enhancement know that they are getting just a small percentage of a boost from it. Just enough to hopefully put them where they want to be one day.

I applaud you for your choice, and the fact that you have worked your way past all of the magic pills and fallacies to find out how to obtain real results.
The ironic part is that it is those with your mindset that are the most successful in using AAS. The rest stay entrenched in mediocrity because they never come to grips with the principles that you have already learned.

[dieseld]

Originally Posted by mmorpheuss

40 pounds in one cycle? Worked out once a week? If you are claiming the majority of this was muscle or that they kept it..

it does sounds unbelievable...i know, and im really not sure exactly how many lbs he put on, but it was alot, he's back, chest and arms just blew the hell up...no, he didnt keep the muscle either, put for a short time it was pretty insane...i just remember my friends saying "now imagine if YOU got on gear!!" b/c i couldnt believe how much mass he packed on with his lazy efforts...he's like alot of other roidheads now, when he's on a cycle, he's in the gym, but if he's off cycle he wont even say hello in the grocery store, i saw him a few weeks ago and he scurried away like a little squirrel

[ajdos]

I can tell you my personal reasons for my decision.

I trained 12 yrs natural, not including pro-hormones, which back then were'nt nearly as good as now.
I knew that @ 265 lbs natural, that I was probably carrying about as much bdywt as I could w/o juice. My bdy comp was not good either, and I knew that if I wanted to compete that I would need an edge in that dept too.
What really made me realize that it was time to hit it was, I got injured, and I realized that my body no longer had the capability to tolerate the intense style of training I was doing, if I wanted to continue 'juice' was gonna be part of the program.
I also had freinds who used, so I asked them their opinions, and hit them up for their knowledge. I went to boards, asked questions, read as much as I could, and made the best 'informed' decision I could.

As far as the health risk, well I don't like taking the health risks. At the same time I would like to go pro someday (far-off), so they are a means to an end.
I guess that my philosophy is one of protracted suicide to the outside observer, but in reality, we all have unhealthy vices. I work in a Nutritional Store and I never cease to be amazed by what people consume and put into their bodies, rec-drugs, alchohol, fast food, smoking, all things PROVEN to kill you much faster than steroids. They live terrible lifestyles, they are overweight, lazy, undisciplined, etc, etc...
My point is, no-one lives a pristine lifestyle, we all will eventually die by some cause, you could walk out your door and get hit by a car 5min from now, wether you took juice or not will have no bearing on that. The philosophy of if you avoid everything bad in life you can live a nice long life is a delusion. You could do everything right and go to the doctor next week w/ an inoperable, malignant tumor in your brain, there are jsut no guarantees in life.
So I decided to go after my dream, cuz I am only gonna get once chance, I don't want to play it safe-the winners in life are the risk takers. I am not saying anything bad about playing it safe, but there are certain calculated risks that we must all take, that is what life is about ultimately, wether it be juice or somethin else.
I hope that sheds some light on the subject, and I am in no way shape or form trying to convince you that juice is ok. If I could get where I want to go w/o it I would drop it right this minute.

[dieseld]

ajdos, i can tell by your post that your a dedicated dude, 12 years natural... much props.

i read through your post and yeah, i realize their are risks to life, i spent about 1 year in iraq so i have some idea about it...one minute your alive and breathing, the next your dead. thats how serious it is over there...so im not some guy that goes around just worrying about every little thing

in retrospect, i feel that im just as dedicated as anyone else in the sport, steriods or not, when i wake up in the morning, every decision i make has to do with being a bb, i love it... have i ever thought about using gear? yeah. have i been excused of using it anyways? yeah, right to my face. but like i said in my original post, personally i would feel i have cheated myself and thrown away my training...so im also taking a risk, that'll never be as big as some of you guys using gear, but thats a risk that im willing to take

[ajdos]

I understand.

I would like to say thankyou for serving your country by the way.

I reiterate that I in no way condone steroid use for others, I just wanted to give you some insight into my personal thought about my perspective and approach.
I completely respect your integrity and decision to not juice.

[dieseld]

Originally Posted by ajdos

I understand.

I would like to say thankyou for serving your country by the way.

I reiterate that I in no way condone steroid use for others, I just wanted to give you some insight into my personal thought about my perspective and approach.
I completely respect your integrity and decision to not juice.

thanks, you gave me a different insight through your personal decision.

you've paid your dues, unlike so many punks that workout for only 1 year and decide to juice...thats just lazy imo

thanks again

[vin.diesel]

What are the long term risks you speak of? Where are any studies proving there are long term risks with intelligent steroid use? Hardening of arteries? Yes, that's linked to a rise in cholesterol. One can easily control and monitor cholesterol levels and thusly that becomes much less of a concern.

Many, many people have been on HRT for 30+ years and have had no issues. i will not be naive enough to say that there are no long term effects, especially with misuse. Misusing anything, alcohol, tylenol, cocaine, etc will get you dead pretty fast. Taking 2 grams of test a week for years is probably not a good thing. However, continuous monitoring of your bloodwork, proper cycling on and off, and running intelligent doses has proven to be quite safe time and time again for many people. Keep in mind one should of course, be a healthy male, free of any issues going into AAS use.

Why would one use steroids? For many of us, they give us more energy, more self-confidence, and of course, provide us the lift we need in the gym, which is what most of us really want and enjoy. Moving forward from that, yes, you can lose a lot of your gains post cycle, but that's where it comes back to INTELLIGENT use with plenty of research. With a proper PCT, little loss of lean mass can be achieved regularly. Simply stopping AAS usage and doing nothing to help your body recover, well, yes, that's just asking for muscle loss.

[dieseld]

Originally Posted by vin.diesel

What are the long term risks you speak of? Where are any studies proving there are long term risks with intelligent steroid use? Hardening of arteries? Yes, that's linked to a rise in cholesterol. .

their was a special on steriod use on TV a few months ago, and a doc was saying that even one cycle causes a permanent hardening of the arteries close to heart. he was saying that the good cholesterol was lowered(HDL i think) while on a cycle, but even after the cycle the arteries dont fully recover and the more cycles the worse, obviously...i dont think this gonna kill anyone tomorrow or anything, but i do think it does shorten your life, but then again, who really wants to live to 100 years

[vin.diesel]

Originally Posted by dieseld

their was a special on steriod use on TV a few months ago, and a doc was saying that even one cycle causes a permanent hardening of the arteries close to heart. he was saying that the good cholesterol was lowered(HDL i think) while on a cycle, but even after the cycle the arteries dont fully recover and the more cycles the worse, obviously...i dont think this gonna kill anyone tomorrow or anything, but i do think it does shorten your life, but then again, who really wants to live to 100 years

Interesting. Everything I've read states that because we don't quite handle synthetic test as well as natural test, we do have some cholestorol increases and that's what causes artery hardening. Might have to research that more.

[Knuckles]

taking steroids is a conscious choice that is made to achieve something you wouldnt without it. Not all of us have optimal genetics. Most of the guys who have already replied have already handled this so well it is difficult to add to. I will say that I think its kinda lame and disrespectful to refer to the usage of steroids as cheating, when it is no way near that. It is a tool to elevate u to another level, without hard work and discipline, u wont get to that level with or without drugs. I wouldnt expect u to understand, u have never taken them, so how would u (really)? Some people dont even have much of a response to steroid use (u may not either). Props to you for stayin natural, but when u realize ur falling flat with soooo much effort, the gear starts looking better and better. I used to think the way u do, b4 I educated myself. Now, I have tons of respect for guys who know how to use and can yield great results from gear. This post shows ur interested to a certain degree and I would not be surprised if you end up trying a cycle or two, despite what u say ur stance is now.

[vin.diesel]

Originally Posted by Knuckles

taking steroids is a conscious choice that is made to achieve something you wouldnt without it. Not all of us have optimal genetics. Most of the guys who have already replied have already handled this so well it is difficult to add to. I will say that I think its kinda lame and disrespectful to refer to the usage of steroids as cheating, when it is no way near that. It is a tool to elevate u to another level, without hard work and discipline, u wont get to that lev