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Old 06-29-2006, 04:23 AM   #151
jornT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen
Suffering is the result of human sin. The world is not the way that God created it and because of that, all are vulnerable to the affects of sin in the world. Why does one person suffer and another does not? Why do catastrophes happen to some and no others? It is because sin is in the world. But there will come a day when the Lord will return and cleanse this world of all sin and all suffering.
Huh? I still don't get it. Suffering is the result of human sin, I can follow that one. But because of someones sin, some INNOCENT other has to suffer?

Is that justice, is that true love?
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 06:58 AM   #152
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Hi, my name is earl







































Kill this thread already!!!
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:52 AM   #153
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Some phrases:

1) I don't think we have to be virgins till we got married. I only went to bed with my girlfriend, I love she more than anybody in this world, and we are not married. Being married (in future, we will) will not make me love her more than I do.

2) Also, I don't think alcohol is bad just for being alcohol. Alcohol is bad if you are alcoholic then you're ill, and you should get into a treatment.

3) Being Christian is this: Love God over all and love other people like you love yourself.

jonT I appreciate you so much but mate, try to be not THAT ironical... some of us may not like it...

We can argument without that. Tnx.
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:55 AM   #154
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I love poon!
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:46 AM   #155
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Huh? I still don't get it. Suffering is the result of human sin, I can follow that one. But because of someones sin, some INNOCENT other has to suffer?

Is that justice, is that true love?
Jorn, what you are exemplifying here is known as the Problem of Evil. James Rachels discusses the Problem of Evil in his book Problems from Philosophy: The Problem of Evil asks if there is in fact an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good God, then how can there be evil in the world? (because if God were in fact all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good, then he would want to stop evil, he would be able to stop evil, and he would stop evil). There are several responses offered as to why God would allow evil to exist in the world (in the example that you give above, the evil would be someone suffering due to someone else's actions.)
1. One response states that moral evil (people making "evil" decisions or committing "evil" actions such as rape, murder, and war) is the result of human free will. Let's assume for a second that God does exist. God could have created a world in which all humans were like robots, a world in which we were not capable of making evil decisions. Instead, God decided to give us free will because a world in which we choose to "move toward" God on our own is better than a world in which we are simply programmed to automatically "move toward" him. So God gave us free will and therefore the POSSIBILITY to live in a world that is better than a world in which we cannot make our own decisions, but this free will allows us to make evil decisions as well- and they are indeed our decisions, not God's decisions.
2. Another response to the Problem of Evil addresses what is known as natural evil (as opposed to the moral evil addressed above.) You might wonder how there can be a God who allows all the terrible natural disasters in the world to happen. How can there be a perfect God who allows hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, and tsunamis to kill thousands of people? One suggestion proposes that evil is necessary for the development of moral character. Let's assume again for a second that God does exist. God could have created a world in which everything works perfectly- everyone has enough to eat because all of the trees bear fruit, there are no natural disasters, and there is perfect weather all the time. This world may sound good, and if God is perfect, then why wouldn't he create this world for us? Because if a world like this did exist, then humans would have no way to develop their moral characters. There would be no such thing as courage, because there would be no dangers to face. There would be no such thing as helpfulness or generosity because no one would need help. All of the other virtues- kindness, compassion, perseverance, and creativity- would not exist, because there would be no adversity to overcome. So it is possible that God created these natural evils and permits them to exist to allow us to develop the different qualities that make up our moral character.

Remember that these two possibilities are only suggestions as to why God might allow evil to exist in the world- no one could possibly know for sure how the mind of God works.
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:47 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornT
Huh? I still don't get it. Suffering is the result of human sin, I can follow that one. But because of someones sin, some INNOCENT other has to suffer?

Is that justice, is that true love?
Thats the whole idea Jorno,the world is not how God intened it, so the world is iunjust, bc it has been corrupted by sin, thats why their are such thngs as starvation and suffering.
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:49 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
possibly
yes?
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:18 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipath1687
Jorn, what you are exemplifying here is known as the Problem of Evil. James Rachels discusses the Problem of Evil in his book Problems from Philosophy: The Problem of Evil asks if there is in fact an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good God, then how can there be evil in the world? (because if God were in fact all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good, then he would want to stop evil, he would be able to stop evil, and he would stop evil). There are several responses offered as to why God would allow evil to exist in the world (in the example that you give above, the evil would be someone suffering due to someone else's actions.)
1. One response states that moral evil (people making "evil" decisions or committing "evil" actions such as rape, murder, and war) is the result of human free will. Let's assume for a second that God does exist. God could have created a world in which all humans were like robots, a world in which we were not capable of making evil decisions. Instead, God decided to give us free will because a world in which we choose to "move toward" God on our own is better than a world in which we are simply programmed to automatically "move toward" him. So God gave us free will and therefore the POSSIBILITY to live in a world that is better than a world in which we cannot make our own decisions, but this free will allows us to make evil decisions as well- and they are indeed our decisions, not God's decisions.
2. Another response to the Problem of Evil addresses what is known as natural evil (as opposed to the moral evil addressed above.) You might wonder how there can be a God who allows all the terrible natural disasters in the world to happen. How can there be a perfect God who allows hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, and tsunamis to kill thousands of people? One suggestion proposes that evil is necessary for the development of moral character. Let's assume again for a second that God does exist. God could have created a world in which everything works perfectly- everyone has enough to eat because all of the trees bear fruit, there are no natural disasters, and there is perfect weather all the time. This world may sound good, and if God is perfect, then why wouldn't he create this world for us? Because if a world like this did exist, then humans would have no way to develop their moral characters. There would be no such thing as courage, because there would be no dangers to face. There would be no such thing as helpfulness or generosity because no one would need help. All of the other virtues- kindness, compassion, perseverance, and creativity- would not exist, because there would be no adversity to overcome. So it is possible that God created these natural evils and permits them to exist to allow us to develop the different qualities that make up our moral character.

Remember that these two possibilities are only suggestions as to why God might allow evil to exist in the world- no one could possibly know for sure how the mind of God works.
I don't buy it.

moral evil: So it's more important for God that person x has a free will, even if person Y has to suffer from that. That's not justice.

nature evil: So it's more important for God that person x can play the hero by saving person Y in a tsunami, even if 4573486534358 innoncent persons have to die for that.

Be honest, that's a bit....werd?
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:21 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornT
I don't buy it.

moral evil: So it's more important for God that person x has a free will, even if person Y has to suffer from that. That's not justice.

nature evil: So it's more important for God that person x can play the hero by saving person Y in a tsunami, even if 4573486534358 innoncent persons have to die for that.

Be honest, that's a bit....werd?

aren't you done here???'
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:31 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robcardu
aren't you done here???'
LOL I love you.. lets be gay and have babies.. haha
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"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly.
AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES."


In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't.

Being a Christian is like being a pumpkin. God lifts you up, takes you in, and washes all the dirt off of you. He opens you up, touches you deep inside and scoops out all the yucky stuff, including the seeds of doubt, hate, greed, etc. Then He carves you a new smiling face and puts His light inside you to shine for all the world to see.
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:35 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornT
I don't buy it.

moral evil: So it's more important for God that person x has a free will, even if person Y has to suffer from that. That's not justice.


Be honest, that's a bit....werd?
The idea was that we use our free will to knowingly have a loving relationship with God. Thsi was Gods plan, but we as humans were tempted and fell to sin, theirfore we do sin, and break our realtionship with God in doing this. We ask for forgiveness, and are given it, but the point is God did not intend for us to use our free will to break his laws and sin, and "do it bc it feels good attitude." We are the reason their is suffering in the world, not because God gave us free will, but because we use our free will to sin.
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:38 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serbmarko
LOL I love you.. lets be gay and have babies.. haha




pm this man first

http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...er.php?u=11127
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:39 AM   #163
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