[jornT]

Originally Posted by serbmarko

Free will is a blessing and a curse. God has given all of us the absolute ability to makes choices in life. We have the ability to choose good or evil, right or wrong, self or others. Unfortunately, from the beginning of time, we have chosen evil quite often. Many argue that mankind is generally good. Actually, mankind is generally bad. Just look at history. Just look at small children (we don't have to teach them how to steal cookies or strike siblings).

Why did God give us free will then? Wouldn't it have been easier and nicer to create mankind as inherently good. Well, God's purpose with mankind is to have eternal fellowship with those who truly love Him. Therefore, to create us as inherently good robots, without the potential for the opposite character, evil, would not allow for true love. For only love that comes from a free choice of the will is TRUE LOVE. Voluntary choice is the key - love isn't genuine if there's no other option.

Why not?
If he's allmighty he could bless everyone with true love. Or he isn't allmight.

Remembers me of the saying:
If God is allmighy, can he create a Rock so heavy he can't lift it?

And don't I deserve True Love then? Just because he's such a moron with one crappy, boring ass book I don't deserve it?

He's pretty selective in his gifts then, what gives him the right to do that?
Once again, why doesn't he help people who are starving? Is that their own fould?

I've I ever met God and somehow had the oppertunity to him, I would do so. For all those people who suffered and weren't responsible for in in any reason.

Where's the justice in that? He doesn't exsist, but if he did, he would be a hypocrite.

[BigBen]

Originally Posted by jornT

So what are you saying?

If there's something we can't comprehend, God might be true?

Might be, but chances are agianst him. That, and he is the most boring mofo ever, not using his 'powers' for fun or heck not even to prevent all the harm in the world.

@bigben. You don't KNOW it's true. You have the right to believe so, I have the right to do not. But you certrainly don't know it's true.

About the moses story. They didn't prove it was true. They prove it was false. If there was an earthquake, those people couldn't walk miles through a sea, they would be rolling all over the floor (maybe laughing their ass off).

So don't try to twist the earthquake story in your advantage, but any objective intelligent and rational man wouldn't buy it for the reason above.

And if there's something as a Devil, let him take my sould right now. I give my worth that I won't resist if all pops up right now. I can imagine God doesn't appaear when you ask him, but the Devil has no moral, and would take a free soul anyday. Well I'm still typing, so nothing happend and won't....


And

This furthur proves my point that the devil does exsist. You dont believe in God and you chise to do what u want correct? Then the devil has succeeded with u. The devil HATES US AND HE HATES GOD! Simply for the fact that God made us. Lucifer was the most beautiful of all angels and he wanted man to worship him not God so God cast him down to hell. Rather u believe the story or not Jorn your living proof that infact the devil AND God do exsist.

as far as your posts doubting Gods power, amd why doesn't he use his power for this and that, bc God loves us, and he wants us to live by his rules. He loves us SO MUCH that he gives us free will and allows us to chose to not believ, thats the one thing God can't do bc he chose not to he loves us so much that he gives us the choice of not loving him back.


BUT in the end Jorn it is all about FAITH my friend, so u can choose t not believe in God our Father, but that my friend is a poor choice man. Living by Gods rules isn't easy, but it leads to a more fulfilling life. You should sit down and read the bible sometime, and read the book of JOB, t will tell u everything u need to know about your fellow man, and to this day its true, and can be lived by bro. You can uuse that book to better yourself, and better people around you, but thats not what your into im sure, bc a man of the devil is a man that is only concerned about himself.

Feel free to ask any questions about God or faith, and im sure me and serbmarko would be happy to field them for u, even oif u choose to be disrespectful about asking them.

[jornT]

Originally Posted by BigBen

This furthur proves my point that the devil does exsist. You dont believe in God and you chise to do what u want correct? Then the devil has succeeded with u. The devil HATES US AND HE HATES GOD! Simply for the fact that God made us. Lucifer was the most beautiful of all angels and he wanted man to worship him not God so god cast him down to hell. Rather u believe the story or not Jorn your living proof that infact the devil AND God do exsist.

as far as your posts doubting Gods power, amd why doesn't he use his power for this and that, bc God loves us, and he wants us to live by his rules. He loves us SO MUCH that he gives us free will and allows us to chose to not believ, thats the one thing God can't do bc he chose not to he loves us so much that he gives us the choice of not loving him back.


BUT in the end Jorn it is all about FAITH my friend, so u can choose t not believe in God our Father, but that my friend is a poor choice man. Living by Gods rules isn't easy, but it leads to a more fulfilling life. You should sit down and read the bible sometime, and read the book of JOB, t will tell u everything u need to know about your fellow man, and to this day its true, and can be lived by bro. You can uuse that book to better yourself, and better people around you, but thats not what your into im sure, bc a man of the devil is a man that is only concerned about himself.

Feel free to ask any questions about God or faith, and im sure me and serbmarko would be happy to field them for u, even oif u choose to be disrespectful about asking them.

I'm not proof. Don't use the word proof if don't know where to apply it.

My point still stand. People who are starving or whatver without it being their fault are not being helped with God, is that TRUE LOVE?

[BigBen]

Originally Posted by jornT

I'm not proof. Don't use the word proof if don't know where to apply it.

You are proof jorn, U believe that their is no God, that is what the devil wants. Your full of hate man, u dont have love for your fellow man unless their doing what u say even then its im right and your wrong.

[jornT]

Originally Posted by BigBen

You are proof jorn, U believe that their is no God, that is what the devil wants. Your full of hate man, u dont have love for your fellow man unless their doing what u say even then its im right and your wrong.

Proof is something that you can proof. You just made a random statement.

But then again, you do that on other subject aswell

[BigBen]

Originally Posted by jornT

Proof is something that you can proof. You just made a random statement.

But then again, you do that on other subject aswell

Yes u can prove God exsists, you know he exsists when u have the Love of God in your heart thats when u know and have proof that he exsists when u can feel him in your everyday life, and a person who doesn't believe in God will never know what that feeling is like. But your so prominatly atheist that your blinded by your own hatered for your fellow man. Do u get jelous, frusterated, or angry alot?

[serbmarko]

How much evil should be stopped?
The question of stopping evil means that if God is to stop evil, then He must stop all evil. This means that the murderer must be stopped along with the thief. But it also means that thinking evil, which is in rebellion against God, must also be stopped as well; that is, if all evil is to be stopped. Therefore, for God to stop evil and suffering may very well mean that He must remove the ability for people to freely choose what they want to do. So, if God is going to stop evil, is He required to stop all of it or just some of it? If only some of it, then the question would still stand. If He stops all of it, would we be free?

[serbmarko]

Just some more proof.. haha

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, aka ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


MORAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
(2) That all changed once I became christian.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, aka PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
(1) If reason exists then God exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) I define God to be X.
(2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
(2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) God is either necessary or unnecessary.
(2) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
(2) Only God could have made them so complex.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, aka TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
(2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

MORAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Person X, a well-known Atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF
(1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.
(2) I believe in God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NUMBERS
(1) Millions and millions of people believe in God.
(2) They can't all be wrong, can they?
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM INTERNET AUTHORITY
(1) There is a website that successfully argues for the existence of God.
(2) Here is the URL.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (II)
(1) God is love.
(2) Love is blind.
(3) Stevie Wonder is blind.
(4) Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM SMUGNESS
(1) God exists.
(2) I don't give a crap whether you believe it or not; I have better things to do than to try to convince you morons. LOL
(3) Therefore, God exists.

[serbmarko]

ARGUMENT FROM NONBELIEF
(1) The majority of the world's population are nonbelievers in Christianity.
(2) This is just what Satan intended.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

[serbmarko]

ARGUMENT FROM POST-DEATH EXPERIENCE
(1) Person X died an Atheist.
(2) He now realizes his mistake.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

[serbmarko]

ARGUMENT FROM INCOHERENT BABBLE
(1) See that person spazzing on the church floor babbling incoherently?
(2) That's how infinite wisdom reveals itself.
(3) Therefore, God exists.