[skywalker]

Originally Posted by Lineski367

Mattingly: "I still like him better than Steinbrenner..."

lol, classic, that episode was genius

[hypocrisy86]

Thats pretty messed up...

[Ghosting]

Originally Posted by TrueOutlaw

Bro 1st off i'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so there is no emotion in it for me, however i'm not stupid enough to deny that this guy is the greatest baseball player ever (period).

Im wondering how you can say that when he used AAS to get to where he is? How can you guys refer to him as a great when someone sitting right beside him could be great if he used AAS. Why is this guy referred to as great with AAS usage?
Was he great long before the AAS usage? Im asking because I dont know. Does anyones even know what the androgenic side of AAS can do to your strength?
Maintain his mass? There are always new AAS coming out to avoid detection. If BB is maintaining mass, he is staying one step ahead of the detection game. After he has been busted for AAS use and is still maintaining that size IS AAS use. To think otherwise is just naive.
I personally know a Baseball player that uses in the off-season. Im not saying BB is all AAS and no talent, but there is no question in my mind that AAS can boost someone from mediocre to great. Using AAS myself, I dont even question this.
Infact, I played football for my company and mid "season" I started a cycle of A-50. People I played before said I hit much harder, was more aggressive, and ran noticeably faster my skills improved in 2 weeks. Now I was over my potential skills taking AAS. Yet normally I would hardly be considered to have the level of talent/greatness I possessed off-cycle.

[robcardu]

Originally Posted by TrueOutlaw

Bro 1st off i'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so there is no emotion in it for me, however i'm not stupid enough to deny that this guy is the greatest baseball player ever (period).

Im wondering how you can say that when he used AAS to get to where he is? How can you guys refer to him as a great when someone sitting right beside him could be great if he used AAS. Why is this guy referred to as great with AAS usage?
Was he great long before the AAS usage? Im asking because I dont know. Does anyones even know what the androgenic side of AAS can do to your strength?
Maintain his mass? There are always new AAS coming out to avoid detection. If BB is maintaining mass, he is staying one step ahead of the detection game. After he has been busted for AAS use and is still maintaining that size IS AAS use. To think otherwise is just naive.
I personally know a Baseball player that uses in the off-season. Im not saying BB is all AAS and no talent, but there is no question in my mind that AAS can boost someone from mediocre to great. Using AAS myself, I dont even question this.
Infact, I played football for my company and mid "season" I started a cycle of A-50. People I played before said I hit much harder, was more aggressive, and ran noticeably faster my skills improved in 2 weeks. Now I was over my potential skills taking AAS. Yet normally I would hardly be considered to have the level of talent/greatness I possessed off-cycle.

[U-GOD]

You:"Barry Bonds is the GREATEST!"
Me:"No he isnt and heres why.."
You:"Yes he is!"

Ok this is getting old. Im going to refute your argument one last time then Im ignoring this thread alltogether.

Bonds is a great player, I have said that since the beginning. The media has been unfair to him, I have said that from the beginning. However, under no circumstances can Barry Bonds be considered the greatest from what we have seen so far. If he continues to improve and plays 5 more seasons at this level, I may have to take that back. The only real way to agrue if one player is better than the other is to compare them with the rest of their era. I will use Babe Ruth because... well... hes the Babe.

Babe Ruth was a god amongst men. In two separate seasons he hit more home runs than any team. He accounted for about 15 percent of homers in his league, Barry accounts for about 2 percent. He led the league in OBP 10 times and slugging 15 times. Bonds is no where close.

Keep in mind that Barry Bonds has taken 742 more at bats than Babe, which roughly equals an extra season and a half. Here are the pure numbers, no spin. Babe scored 2175 runs Bonds scored 2078 runs. Babe had 2873 hits Bonds had 2742. Babe had more triples, home runs and 400 more RBIs. Babe also struck out fewer times. He also has a better batting average. Some things that Barry has over Ruth are base on balls, doubles, and stolen bases since he was a speed demon earlier in his career. The funny thing is he hardly stole a base after the 1998 season even though his OBP had nearly doubled, but I digress. My point is, Barry Bonds is not the greatest player ever, maybe if he is lucky he will gain that status before his time is up. But from what we have seen of him so far, it is ridiculous to think otherwise. He is however a surefire Hall of Famer.

As for pitchers not throwing to him heres my stance on that. Blame the managers, not the pitchers. The manager on the fielding team sees that there is a runner is scoring position Barry is at the plate and Moises Alou is on deck. Moises Alou is no where near the caliber of player that Barry is so it only makes sense to pitch around him. Plus If the Giants were really commited to getting better they would convince Barry to give up some salary to get a decent player in there after him so he could get some more at bats, thus score more runs. You mention that I "obviously watch sports center" as if that somehow negates my point. I dont get my talking points from Stuart Scott thank you. Just so were clear, I do watch that show. Its a great way to catch up on sports. As for the drama, I dont pay attention to it.

This debate could last for hours. You obviously know a thing or two about ball man so dont get too upset about all this, we just seem to see things very differently. See you around the board.

[Flex]

Bonds playing 5 more years? I highly doubt he'll play more than one!

[jornT]

Originally Posted by TrueOutlaw

Bro 1st off i'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so there is no emotion in it for me, however i'm not stupid enough to deny that this guy is the greatest baseball player ever (period).

Im wondering how you can say that when he used AAS to get to where he is? How can you guys refer to him as a great when someone sitting right beside him could be great if he used AAS. Why is this guy referred to as great with AAS usage?
Was he great long before the AAS usage? Im asking because I dont know. Does anyones even know what the androgenic side of AAS can do to your strength?
Maintain his mass? There are always new AAS coming out to avoid detection. If BB is maintaining mass, he is staying one step ahead of the detection game. After he has been busted for AAS use and is still maintaining that size IS AAS use. To think otherwise is just naive.
I personally know a Baseball player that uses in the off-season. Im not saying BB is all AAS and no talent, but there is no question in my mind that AAS can boost someone from mediocre to great. Using AAS myself, I dont even question this.
Infact, I played football for my company and mid "season" I started a cycle of A-50. People I played before said I hit much harder, was more aggressive, and ran noticeably faster my skills improved in 2 weeks. Now I was over my potential skills taking AAS. Yet normally I would hardly be considered to have the level of talent/greatness I possessed off-cycle.