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8 months into building and disappointed - pls critique
Old 07-12-2009, 04:33 AM   #1
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Guys,

below some images, training and nutrition log - would you pls assist me. Clearly I do not have the DNA of a bodybuilder, still I'd like to add some muscles to my frame and maybe get leaner. You have already provided great advise to me - for which I thank you all - still I feel disappointed by the results after 8 months training. Please help:

1/ From the images below what would you estimate my BF% to be - lost faith in BIA and calipers
2/ considering the training log and images what muscle groups to focus on training (all :-) ?)
3/ am i maybe overtraining - little progress in mirror ?
4/ should I do some bulking / cutting - some hints on how to do this?

5'11" - 163 lbs - 36 yo

Much appreciated!



TRAINING LOG
------------

All exercises to be carried out one-after-another without any rest, only when all three exercises are carried out you can rest for 60 secs. Rep range 7-9. Weights remain equal for entire workout. First and

Third exercises are compound and second is isolation.

GIANT SET - DAY 1

Triceps (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Skull Crush 80 x 8
2. Close Grip Bench 130 x 8
3. Dip bodyweight (=165) x 8

Shoulders (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Standing DB rear 30 x 8 (maybe I could replace this with military push - although then I'd loose one exercise for rear shoulders)
2. Lat raise 16 x 8 (this burns like hell!)
3. Seated DB raise 45 x 8

Chest (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. DB Bench Press 65 x 8
2. DB inclined fLY 30 x 8
3. DB Decline 55 x 8


GIANT SET - DAY 2

Hamstrings (3 sets - 2 min rest)
1. Deadlift 290 x 8
2. Good morning 110 x 8
3. Machine assisted Ham-Glute (about 20 lbs of support) x 8

Traps (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Standing Shrugs w/ BB 230 x 8
2. Standing DB Row 50 x 8
3. DB Shrugs 90 x 8 (I need to get heavier DBs)

ABS (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. V-hip raise 35 x
2. Double Crunch 35 x
3. V-up 20 x

--- If I can walk the day after in the morning 50-60 minutes cross-country running ---

GIANT SET - DAY 3

Arms (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. DB reverse curl 22 x 8
2. BB wrist curl 105 x 8

Biceps (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. BB Curl 95 x 8
2. DB Incline curl 35 x 8
3. BB Preacher curl 95 x 8

Back (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Pullup bodyweight + 22lbs (190) x 8
2. Incline lat/trap raise 25 x 8
3. Single arm DB row 95 x 8


GIANT SET - DAY 4

Quads (3 sets - 2 min rest)
1. Squat 200 x 8
2. DB Lunge 45 x 8
3. Single leg Leg Press 120 x 8

Calves (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Standing in squat rack 450 x 8
2. Single-leg standing calf raise 90 x 8
3. squat rack (goofy stance) 450 x 8

Abs (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. V-raise
2. Crunch (but I might go for a crunch with a 90 db pressed against chest)
3. side crunch

--- If I can walk the day after in the morning 20-30 minutes HIIT ---

Warmup: 5 minutes of rope skipping and heavy-bag.
Workout duration: 50 minutes (without warmup)



NUTRITION LOG
-------------
6 Meals a day about 2200 cals - 200 grams protein

Breakfast
Weetabix (3 wavers)
whey protein (1 scoop)
skimmed milk (300g)

Snack
1 egg + 5 egg whites - fried
mixed salad (50g)

*training usually here*
Post-workout shake
Protein powder (1 scoop)
Waxy Maize (1 scoop)
Creating (1 tbsp)

Lunch
chicken breast
rice (50g)
mixed salad (50g)

Snack
EAS protein 30g bar
Banana

Dinner
chicken breast
rice (50g)
mixed salad (50g)

Pre-bed
Cottage cheese (50g) or Casein-protein (1 scoop)
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:49 AM   #2
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First of all.What did you look like 8 months ago?
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:05 AM   #3
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Have you kept the same workout split for the last 8 months? Have you been able to make strength advancements in your big three lifts (squat, dead, bench)? Also 8 months isn't that long of a time as people think. Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it built in 8 months, and you will need time. But you are doing really good! Keep up your determination and attitude and you will get to be where you want to be!
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
Have you kept the same workout split for the last 8 months? Have you been able to make strength advancements in your big three lifts (squat, dead, bench)? Also 8 months isn't that long of a time as people think. Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it built in 8 months, and you will need time. But you are doing really good! Keep up your determination and attitude and you will get to be where you want to be!
Actually I started logging my training on 31 May 2008 (so that's 14 months - but quit for 2 months - change of house, job, moving, new gym, blabla). Comparing to that I made progress:

Weight:
Down from 76 to 74kg (mind you I bulked and was 83 kg in Jan/09) - however when cutting I also lost too much muscle, according to my Tania BIA scales I am 8.0%BF (I would say 12% is more realistic - Accu-measure calipers say 15.7% which seems too high)

Strength (mind you I had a pyramid 2-split scheme) (all weights in kg = 2.2lbs)

Bench
THEN 30 x 20 - 50 x 7 - 60 x 7 - 65 x 5
NOW 65 x 8 - 65 x 8 - 65 x 8

Deadlift
THEN 50x15 - 70x7 - 80x7 - 90x5
NOW 130x8 - 130x8 - 130x8

Pullups
THEN 40x12 - 70x7 - 75x7 (machine latpull)
NOW 85x8 - 85x8 - 85x8 (freeweight; body weight + 12kg)

Preacher Curl
THEN 17x15 - 32x12 - 32x10 - 32x8
NOW 40x8 - 40x8 - 40x8

I have changed splits considerably - I started with a two-day split on pyramid; went to three-day split (4x12xweight equal) and now at 4-day split w/ giantsets (3x8xweight equal)

So; yes I made strength gains - although for all the effort and sweat not much to show at the beach - help?
 
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaboom View Post
First of all.What did you look like 8 months ago?
Hi Kaboom,
good question - I wish I had some photos - but I was bulking and at 83kg /183lbs with a 5'11" frame that was not a pretty sight :-).

Still what do you think - shall I quit and dedicate myself to running - seems to come much more natural to me anyway.
 
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csaba73 View Post
Actually I started logging my training on 31 May 2008 (so that's 14 months - but quit for 2 months - change of house, job, moving, new gym, blabla). Comparing to that I made progress:

Weight:
Down from 76 to 74kg (mind you I bulked and was 83 kg in Jan/09) - however when cutting I also lost too much muscle, according to my Tania BIA scales I am 8.0%BF (I would say 12% is more realistic - Accu-measure calipers say 15.7% which seems too high)

Strength (mind you I had a pyramid 2-split scheme) (all weights in kg = 2.2lbs)

Bench
THEN 30 x 20 - 50 x 7 - 60 x 7 - 65 x 5
NOW 65 x 8 - 65 x 8 - 65 x 8

Deadlift
THEN 50x15 - 70x7 - 80x7 - 90x5
NOW 130x8 - 130x8 - 130x8

Pullups
THEN 40x12 - 70x7 - 75x7 (machine latpull)
NOW 85x8 - 85x8 - 85x8 (freeweight; body weight + 12kg)

Preacher Curl
THEN 17x15 - 32x12 - 32x10 - 32x8
NOW 40x8 - 40x8 - 40x8

I have changed splits considerably - I started with a two-day split on pyramid; went to three-day split (4x12xweight equal) and now at 4-day split w/ giantsets (3x8xweight equal)

So; yes I made strength gains - although for all the effort and sweat not much to show at the beach - help?

Hey Csaba, bodybuilding takes a lifetime of hard work to have anything visible to show for it. I would recommend focusing on increasing your weights lifted in these lifts:
  • Bench Press
  • Dead Lift
  • Squat
  • Pull Ups
  • Dips (chest)
  • Barbell Rows
  • Military Press

Construct a four day workout split, and the other three days rest! You need time to recover! This is a decent workout split which I have been recommending to people:

Day 1: Upper Body (horizontal focus)
Bench Press
Row


Dip (chest)
Tricep Extension

Weak Point

Day 2: Lower Body (deadlift / hamstring dominant)
Deadlift
Good mornings

Shrugs

Core

Day 3: Upper Body (vertical focus)
Pull Ups
Military Press


Incline Press
Curls

Weak point

Day 4: Lower Body (squat / quad dominant)
Squat
Stiff Legged Deadlift


Leg Press

Core

The exercises in bold will be the focus of the workout, aim to increase weights in them by a certain percentage each month, a reasonable percent would be 5%, 10% would be too high. A common mistake (I did it too) was more is better, I would weight train 6 days a week with 1 day off. You need time to recover! And as far as not have anything to show for it at the beach, again that will take time. I would say give yourself three years of training and see where you are!

Good luck!
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:16 AM   #7
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Chimera,

this is awesome advise - thanks a lot. Just yesterday I had my last day of the giant-set cycle so I am ready to try your suggestion.

Do you mind correcting me if I got this wrong?


(three warm up sets - last set to failure as crash set,ie try 7 reps -pause 30sec- try 5 reps - pause 30sec - try 3 reps - finished)
(all weights in kg=2.2lbs)
(I am a bit surprised that there is only one exercise for biceps and chest - I also lack arms)

Day 1: Upper Body (horizontal focus)

DB Bench Press
20x15 - 25x10 - 27.5x5 - 30x7,5,3

(is one exercise for chest not too little?)

DB Row
30x15 - 35x10 - 40x5 - 45x7,5,3

Dip (chest) (this is more triceps than chest - no?)
BW=bodweight (74kg)
BWx15 - BW+10kgx10 - BW+20kgx5 - BW+25kgx7,5,3

Skull Crush (I CHANGED THIS FROM EXTENSIONS - WHAT DO YOU THINK?)
20x15 - 30x10 - 35x5 - 40x7,5,3


Weak Point
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN HERE?



Day 2: Lower Body (deadlift / hamstring dominant)

Deadlift
60x15 - 100x10 - 120x5 - 140x7,5,3

Good mornings
40x15 - 50x10 - 55x5 - 60x7,5,3

BB Shrugs
60x15 - 80x10 - 100x5 - 120x7,5,3

Core
WHAT DO YOU MEAN HERE - ABS?
Vertical ups 35 - 35 - 35
double cruch 35 - 35 - 35


Day 3: Upper Body (vertical focus)
Pull Ups
BWx15 - BW+10x10 - BW+20x5 - BW+25x7,5,3


DB Shoulder Press (instead of Military Press)
15x15 - 20x10 - 22.5x5 - 25x7,5,3


DB Incline Press
15x15 - 20x10 - 22.5x5 - 25x7,5,3


Curls (seated)
10x15 - 15x10 - 17.5x5 - 20x7,5,3

(only one exercise for biceps?)


Weak point
Again - what would this be


Day 4: Lower Body (squat / quad dominant)
Squat
60x15 - 80x10 - 90x5 - 95x7,5,3

Stiff Legged Deadlift / Do you mind I do Lunges instead?
15x15 - 17.5x10 - 20x5 - 25x7,5,3

Single-leg Leg Press
40x15 - 50x10 - 60x5 - 70x7,5,3


Core
Declined crunch with weight
25x15 - 30x10 - 40x5 - 45x7,5,3

Side 35 - 35 - 35
 
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:28 AM   #8
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While technically there is only one direct exercise for biceps and triceps, they will receive stimulation from other exercises as well (ie triceps are used in bench press, dips, and military press; while biceps are used in rows and pull ups).

I would recommend not training to failure every training session. It will take faith in you, but always training to failure is not going to be maximal for muscle growth. You want to stimulate your muscle fibers, not annihilate!

For rep rang, I would keep the first two exercises in a range of 5 - 8 reps, the next two in a higher rep range (maybe 8 - 12), and the last exercise (such as your weak point exercises) as high as 12 - 15 reps.

Dips (chest version) are a great chest exercise as well, make sure that you lean foreword and really feel it on your chest. Again, as only having 1 exercise for certain body parts in the workout; you will have to have faith that if you perform it correctly and progress your weight in it, that it will build your chest / back / whatever muscle as good as if not better than performing a vast majority of exercises.

For tricep extensions, the "meathead" word for it are skull crushers so we are both on the same page on that.

"Weak point" means any exercises which would work on a certain weak point for you. If your aim is bodybuilding, then it would bring up any lagging body parts in comparison to the rest of your body. Just as long as it fits into the work out (ie on day 1, it is a horizontal focused exercise) it is fine. I can't tell what you need to work on going off your avatar, so you will have to be a judge for that.

Core would be one exercise for your core, you wouldn't need two. For this, you won't need to worry about making any sort of progression in it. Going for a traditional bodybuilders pump would be acceptable.

Finally, I must give credit to where credit is due; and I saw JV recommending this split. I really enjoy it because it is keeps it simple, as people often try to make things complicated and switch exercises close to every week where they don't make any progression in it.

As one quote goes: "I fear not the man who has practiced a thousand kicks one time, but the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times."
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Last edited by JakeVendetta; 11-03-2009 at 02:57 PM..
 
 
Old 07-13-2009, 01:40 PM   #9
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bottom line bro 8 mos in natty bodybuilding is a painfully short time and one of the most discouraging having probably just finishing up your initial explosive gains. You are in for a long battle like the rest of us. On the plus side you look very muscular and lean.
 
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:52 PM   #10
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thanks man - you make me feel good! I needed this

ps great guns - took you more than 8 months I guess :-)
 
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Old 07-16-2009, 07:11 PM   #11
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hi mate, i dont no what you looked like 8months ago but you are looking good now bro. stick at it bodybuilding dosn't come easy but its worth it. keep training hard, eat right and over time your hard work will pay off. good look bro.
 
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by young guns jack View Post
hi mate, i dont no what you looked like 8months ago but you are looking good now bro. stick at it bodybuilding dosn't come easy but its worth it. keep training hard, eat right and over time your hard work will pay off. good look bro.
Thanks a lot young guns - much appreciated - indeed it is hard work!
 
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:37 AM   #13
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csaba, I too believe that for 8 months work you are looking pretty good! You are lean and can at least see that you have muscles! Also, for your size / leanness your weights seem quite good and it is obvious that you have been progressing in your lifts. I would say just keep doing what you're doing!

I would say though that if you want to gain size you maybe need to increase your calorie intake. 2200 kcals for a 5"11' person is not very much, especially with that volume of training. Maybe an extra 200-500 kcals would help the muscles grow a bit more?

Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Matt
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:06 AM   #14
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best advice i can give to some one who isn't as seasoned in the sport as some of us are, don't let time be a factor to you. even the best in the business haven't been at it for 8 months, they've been dedicated for years upon years. keep your chin up, you'll get to where you want to be.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csaba73 View Post
Guys,

below some images, training and nutrition log - would you pls assist me. Clearly I do not have the DNA of a bodybuilder, still I'd like to add some muscles to my frame and maybe get leaner. You have already provided great advise to me - for which I thank you all - still I feel disappointed by the results after 8 months training. Please help:

1/ From the images below what would you estimate my BF% to be - lost faith in BIA and calipers
2/ considering the training log and images what muscle groups to focus on training (all :-) ?)
3/ am i maybe overtraining - little progress in mirror ?
4/ should I do some bulking / cutting - some hints on how to do this?

5'11" - 163 lbs - 36 yo

Much appreciated!



TRAINING LOG
------------

All exercises to be carried out one-after-another without any rest, only when all three exercises are carried out you can rest for 60 secs. Rep range 7-9. Weights remain equal for entire workout. First and

Third exercises are compound and second is isolation.

GIANT SET - DAY 1

Triceps (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Skull Crush 80 x 8
2. Close Grip Bench 130 x 8
3. Dip bodyweight (=165) x 8

Shoulders (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Standing DB rear 30 x 8 (maybe I could replace this with military push - although then I'd loose one exercise for rear shoulders)
2. Lat raise 16 x 8 (this burns like hell!)
3. Seated DB raise 45 x 8

Chest (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. DB Bench Press 65 x 8
2. DB inclined fLY 30 x 8
3. DB Decline 55 x 8


GIANT SET - DAY 2

Hamstrings (3 sets - 2 min rest)
1. Deadlift 290 x 8
2. Good morning 110 x 8
3. Machine assisted Ham-Glute (about 20 lbs of support) x 8

Traps (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Standing Shrugs w/ BB 230 x 8
2. Standing DB Row 50 x 8
3. DB Shrugs 90 x 8 (I need to get heavier DBs)

ABS (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. V-hip raise 35 x
2. Double Crunch 35 x
3. V-up 20 x

--- If I can walk the day after in the morning 50-60 minutes cross-country running ---

GIANT SET - DAY 3

Arms (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. DB reverse curl 22 x 8
2. BB wrist curl 105 x 8

Biceps (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. BB Curl 95 x 8
2. DB Incline curl 35 x 8
3. BB Preacher curl 95 x 8

Back (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Pullup bodyweight + 22lbs (190) x 8
2. Incline lat/trap raise 25 x 8
3. Single arm DB row 95 x 8


GIANT SET - DAY 4

Quads (3 sets - 2 min rest)
1. Squat 200 x 8
2. DB Lunge 45 x 8
3. Single leg Leg Press 120 x 8

Calves (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. Standing in squat rack 450 x 8
2. Single-leg standing calf raise 90 x 8
3. squat rack (goofy stance) 450 x 8

Abs (3 sets - 1 min rest)
1. V-raise
2. Crunch (but I might go for a crunch with a 90 db pressed against chest)
3. side crunch

--- If I can walk the day after in the morning 20-30 minutes HIIT ---

Warmup: 5 minutes of rope skipping and heavy-bag.
Workout duration: 50 minutes (without warmup)



NUTRITION LOG
-------------
6 Meals a day about 2200 cals - 200 grams protein

Breakfast
Weetabix (3 wavers)
whey protein (1 scoop)
skimmed milk (300g)

Snack
1 egg + 5 egg whites - fried
mixed salad (50g)

*training usually here*
Post-workout shake
Protein powder (1 scoop)
Waxy Maize (1 scoop)
Creating (1 tbsp)

Lunch
chicken breast
rice (50g)
mixed salad (50g)

Snack
EAS protein 30g bar
Banana

Dinner
chicken breast
rice (50g)
mixed salad (50g)

Pre-bed
Cottage cheese (50g) or Casein-protein (1 scoop)



hi, much respect as i am 37 and its hard to e just startin out. i've trained forover 20years. you are making good progress. but i suggest if you dont mind me saying . i'd reduce the amount of training volume your doing. i did this and gained a lot more mass.. hope this helps.. keep pumpin mate.. take care
 
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:38 PM   #16
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best advice i can give is to cut your workout routine right back.. you'll never grow if your overtraining.. i was way too keen when i first started . i thought the more i trained the more i'dgrow.. i was wrong..the fact is less is more... i came on amazingly when i cut my workouts right down..this is even more a case if you are traing naturally. hope this helps..give it a go...
 
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